many weak round vs 1 strong round

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dashootist

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Not too happy with the DA trigger of my Keltec P32. Thinking of another vest pocket gun: Beretta 950. It can be rapid fire. Nicknamed "jetfire" because it can be shot quickly and accurately single action like a 1911. Nutnfancy seems to highly approve of it for CCW. Is a barrage of accurately placed 25acp better a one or two 380 with stiff double action trigger?
 
Do you have a P-32 or a 380 you used both in your post. Ih have a couple jet fire and other 25 and 22 beretta's I have a 380 keltec in my pocket rest stay in the safe. The trigger on a kelTec is't that bad. A 32 acp or a 380 beats a 25 hands down

Remember the 950 Beretta hasn't been made in many years. They went to model 20 then model 21 . their is no extractor have a misfire or hung case your out of action.
 
I used to carry a .25 acp until I bought a 38 Special derringer, I prefer small guns in the pocket for the sake of convenience. After some wetpack testing with both guns I'll take 2 Buffalo Bore wadcutter over 8 S&B FMJ's. Those Buffalo Bore hole-punchers are real cannon balls.
 
Why not go for a larger platform gun, I love the subcompact Glocks, they carry IWB extremely well as long as you don't like skinny jeans and matching shirts, and you can still carry the P32 when you just can't wear the subcompact service pistol?

Oh yeah, for any of those format pistols, get the FIST #1AK.

You have no idea how well they can carry until you try a super-thin Kydex rig like that. They make a tuckable version too, if you have to tuck your shirts in on the daily.
 
SHOT placement is arguably as important as round size. But there's always a trade off. If you can't shoot a larger gun/caliber well, go to the largest gun/caliber you can shoot well.

All of the other arguments and comparisons are just fluff.

A well-placed .22 will stop an assailant. A well-placed .45 will stop an assailant. If the shots aren't well-placed, the edge goes to the larger round, but that may not be enough, either.
 
I'm personally not a fan of caliber debates. I'm not one who proclaims that .45ACP is the minimum needed blah, blah, blah, but I can honestly say that .25ACP is way too small of a round for personal defense.

Shot placement matters, yes, but with a .25ACP the areas you need to hit to be effective are so much smaller compared to larger calibers that you might well plan to ask your attacker to hold perfectly still while you find an appropriate rest and take a couple well aimed shots. It's just not practical.

At a minimum, go up to a .32ACP. .380ACP would be a lot better though. Thats the smallest I willingly carry.
 
I still have cause-for-pause over anything short of a 9mm. But honestly, I occasionally EDC a Keltec P32 with the extended mag. I don't see me shrinking to .22 LR or .25 ACP under any (but the most extreme) circumstances.
 
Is a barrage of accurately placed 25acp better a one or two 380 with stiff double action trigger?
Click to expand...
You're trying to solve a platform problem but mixing it up with a chambering debate at the same time. Why not just solve the platform problem?

There are several pocket 380s that have decent SA triggers if that is the predominant thing that you value. If you value a DA trigger and simply want better, I have not found any vest pocket that cannot accept a PF9 or Kahr CM9, both of which have highly satisfying smooth DA pulls (and both of which move you up in power instead of down).
 
Little bullets poke little holes. Little holes don't bleed as profusely as bigger holes. This is why small calibers are generally less effective in producing rapid incapacitation.

But there are exceptions - such as when Richard Blackburn fatally shot SC Trooper Mark Coates using a .22 rimfire mini revolver in 1992. The bullet cut a major artery. The dash cam in Coates' cruiser shows he stumbled and immedately collapsed to the pavement unconscious after having been shot.

I carry a Seecamp .32 ACP pistol when I either can't carry a larger pistol or I just want to arm myself as I head out the door to run a quick errand. My primary strategy with the Seecamp is to use it to create an opportunity for escape from danger - shoot & scoot. If I find myself in a situation in which shoot & scoot isn't an option and I must shoot then I'm going to shoot as quickly as possible until either the bad guy(s) falls to the ground or I empty the magazine.

Since small bullets poke small holes you should expect to have to fire more rounds to stop a bad guy. (I always carry a spare magazine for my Seecamp in case I empty it so I can perform a Combat Reload and keep going if I have to.)

However you might get lucky and a bullet hits and disrupts the spine or other CNS structure, in which case caliber is not going to be as important as it is with producing rapid blood loss.

I'm assuming you meant your Kel Tec is a P-38T instead of a P32. I suggest looking for another .380 pistol of about the same size if you haven't had any issues in carrying your P-38T.

Good luck!
 
Much of what you say makes sense, but if someone's attacking you, you don't really want to wait for SHOCK or blood loss to stop the attack. That's why shot placement is so darned important.

If the Stuff ever hits the fan, I want the biggest caliber I can shoot with confidence. I no longer carry a P3AT or LCP because as much as I liked those guns, I wasn't as confident in my ability to hit the right stuff if I had to do it quickly.

