Martial Law is happening now, removal of second amendment rights as well as others!
- Thread starter hipoint
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SharpsDressedMan
member
Under martial law, I like to think I'd be a new criminal, like those in 1776.................
blarby
Member
So, in actuality, your restrictions under the law given the correct definitions, would be basically limited to traversing unimproved farmland.
There could presumably be some grey area on large expanses of lawn as well.
You would be clear in this instance attending to livestock in proximity of their housing, as well. ( For instance, gathering livestock from pasture back to your barn had they escaped)
Just that the definition of "home" and "property" in this instance are not in actuality, transparent at first reading....but upon detailed review, actually to me sounds appropriate.
Given that information Hso, does that seem more reasonable ?
There could presumably be some grey area on large expanses of lawn as well.
You would be clear in this instance attending to livestock in proximity of their housing, as well. ( For instance, gathering livestock from pasture back to your barn had they escaped)
Just that the definition of "home" and "property" in this instance are not in actuality, transparent at first reading....but upon detailed review, actually to me sounds appropriate.
Given that information Hso, does that seem more reasonable ?
If the discussion isn't actually about firearms, as the OP now indicates, we don't actually have a discussion within scope of THR.
zxcvbob
Member
blarby said:
Disco sucks.
(somebody had to say it)
So....what you're saying is that citizens lawfully carrying firearms would be participating in armed looting/pillaging -- and worse?
14 years ago a tornado when through close to where i live then about 12 years ago one hit where i live. both times the national gaurd was called out they set up check points and would turn people away after a ceritain time if they didnt live in the area. there was a patrol that came through fairly regulary it was a hassle but they where concerned about looting. while there wasnt ever any 2nd amendment violations (infact nothing was said to locals cleaning up with a holster on there side) there where some definite consitutional rights that got bent up during all that. imho it was the best thing to do at the time to help out the people who had been hit and werent able to stay around to protect there stuff from looters.
the curfew is probably in place so the locals will know to stop and question any one who is out and about at night make sure there not up to something.
the curfew is probably in place so the locals will know to stop and question any one who is out and about at night make sure there not up to something.
Bubbles
Member
Which does bring up another point - natural disasters can destroy fencing. If I'm on my farm or ranch and carrying a varmint rifle, which is not unusual, if there's now a "state of emergency" and I've got livestock running all over the roads because my fences were flattened, do I have to take the gun home before rounding up my cows?
guyfromohio
Member
MeHavey.... dangerous logic.
blarby
Member
@ bubbles :
Laws in your state may differ.
Gary @ gunlaws is trying to form a list of emergency state powers in relation to guns....you could find and assist by visiting here :
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=647500
You could be of great assistance in helping others with the answer to your question by finding it !
Laws in your state may differ.
Gary @ gunlaws is trying to form a list of emergency state powers in relation to guns....you could find and assist by visiting here :
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=647500
You could be of great assistance in helping others with the answer to your question by finding it !
Yoda
Member
If they want federal aid, the proclamation has no effect...
They can't touch your guns if they're taking federal funds. Here's the law:
PUBLIC LAW 109–295—OCT. 4, 2006 SEC. 706. FIREARMS POLICIES. ‘‘(a) PROHIBITION ON CONFISCATION OF FIREARMS
”No officer or employee of the United States (including any member of the uniformed services), or person operating pursuant to or under color of Federal law, or receiving Federal funds, or under control of any Federal official, or providing services to such an officer, employee, or other person, while acting in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency, may;
(1) temporarily or permanently seize…any firearm the possession of which is not prohibited under Federal, State, or local law…;‘‘
(2) require registration of any firearm for which registration is not required by Federal, State, or local law;”
(3) prohibit possession of any firearm…in any place or by any person where such possession is not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State, or local law; or
(4) prohibit the carrying of firearms by any person otherwise authorized to carry firearms under Federal, State, or local law…
(b) LIMITATION.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit …the temporary surrender of a firearm as a condition for entry into any mode of transportation used for rescue or evacuation during a major disaster or emergency, provided that such temporarily surrendered firearm is returned at the completion of such rescue or evacuation.
