How did the authorities discover what was in the safe in the first place? Was a search warrant issued? If so, why? Just because someone breaks into the guy's home and he shoot them, does not mean that the police can search every item in his home. He isn't the guilty party.
Man wants his $400K back from the FBI
- Thread starter LiquidTension
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GuyWithQuestions
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One time, back in the days of boy scouts, we went to a police station and they talked about gangs. They said that a lot of Asians from certain parts of Eastern Asia refuse to use bank accounts and certain gang members know this and try to steal it from them. Is it really correct to say that there aren't a lot of people who avoid banks?
Otahyoni
Member
There was a movie like this... I believe called "Simon Says"
One interesting thing is that i lived in Lima,OH for a year for college...
paintballdude902
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you know i read one time that 40% of americans dont trust banks
so is the FBI punishing people for not using banks now?
teh FBI is almsot as bad as the BATF
so is the FBI punishing people for not using banks now?
teh FBI is almsot as bad as the BATF
<shakes head in wonderment>
So many of you are laboring under the delusion that you can own property. Really...
Think about it a bit.
You can use property but you don't really own it. You rent it.
Don't pay your property taxes and you'll lose it.
Don't pay license fees/taxes on your car and you can't use it on public roads.
Many states (OK where I live until 10 years or so ago) have real property taxes. I used to get a bill from the state every year to pay a tax on what they thought I owned, tv's, stereos, furniture stuff like that). Don't pay the tax - guess what happens.
You don't even own the fruits of your labor. Looked at your latest paycheck lately? Who exactly is that FICA guy anyway?
Hells bells! You don't even own yourself. Suicide is illegal in all 50 states as far as I know.
So, the government comes in and wants the $400K you've got stashed in your safe - tough - you don't get to use it anymore.
Government wants the rubes to believe they can actually own stuff.
That's what they want you to believe. The reality is far different.
So many of you are laboring under the delusion that you can own property. Really...
Think about it a bit.
You can use property but you don't really own it. You rent it.
Don't pay your property taxes and you'll lose it.
Don't pay license fees/taxes on your car and you can't use it on public roads.
Many states (OK where I live until 10 years or so ago) have real property taxes. I used to get a bill from the state every year to pay a tax on what they thought I owned, tv's, stereos, furniture stuff like that). Don't pay the tax - guess what happens.
You don't even own the fruits of your labor. Looked at your latest paycheck lately? Who exactly is that FICA guy anyway?
Hells bells! You don't even own yourself. Suicide is illegal in all 50 states as far as I know.
So, the government comes in and wants the $400K you've got stashed in your safe - tough - you don't get to use it anymore.
Government wants the rubes to believe they can actually own stuff.
That's what they want you to believe. The reality is far different.
DDude
Member
^^^ This wins.
If Canada ever gets it's act together on the entire gun-rights issue I may go back someday. I was sold a bill of goods that the good ol' U S of A was the last bastian of Freedom and Liberty. But dammit, I hate snow and the cost of living in Victoria is high (but at least I'd be close to dear ol' Mom).
If Canada ever gets it's act together on the entire gun-rights issue I may go back someday. I was sold a bill of goods that the good ol' U S of A was the last bastian of Freedom and Liberty. But dammit, I hate snow and the cost of living in Victoria is high (but at least I'd be close to dear ol' Mom).
frogomatic
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I have really got to dig up that paper I wrote on the cause/effect relationship of the prohibition of things and crime/black market, and post it here.
Slugless
Member
Amen, brother.
My dad had to sell his paid-up house because the value had increased 5x and he couldn't afford the taxes. So much for his dream house.
I was late on a property tax payment on my land & woke up to the fact that I am just a renter.
The seizure laws are clearly unconstitutional. The only organization I know that is trying to protect our rights is the ACLU.
http://www.aclu.org/drugpolicy/forfeit/10837leg19970611.html
and finally
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_state
Officers'Wife
Member
Let the record reflect I made no comment...
Civil forfeiture
This is apparently a case of civil forfeiture. You can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forfeiture
He doesn't have to be charged with a crime, but the authorities do have to convince a judge that their claim is legitimate. Since it's a civil, rather than criminal matter, the standard of proof is a preponderance of the evidence, rather than "beyond a reasonable doubt". So, to get his money back, his evidence that it is legitimate must be greater than the government's evidence that it is ill-gotten.