People die from .22 shots. But a lot of folks get shot in the head and are just pissed off by the effort. The same sort of thing happens to folks shot with .45 rounds, too, but far less often. My problem is that I just don't shoot .45s as well as I shoot a 9mm... Maybe I need to find a better .45... (I've been giving serious though to the compact glocks that shoot .38 gap.)
 
Even carrying my .357, I know that the fight don't end when you get a round on someone.

It's not the size of the gun in the fight, is the size of the fight in the GUY.
 
Really? Nutntalkstoomuch likes a .25ACP gun for CCW? Huh...

I think rbernie hit it on the head, why step down in caliber simply to get a better trigger? I think you can get both a decent trigger and a decent caliber in one gun, so there's no need to choose between the two.

If you want a 1911 style trigger in a .380 pocket gun, the Sig P238 or Colt Mustang is about as close as you can get.
 
(I've been giving serious though to the compact glocks that shoot .38 gap.)
Click to expand...


The people who own them tend to rave about them, and the good defense and duty loads for it are no more expensive then the same in .40/.45.
 
.25 is totally insufficient. I SAW a guy shoot himself in the TEMPLE with the muzzle against the skin. The round hit no bone. It went through the temple, cut the right optic nerve and exited the left eyeball. It also blew out the sinuses. The guy is blind for life, but he got up and ran around until I got him down and compressed the wound until the ambulance arrived. The guy was being stupid with a firearm and shot himself.

Doctor said that he could have easily died had the round been bigger or smaller. A .22 could have been lethal and a 9mm too, but the .25 was so underpowered it couldn't penetrate the bag around the brain, instead it went around it. There was a burn mark on it though and it bruised some things up, but otherwise was unable to get through to the brain. Lucky, lucky guy.

I've also heard of .25's bouncing off the head. Seriously. When I saw this guy get shot I thought this was what happened at first, there was no blood and he was holding his head like he had a bad headache (and wasn't dead from a headshot!). But when he moved his hand from his temple, blood shot out three feet under pressure for a half second and I knew I needed to call 911.

I wouldn't depend on .25 for defense. This was an FMJ round and it couldn't penetrate the brain from the temple? What, are you going to shoot beween the tear duct and the eyeball for an unobstructed head on shot?

With all these new mini pieces out there, get something else. There are .45ACP titanium derringers, mini 9's, tiny .380's, and I have a scandium .357. I'd like to have the 2 shot .45ACP derringer in titanium, but they are going to have to come down from the $950 cloud they are occupying at the moment, way on down to the $400 bill of sale I'm willing to sign. That little thing is great for the pocket as a backup or whatever, only 5/8" and smaller than a cell phone!

If you have your heart on a mini auto, a real mini, the .22 would probably be a better choice. It is a fairly high pressure and velocity round, highly efficient for its size. A magnum would be better, and a 9mm or larger centerfire better still.
 
The problem with .22s are that -- without regard to their ability to disable an attacker - they are notorious for misfires. That is less of a problem with even the smallest centerfire rounds.

But, as everyone seems to be saying (with the possible exception of .25), bigger is better.
 
Jeff Cooper a long time ago wrote about how it is easier to hit well with one powerful round than it is to do the same with many weaker rounds.

Now he was talking about the .45 .vs. 36 cal. rounds (9mm, .38, .380, etc..)

And that is one reason he championed the .45 ACP and the 1911.

One can argue with the idea of .45 .vs. 9mm but the concept he had was, and is, valid.

This is especially true in self defense as once the firing starts, there will be lots of moment. Running, ducking, diving behind cover, etc... and making several good hits might be alot harder to do than making one or two GOOD hits.

And that is why I feel if you pack a 9mm, use only the top loads like Winchester +p+ 127gr ammo.

But as for the mouseguns, they are good guns for your opponent to have when the balloon goes up. Pack something bigger.

Deaf
 
I've never understood the whole pocket pistol "pee shooter" thing. Too many small 9mm platforms out there for me to compromise with smaller calibers.

Just my .02.
 
many weak rounds vs 1 strong round


I can see both sides of this debate....

One one side, many smaller rounds gives one more chances of hitting the target.

But, on the other hand, what good are those hits if they are ineffective at quickly stopping the target?


AND, what if you only have the opportunity to get one shot at your target?

I would rather have that one hit to be something more effective than a .25 caliber.
 
Ok. I admit that I've been drooling over Beretta 950, and I was just looking for a good excuse to buy one. I really can't think of any good reason to own it, except that it can shoot like a machine gun. There's like no recoil. I've always dislike the recoil on little mouse guns. Even with 32acp, it's difficult to make fast rapid shots accurately, especially with long DAO trigger pull. I can imagine how bad my shots would be with a 9mm mini/subcompact.

Nine rounds of 25acp in two seconds. Like a machine gun.
1:17 to 1:19
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm3CP3ijPIs&feature=relmfu
 
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