Man Charged With Killing Alleged Attacker

[Frandy]

If this is really the way it went down (and who knows yet...), then I say we're all in trouble if we defend ourselves...

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-brf-gay-attack,0,3985579,print.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

Man Charged With Killing Alleged Attacker
By Associated Press

November 8, 2005, 2:34 PM EST

PHILADELPHIA -- A young man was charged with stabbing to death one of four teenagers who allegedly attacked him and taunted him because he is gay.

Lucas Dawson, 21, is charged with voluntary manslaughter in the Oct. 29 death.

The four teens rushed the aspiring singer near his home after he crossed a street to avoid them, said his stepfather, David Dawson.

"One of them punched him in the mouth," David Dawson told the Philadelphia Daily News. "They knocked him to the ground. They kicked him. They stomped him. They called him faggot."

Lucas Dawson pulled out a small pocket knife and waved it at the teens to chase them away, David Dawson said. He then ran but was grabbed by Gerald Knight, 17, who was stabbed in the chest in a struggle, he said.

Lucas Dawson remains in jail in lieu of $30,000 bail. If convicted, he could face a maximum of 30 years in prison.

The day before the attack, Lucas Dawson had performed in front of the "American Idol" judges, his family said. He was cut after the third round.
Copyright 2005 Newsday Inc.

 

[R.H. Lee]

So, four guys jump him, give him a beatdown and he's looking at 30 years? *** is wrong in the City of Brotherly Love? Don't they have any real criminals to prosecute there?

 

[Standing Wolf]

I have to wonder whether he'd have been charged if he were straight.

 

[T. Bracker]

What???

 

[SomeKid]

PHILADELPHIA -- A young man was charged with stabbing to death one of four teenagers who allegedly attacked him and taunted him because he is gay.

One thing, about the boy who gives brotherly love in the city of the same..

Anyone wanna call him a fairy?

 

[sturmruger]

Unless they are leaving some major details out this sounds like an easily defensible case. If you ask me they should charge the other thugs with felony murder so they get what they deserve. I think the kid should get a good lawyer and not worry about it.

 

[Byron Quick]

Stuff like this happens, folks. A former employee of mine was pistol whipped in a bar. He was carrying. He had a permit but carrying in an establishment that serves alcohol is a no-no here in Georgia. Apparently our wise legislators believe that you shouldn't have the right of self defense if you sit down to drink a beer. Kenny spent 18 months in jail awaiting trial on a murder charge. He was never charged with carrying in a bar. The jury acquitted him. He still has a permit but I don't think he goes to bars anymore.

He's the man who convinced me to carry, as a matter of fact. We were going out collecting when I noticed him putting a revolver in his pocket. I asked him why and probably implied that I wished he wouldn't. He took his shirt and undershirt off. Showed me the bullet scars and truly amazing scars from the surgeries. Quietly told me that he was shot in the same neighborhood we were headed for while doing the same thing we were going for. Then he told me that either he was going armed or he wasn't going. We both walked out armed that day.

Crap like this can happen. However, even if it does, sure beats the alternative, doesn't it? I'll take legal troubles, lawyer fees, and bankruptcy over being dead any day.

 

[Colt46]

incidents such as this is what the ACLU should stand for.

Sadly, I seriously doubt they would try to defend a gay man that defended himself. They are more likely to get involved if he wasn't able to defend himself.

 

[Rockstar]

I don't, of course, know the details of Byron's friend's case, but do personally know of a case in which a guy was followed by four guys after he left a bar in central GA. Guy was on foot; others were in car. Two guys got out of the car and pushed the guy against a fence. He comes out with a blade and executes the first with a deft cut to the heart; nearly killed the other with a similarly-deft cut of the femoral artery. (Cutter is a surgical nurse; knew what he was doing.)

Cutter was not charged.

Nothing that happens in jurisdictions outside the Deep South would surprise me. Sounds like the gay guy exercised self-defense legally.

 

[Boss Spearman]

This is absurd. I guess I will never travel to Philadelphia.

 

[Kurush]

My understanding of PA law is that there is no way he can be convicted unless either he instigated the fight or he (from memory) "knew he could retreat in complete safety".

 

[Bob F.]

We're talking about Philly here, not PA. Philly is a cesspool unto itself as far as law goes. I must say I've never been there. I studiously avoid the cities of the Northeast, including DC. But it is my understanding, largely from THR, that the serfs of Philadelphia are subject to laws that preempt the state of PA.

Stay safe (go south).
Bob

 

[JohnKSa]

If the details in the story are correct, he did his best to get away but they chased him down.

I think he'll walk after the DA abuses him for awhile.

