Man wants his $400K back from the FBI

[thexrayboy]

This is apparently a case of civil forfeiture. You can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forfeiture

He doesn't have to be charged with a crime, but the authorities do have to convince a judge that their claim is legitimate. Since it's a civil, rather than criminal matter, the standard of proof is a preponderance of the evidence, rather than "beyond a reasonable doubt". So, to get his money back, his evidence that it is legitimate must be greater than the government's evidence that it is ill-gotten.

No where in the article does it state that the FBI or the police have even the minutest shred of evidence that the money was illegally obtained. LEO had and has absolutely no basis for taking this gentlemans money. NONE! They merely took it because they are aware that the present federal regime in power has created a sociopolitical environment that gives them a virtual monopoly on power.

This regime has been growing and expanding for decades to the point where its minions have realized that there no longer exists any effective means to counter their illegal activity. The courts, the legislatures, LEO....all of them have joined forces to rob the citizenry at will under the guise of the "war on drugs".

This country is no longer free and anyone who thinks our freedoms still exists is delusional. We only have the freedoms that those in power allow us to have, when those freedoms interfere with their profits and agendas those freedoms are ended.

 

[Michael Courtney]

Government agents are human. History has repeatedly shown that government agents are no more immune from the propensity for evil and greed than the citizenry at large.

This observation motivated our Founding Fathers to write a Constitution such that the burden of proof was always on the government agents when infringing on the rights to life, liberty, and property of the citizen.

It is a pity we have allowed the agents of our government to re-interpret the clear intent and wisdom of the Founding Fathers.

Michael Courtney

 

[thumbody]

Why would anyone not put that kind of money in the bank? Don't say taxes, because interest earned would more than pay for taxes. I understand many people keep emergency cash on hand but 400K is just plain crazy.

Many older people (usually older than this man) have a severe lack of faith in the banking system.
One fine fall morning in October 1929 my Great Grandfather went to the local grain elevator and sold his entire bean crop. He then proceeded to the local bank and deposited almost the entire amount.
He then walked across the street to get a bite to eat. When he came out of the restaurant the bank had closed and his money was gone.
After that he started hiding his money around the farm,either burying it or stashing it in old machinery.

 

[alsaqr]

"This is a part of the much-touted War on Drugs. The government has so many laws, or better yet, regulations, that anything can be justified by an ordinance. Much of the time, there is no enabling legislation to back it up."

Bingo!!!!

BTW: The so-called "war on drugs" is a miserable failure. You cannot fight a "war" against something that your citizens want to consume. So long as there is this huge appetite for dope in the USA someone will fill that need regardless of what the government does.

IMO: The money could be better spent on anti-dope education.

 

[Zundfolge]

Civil Asset Forfeiture, as currently practiced by what pass for the forces of law and order is plainly THEFT UNDER COLOR OF LAW, codified or otherwise.

The main reason I pointed out RICO in my original comment is that you keep using the phrase "Theft under color of law". The "Under Color" part has a specific meaning and that is basically pretending that your actions are backed up by the law when they are not. In other words for asset forfeiture to be "theft under color of law" it would be a crooked cop twisting the law in order to justify his theft.

Asset forfeiture is in reality Legalized Theft by the State. Yes, I'm picking semantic nits here.

By the way, regarding anti organized crime legislation such as the RICO act, the acronym, Racketeer Influenced Criminal Organization seems an ever better fit for government, in it’s several manifestations.

There is a book called The Federal Mafia where the author (don't remember his name) basically goes point by point through RICO and applies the statute to the IRS.

 

[Quaamik]

Ok, lets assum that there are no medical marijuana laws in that state (I don't know and am not going to take the time to look it up).

So possession of even a tiny amount is a crime. Punishment for a "user quantity" is what? Typicly a misdemeanor. That means a maximum of 1 year imprisonment and a maximum of a $1000 fine.

So they (the police) didn't bother to charge him, yet "fined" (confiscated0 $400,000.

The asset forfiture laws were supposedly in place to help law enforcement combat dealers that had enough money to laugh at our legal system, hire lawyers that would keep them out of jail, laugh at the fines imposed, bribe juries and judges if needed, and hire hits out on LEOs that still tried to enforce the laws. Oh yeah, and to help finance the "war on drugs".