(I am not a lawyer.)
This is apparently a case of civil forfeiture. You can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forfeiture
He doesn't have to be charged with a crime, but the authorities do have to convince a judge that their claim is legitimate. Since it's a civil, rather than criminal matter, the standard of proof is a preponderance of the evidence, rather than "beyond a reasonable doubt". So, to get his money back, his evidence that it is legitimate must be greater than the government's evidence that it is ill-gotten.
(I am not a lawyer.)
nerfsrule2
Member
Alex Jones was Right all along!!!
cassandrasdaddy
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"Hells bells! You don't even own yourself. Suicide is illegal in all 50 states as far as I know."
No
oregon
No
oregon
We keep voting the same people into office who keep putting in more and more of the same asinine laws in place, so what do you expect?
courts are there mostly to justify what government has already decided to do. once in a blue moon a judge will rule against government wishes, but generally they know which side of the bread is buttered.
courts are there mostly to justify what government has already decided to do. once in a blue moon a judge will rule against government wishes, but generally they know which side of the bread is buttered.
Aguila Blanca
Member
Fixed it for you ...Justin said:
alan
Member
Slugless:
In so far as the ACLU acting to protect individual rights, in some cases that is true, but they are strangely "selective". For instance, where and when has ACLU ever gone to bat in support of Individual Rights under the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution or the relevant portions of state constitutions.
What comes from ACLU re this is some mealy mouth rubbish about "collective rights" as I recall. Re Asset Forfeiture/CIVIL FORFEITURE, in plain English, that is a racket, that plainly amounts to THEFT UNDER COLOR OF LAW. End of story.
As to your father having to sell his house due to increases in propertty taxes, assuming that he recived 5x, a figure you mentioned, what he had in it, he might not have done badly at all. Of course the inconvenience of having to pack up and relocate is a bother, still financially, he might have done quite well.
In so far as the ACLU acting to protect individual rights, in some cases that is true, but they are strangely "selective". For instance, where and when has ACLU ever gone to bat in support of Individual Rights under the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution or the relevant portions of state constitutions.
What comes from ACLU re this is some mealy mouth rubbish about "collective rights" as I recall. Re Asset Forfeiture/CIVIL FORFEITURE, in plain English, that is a racket, that plainly amounts to THEFT UNDER COLOR OF LAW. End of story.
As to your father having to sell his house due to increases in propertty taxes, assuming that he recived 5x, a figure you mentioned, what he had in it, he might not have done badly at all. Of course the inconvenience of having to pack up and relocate is a bother, still financially, he might have done quite well.
atomchaser
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The local cops have a real incentive to do these kind of seizures down here in FL. They apparently rack up a bunch of "overtime" on a regular basis that the local government hasn't budgeted for and can't pay. Low and behold, when a windfall from one of these seizures comes along, part of the cash is used to pay this back "overtime". No wonder the cops always have such a big smile on their face when they luck into some idiot running drugs/cash on I-95.
siglite
Member
Exactly. Are we to presume guilt, or innocence?
alan
Member
Zundfolge quoted my comments and asked if I had read RICO:
Unfortunately I haven’t read RICO, perhaps a serious oversight on my part, however given my druthers, I believe I’d rather read a Spherical Trig text, such dealing with The Navigational Triangle as in Celestial Navigation, something I find interesting, than wade through the “work product” or our elected things. Having said that, I will stand on the following. Civil Asset Forfeiture, as currently practiced by what pass for the forces of law and order is plainly THEFT UNDER COLOR OF LAW, codified or otherwise. By the way, regarding anti organized crime legislation such as the RICO act, the acronym, Racketeer Influenced Criminal Organization seems an ever better fit for government, in it’s several manifestations.
