many weak round vs 1 strong round

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

IF and only IF the rounds in question are actually capable of damaging the target enough to stop it...

Many weaker rounds is preferable. Consider that the only real way to stop a threat is a CNS(central nervous system) hit. Brain, brain stem, spinal cord. Only damaging these organs can actually shut a human being off. Causing someone to bleed out, as with a heart shot, or doubnle over with pain, like with a stomach shot can be enough to stop some threats. Aiming for center mass, as we are all taught, gives you the best chance of a hit at all, plus it allows you a good chance on getting to the spine, as well as causing pain, and creating a wound channel that will let the target lose enough blood as to stop motor function.

But in the end, a hit is a hit, and a miss is a miss. If I fire 3 rounds of 9mm, and only one hits, it is still far better than missing with one or two rounds of .50cal. I also personally always train to fire at least two rounds per target. There is no such thing as a single shot. When I fire at all, it's two trigger pulls, whether it be a .22lr or a .50cal. You have more chances of hitting your target at all with more rounds, and more of those rounds have better chances of hitting the CNS. 1 big .45ACP might create a big wound, but if the target still has enough motor function to shoot back for a few moments, what have you accomplished? I prefer to give the target 2 quick 9mm shots(a caliber that is easier to place accurate followup shots) and reevaluate. Then two more if necessary.

The whole small vs. large debate always seems to center around the wound channel created by a large round vs a small round. No on ever seems to take probability of hitting at all, followup shots, how many rounds one fires at a threat, and likelihood of hitting the CNS into account.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Keep in mind guys not all shots fired will be hits.

And that is born out in shooting stats.

What happens to those missed rounds?

And just because you hit does not mean it's in a location that has real effect.

So the most important thing is practice. And then more practice. And on top of that practice.

Only good hits count. But your hits do have to be more precise with mouse guns, but sadly most mouse guns have poor triggers, sights, grips, etc....

Deaf

 

[Bovice]

Nutnfancy's criteria for guns are these:

If it weighs more than a feather and doesn't carry 20+1, it isn't practical.

There are much better choices than a .25acp jetfire, do not buy on his recommendation alone. The way he talks about the 92FS, it might as well weigh 30 pounds and have the capacity of a revolutionary war musket.

 

[David E]

Seems obvious to me that one should improve their DA skills before choosing a mouse-fart caliber.

I don't care what nutnfancy thinks.

 

[orionengnr]

Nine rounds of 25acp in two seconds. Like a machine gun

A good shooter can fire 8+1 rounds of .45 acp through a semi-auto in the same or less time.
An exceptional shooter like Jerry Miculek can put 12 rounds through a .45 acp revolver in the same time...with a reload.

 

[David E]

Actually, it took Jerry 2.99 to do that.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Actually, it took Jerry 2.99 to do that.

That was done on one of Jerry's slow days..

But RPS (rounds per second) means squat if you miss. Then it becomes MPS (misses per second), and each miss with a lawyer attached.

We should not be interested on how fast we can pull the trigger but how fast we can identify the threats and engage while getting GOOD hits.

It's alot harder than you think.

Deaf

 

[David E]

But it's not as hard as some people think, either.

Many people seem to think that it must be a choice between "accurate" or "fast.". That you can't do one while doing the other.

It's not hard to do both simultaneously once you know how.

 

[PowerG]

1 strong round.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

1 strong round.

Just out of curiosity, do you train yourself to fire only 1 round at a threat?

 

[jackpinesavages]

Is a barrage of accurately placed 25acp better a one or two 380 with stiff double action trigger?

No. One head shot with .38 and up is usually a show stopper. Range time is your best friend.

 

[Jed Carter]

More than a little likely it will take more then one round from any pistol to stop a threat. From a mouse gun you may have to hit them with the pistol too. I carry a SIG P238 or a Beretta 950 .25 when I am not carrying a gun. Flee would be my first choice with such a pistol. I usuall carry a 4.25 inch 1911 in either .45 or 9mm. I have confidence in my abilities to survive an armed encounter with these weapons. In addition to a lot of practice I shoot, USPSA, IDPA matches. You need to be able to draw, aim, fire 2 rounds into center of mass on say 3 targets in about 4 seconds. If you are robbed, and a weapon is diplayed, if you draw a weapon to counter the threat someone is going to get hurt. Probably the victim if they don't have enough practice drawing and firing, and firing while moving.

 

[PowerG]

Just out of curiosity, do you train yourself to fire only 1 round at a threat?

Actually no, but the two choices are "many weak rounds vs 1 strong round"; my preference would be "multiple strong rounds", but that's not one of the choices.

I think you're operating under the assumption that it's not possible to fire follow-up shots as quickly with a .45 as it is with a 9mm, which I don't think is correct. Assuming my assertion is true, then if a double is fired, and accuracy is just as good (and my 1911 is easily the most accurate CCW weapon I own) then I stand a greater chance of doing more damage than with a lower caliber. If the situation devolves into one where we're in a scramble and an exchange of shots, I still have the advantage of that accuracy, and more damage from less than optimal hits, or shooting at bad angles. The only disadvantage I have is that of capacity, but I can't just start spraying bullets in the general direction of the target, as pointed out above, each bullet I fire has liability attached to it. The goal is to end the encounter as quickly as possible, and I think I can do that more successfully with a larger caliber.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Most likely done if you have a good load, good gun, and are a strait shooter.

That's the best combination.

I'll take a excellent shot with a Colt Woodsman .22 over a duffer with a Glock 21. And a fair shots with a .38 over just about anyone with a little dinky .22 NAA. But if you get just a good solid gun in .38 spl./9mm on up, good ammo, and your practice is often and realistic, then you will be ok.

That is the combination. A balance of speed, power, and accuracy. Hmm didn't someone long ago write, "Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas"?

Guess that guy was right.

Deaf

 

[1911crazy]

i agree if you carry a 9mm you should go with the best possible defensive ammo like cor-bon power ball,glaser silver,glaser blue,etc....

 

[Deaf Smith]

i agree if you carry a 9mm you should go with the best possible defensive ammo like cor-bon power ball,glaser silver,glaser blue,etc....

Yep.. in my Glock 26 I use Winchester +p+ T series 127gr ammo.

In my Glock 27 I use Winchester T series 155 JHPs, and in my Glock 33 I use CCI Gold-Dot 125gr JHPs.

I use the best ammo I can find (within reason, DPX ammo cost $2 a shot and to test your gun you will need at lest 1 mag full for each mag you carry and that can mean 100 bucks of ammo or more!)

And get generic FMJ ammo and practice, practice, practice (as well as a .22 understudy to share the $$ cost.)

Deaf

 

[harmon rabb]

eh. try shooting random stuff with a 22lr or 25acp. in shooting some old junk, a 22lr out of a RIFLE couldn't get through a piece of plastic that was maybe 1/4in thick. even a 380 went through it like a hot knife through butter. that convinced me that 22lr is not acceptable for defense. 25acp has about the same power.