So how can some people try to justify that, because this guy had a user quantity that was found, here was nothing wrong (not I didn't say illegal) about the cops confiscating this money?

 

[alan]

Zundfolge:

Point taken. Both of us are engaging in semantic games, it could be offered. I will, in any case, graciously accept your polite correction. Legalized Theft By The State is likely a more correct term. By the way, I find myself curious re your thinking on other points, shoud you care to share same.

The book you mentioned sounds interesting, I will check my local library to see if they have or can obtain a copy. Thanks.

 

[Geno]

Speaking of semantics, there is an old saying: "There is no right; there is no wrong, but thinking makes it so."

How many people's lives have been destroyed, sent to prison for life, their property taken, because some politician, probably motivated by something "noble" said that X is bad, and should be illegal. Certainly the happening can legitimately support a person's view that such action constitutes govermental theft.

 

[Pete409]

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so forgive me if someone else has already mentioned this.

Mr Ricks claims to have saved the money over the past 40 years or so. If that's true, then some of the money would have dates on the bills from 40 years ago (or maybe longer). If this were drug money that has been obtained in recent months or years, then nearly all the money would be dated within the past few years. A quick check of the dates on the bills should reveal which it is.

Don't misunderstand my intent. I'm thoroughly (urinated) off that Mr Ricks had his money confiscated and now has to shoulder the burden of proof to get his money back. I'm just suggesting that the dates on the bills might be able to establish how long he has had the money.

 

[Fred Thompson]

Just remember, the goverment is woking for you...

 

[XD_fan]

There have been more than one case of confiscation where nothing was ever done other than the confiscation. No charges filed, no arrests made, etc.

When I lived in LA years ago they were confiscating cars of "drug" customers at a particular park known for being a place to score drugs. Oddly enough they were only confiscating nice higher end vehicles.

I've been to several seizures auctions. I have yet to see a plain jane sedan for sale at one.

 

[romma]

This whole mindset by our goverment has the flavor of a heretical type of inquisition..

If you are going to confiscate someones home or vehicle in the name of the law,at least have the courtesy to Rack them, or boil them in oil so they can complete the experience...

 

[alan]

Zundfolge:

Checked the on line catalog at my local public library, and found no reference whatever to, for or of The Federal Mafia, the book you mentioned.

 

[takhtakaal]

$12.91 on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Federal-Mafia...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200119195&sr=8-1

 

[AK103K]

Checked the on line catalog at my local public library, and found no reference whatever to, for or of The Federal Mafia, the book you mentioned.

I dont doubt it. Irwin Schiff was a big anti IRS boy who was constantly bringing up the illegalities of the federal tax system. Although things have been moving forward somewhat in this respect, especially in the court rulings, its not something they want to get out into the general population of "the hood winked masses". As long as they keep the beer and football flowing, and splash those very public pre April 15th "examples" across the TV, they wont have to much to worry about.

I do find it interesting that the same branch of the government that controls that part of things is the same branch that controls the firearms. Even better is, the codes are often intermingled and cross quoted.

Who's playing today and bringing the beer?

 

[jaholder1971]

Many older people (usually older than this man) have a severe lack of faith in the banking system.
One fine fall morning in October 1929 my Great Grandfather went to the local grain elevator and sold his entire bean crop. He then proceeded to the local bank and deposited almost the entire amount.
He then walked across the street to get a bite to eat. When he came out of the restaurant the bank had closed and his money was gone.

Banking laws have changed a bit since 1929.

After that he started hiding his money around the farm,either burying it or stashing it in old machinery.

Yeah, I can see where that's safer. Money destroyed by water seepage, the paper eaten by mice and simply forgotten is SO MUCH safer than sitting in a bank with insurance.

 

[WeedWhacker]

Banking laws have changed a bit since 1929.

Good thing crooks never break laws...

Once bitten, twice shy, and wise men tend to learn from history rather than being doomed to repeat it.

 

[AK103K]

Banking laws have changed a bit since 1929.

Does that mean your guaranteed to get ALL your money out of the bank if they decide to have another "holiday"? (like ALL of YOUR money in your bank at any given moment.)