The following might interest some. Can the above mentioned operate at all well, absent the willing cooperation of the law abiding. I think not, which brings us to the following. How do they reasonably expect the needed cooperation of the law abiding, when they pull the sort of obscene stunts involved in Civil Asset Forfeiture, such being involved in this case? I use the term obscene due to my wishing to remain within the bounds of reasonably polite conversation. Respecting the effect or impact of this THEFT UNDER COLOR OF LAW on the individual, by what possible stretch of the imagination are individuals who have not even been arrested, let along charged, indicted, prosecuted and convicted of serious violations of the law be so punished, and the taking of significant amounts of money and real or personal property, which has been done, most definitely amount to punishment of the individual.
The following might be a little “off topic”, however looking at problems with government, perhaps it isn’t. Veterans who have suffered combat or combat related wounds or injuries, who had received enlistment or reenlistment bonuses, and who have received medical discharges from military service, period to the ending of their term of enlistment, have been dunned by the military for return of above mentioned payments. What in blazes is going on that leads to that sort of thing? Additionally, veterans suffering physical injury, spelled combat or combat related wounds as well as physiological problems related to combat PTSD for instance have in some cases not receive proper treatment, this leading to some discipline cases, where the injured vets have received less than honorable discharges from military service. This serves to deny them needed medical benefits and payments that other vets, luckier vets one might note, have received. Now then this situation is not any sort of state secret, which brings us to the following locale. How does the government, with such situations being common knowledge, expect to obtain a level of quality enlistees needed for the services? They aren’t likely to succeed in attaining the numbers and or the intellectual quality of people that the military needs.
Where does this leaves the nation, one might well ask. Not in a particularly desirable locale is the obvious answer, and given that it appears that the government becomes more and more akin to that Racketeer Influenced Criminal Organization, the picture seems ever less likely to improve, Wars on Drugs and Civil Asset Forfeiture having run amuck notwithstanding.
Unfortunately I haven’t read RICO, perhaps a serious oversight on my part, however given my druthers, I believe I’d rather read a Spherical Trig text, such dealing with The Navigational Triangle as in Celestial Navigation, something I find interesting, than wade through the “work product” or our elected things. Having said that, I will stand on the following. Civil Asset Forfeiture, as currently practiced by what pass for the forces of law and order is plainly THEFT UNDER COLOR OF LAW, codified or otherwise. By the way, regarding anti organized crime legislation such as the RICO act, the acronym, Racketeer Influenced Criminal Organization seems an ever better fit for government, in it’s several manifestations.
The following might interest some. Can the above mentioned operate at all well, absent the willing cooperation of the law abiding. I think not, which brings us to the following. How do they reasonably expect the needed cooperation of the law abiding, when they pull the sort of obscene stunts involved in Civil Asset Forfeiture, such being involved in this case? I use the term obscene due to my wishing to remain within the bounds of reasonably polite conversation. Respecting the effect or impact of this THEFT UNDER COLOR OF LAW on the individual, by what possible stretch of the imagination are individuals who have not even been arrested, let along charged, indicted, prosecuted and convicted of serious violations of the law be so punished, and the taking of significant amounts of money and real or personal property, which has been done, most definitely amount to punishment of the individual.
The following might be a little “off topic”, however looking at problems with government, perhaps it isn’t. Veterans who have suffered combat or combat related wounds or injuries, who had received enlistment or reenlistment bonuses, and who have received medical discharges from military service, period to the ending of their term of enlistment, have been dunned by the military for return of above mentioned payments. What in blazes is going on that leads to that sort of thing? Additionally, veterans suffering physical injury, spelled combat or combat related wounds as well as physiological problems related to combat PTSD for instance have in some cases not receive proper treatment, this leading to some discipline cases, where the injured vets have received less than honorable discharges from military service. This serves to deny them needed medical benefits and payments that other vets, luckier vets one might note, have received. Now then this situation is not any sort of state secret, which brings us to the following locale. How does the government, with such situations being common knowledge, expect to obtain a level of quality enlistees needed for the services? They aren’t likely to succeed in attaining the numbers and or the intellectual quality of people that the military needs.
Where does this leaves the nation, one might well ask. Not in a particularly desirable locale is the obvious answer, and given that it appears that the government becomes more and more akin to that Racketeer Influenced Criminal Organization, the picture seems ever less likely to improve, Wars on Drugs and Civil Asset Forfeiture having run amuck notwithstanding.
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