 

[GunGoBoom]

He should walk, of course. More importantly, should not have been charged at all. Yeah, where in the heck is the ACLU here - good question. PA self-defense laws are applied statewide, even if the idiot DA in philly charges - the law will protect him (after much expense, lost time & freedom, etc.). The jury and appeals process will make the DA look stupid, UNLESS the guy can't afford a good lawyer or gets a PD, in which case they might encourage him to plea down. Dang right the other thugs should be charge with felony murder - well IF what they did was a felony - if they used a deadly or dangerous weapon in the assault & batter, for instance.

 

[Geno]

In Dearborn, MI it is FLAT-out illegal to possess ANY knife in clothing, EVEN IF--

EVEN if you DO NOT LIVE THERE AND YOU ARE DRIVING THROUGH TOWN. You get stopped and discovered, your bottom goes to the pokey. Do they have such a law there too?

Frankly, I could care less if he's gay or straight. His loss. However, ALL human beings enjoy civil rights. He had to do what he had to do. This is an exellent example of what I say to my graduate students: America's schools aren't failing academically; they are failing us socially! So are the children's families and our politicians.

Doc2005

 

[Aguila Blanca]

We're talking about Philly here, not PA. Philly is a cesspool unto itself as far as law goes. I must say I've never been there. I studiously avoid the cities of the Northeast, including DC. But it is my understanding, largely from THR, that the serfs of Philadelphia are subject to laws that preempt the state of PA.

Stay safe (go south).
Bob

Actually, I believe PA state law preempts any municipal ordinances. The city of Philadephia keeps trying, and they keep getting shot down at the state level and/or in the courts.

 

[Jim K]

Just a counter to the idiotic idea that "I can kill someone and if I say it was self-defense, the cops will let me go with thanks, and the mayor will award me a medal." Sure.

Jim

 

[exoduster18]

I'm from PA and this scares me. Although I believe Philly is no longer part of PA!!
What happened to this city? It was such a key area in our fight for our independence. I don't who in the hell is pressing charges, but they are obviously in the pressing them in the wrong place. I know in the area I'm from that if its in self defense, you're off scot-free. I think these people are just looking to make a name for themselves. At least the man was armed......

 

[CraigJS]

What are Philly's laws on carrying knives? Could that be entering in here? Did the others say he started the confrontation? We don't have enough information here..

 

[orionengnr]

yeah, he probably started it...

one against four, gotta like them odds

sorry, couldn't resist...

 

[ExtremeDooty]

Stay safe (go south).

Or west. If you see the ocean you've gone too far and are about to get into trouble for .... something. Back up at least one state.

It sounds like he did all he could to avoid the conflict and defended himself only when cornered. It's a shame it'll cost him a small fortune to defend himself all over again.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Unless they are leaving some major details out this sounds like an easily defensible case. If you ask me they should charge the other thugs with felony murder so they get what they deserve. I think the kid should get a good lawyer and not worry about it.

By "they," who do you mean? From what I can tell, there is only one source cited and it is the stepfather. Of course he will claim that his son was defending himself and no doubt he is basing his information on what his stepson told him.

Given that the stepson is charged with voluntary manslaughter, I doubt the story portrayed by the stepfather matches information gathered by the police. While the stepson might have been detained until the cops could work out what happened, he would not have been charged unless there was evidence to suggest that the confrontation wasn't purely self defense.

What are Philly's laws on carrying knives? Could that be entering in here? Did the others say he started the confrontation? We don't have enough information here..

Could knife laws be entering here, assuming Philly has them? Not likely. It was not a weapons charge. Even if he carried an illegal knife or other weapon, such items would not negate his right to self defense, though he might suffer a weapons charge.

Think back to the last 3 or 4 years where there have been incidents in Chicago and New York City where bad guys, intruders, etc. were shot and killed by folks who had guns that didn't have permits for the guns. So the intended victims were justified in their use of lethal force and were not charged for the shooting, but suffered weapons charges.

 

[HankB]

Unless they are leaving some major details out this sounds like an easily defensible case. If you ask me they should charge the other thugs with felony murder so they get what they deserve. I think the kid should get a good lawyer and not worry about it.

A big "+1" to that.

 

[NineseveN]

Waiting on more info to come in, something doesn't smell nice in here.

 

[Rezin]

Yeah, Philly is a bit backwards in some areas, especially the 2a.... But I personally believe there is more to this than is being reported here.

4 attacking 1. He had every right to produce a weapon.

I carry in the city of Philly from time to time. I shudder to think that if I ever need to produce a weapon or God forbid, use it in Philly, I'm screwed legally.