---Yoda
They can't touch your guns if they're taking federal funds. Here's the law:
PUBLIC LAW 109–295—OCT. 4, 2006 SEC. 706. FIREARMS POLICIES. ‘‘(a) PROHIBITION ON CONFISCATION OF FIREARMS
”No officer or employee of the United States (including any member of the uniformed services), or person operating pursuant to or under color of Federal law, or receiving Federal funds, or under control of any Federal official, or providing services to such an officer, employee, or other person, while acting in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency, may;
(1) temporarily or permanently seize…any firearm the possession of which is not prohibited under Federal, State, or local law…;‘‘
(2) require registration of any firearm for which registration is not required by Federal, State, or local law;”
(3) prohibit possession of any firearm…in any place or by any person where such possession is not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State, or local law; or
(4) prohibit the carrying of firearms by any person otherwise authorized to carry firearms under Federal, State, or local law…
(b) LIMITATION.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit …the temporary surrender of a firearm as a condition for entry into any mode of transportation used for rescue or evacuation during a major disaster or emergency, provided that such temporarily surrendered firearm is returned at the completion of such rescue or evacuation.
---Yoda
Yoda
Member
Florida law is pretty good, too
FS 252.36
During emergencies, the Governor may suspend or limit the sale, dispensing, or transportation of alcoholic beverages, firearms, explosives, and combustibles.
“…nothing contained in …252.31-252.90 shall be construed to authorize the seizure, taking, or confiscation of firearms that are lawfully possessed, unless a person is engaged in the commission of a criminal act.”
FS 870.044
During a state of emergency, the following is prohibited:
Sale of, or offer to sell, with or without consideration, any ammunition or gun or other firearm of any size or description.
Intentional display by or in any store or shop of any ammunition or gun or other firearm of any size or description
Intentional possession in a public place of a firearm by any person, except a duly authorized law enforcement official or person in military service acting in the official performance of her or his duty.
Nothing …in this chapter…authorize(s) the seizure, taking, or confiscation of firearms that are lawfully possessed, unless a person is engaged in a criminal act.
---Yoda
FS 252.36
During emergencies, the Governor may suspend or limit the sale, dispensing, or transportation of alcoholic beverages, firearms, explosives, and combustibles.
“…nothing contained in …252.31-252.90 shall be construed to authorize the seizure, taking, or confiscation of firearms that are lawfully possessed, unless a person is engaged in the commission of a criminal act.”
FS 870.044
During a state of emergency, the following is prohibited:
Sale of, or offer to sell, with or without consideration, any ammunition or gun or other firearm of any size or description.
Intentional display by or in any store or shop of any ammunition or gun or other firearm of any size or description
Intentional possession in a public place of a firearm by any person, except a duly authorized law enforcement official or person in military service acting in the official performance of her or his duty.
Nothing …in this chapter…authorize(s) the seizure, taking, or confiscation of firearms that are lawfully possessed, unless a person is engaged in a criminal act.
---Yoda
SharpsDressedMan
member
Armed citizens make up the security force when there are not enough police and military during a disaster or emergency. Why would they feel it was logical to chase legally armed, and well intentioned, people off the streets? Did the authorities forget WHERE they get their authority?
BCCL
Member
The irony is, 14 miles from here, Harrisburg, IL. got really slammed by a Tornado last week, 25 business' and about 200+ homes destroyed, and while they did post a curfew, nobody even thought about suspending gun and ammo sales...and this is Illinois!
hogshead
Member
blarby If my livestock get out chances are they are not gonna be on my property.If I am on my 4 wheeler [which I usually ride when rounding up loose livestock] I will have a rifle on the front rack. May have to put a animal down or something may be chasing them. So I would be a moving violation waiting to happen.
the curfew law that I posted was very clear... maybe folks aren't reading back that far and only responding to the last few comments (I have been guilty of that as well).
The law states that you have to be INDOORS after 6:30 p.m. period. says nothing about property or otherwise, specifically INDOORS. Now, the rest of it states that during the state of emergency you cannot transport alcohol or firearms off of your PROPERTY so that means you're cool to carry a gun around the farm, just not off of it.
Anyhow, the curfew was lifted this evening and as far as I know there were no foolish arrests (I wasn't expecting any) but this whole thing has really opened my eyes, this storm was NOT THAT BAD, and we live in a very rural area, meaning there aren't going to be roving hordes of looters as there are no hordes to be found except for maybe wal-mart on a saturday afternoon
These folks can pretty much do whatever they like with little to no oversight as long as they declare a state of emergency, and while this was a little more than we normally get, it's really not that big of a deal, I mean we're talking 20 homes in the entire county and a handful of businesses... So, at the risk of sounding like a 'prepper' stock up on the things you might need because it doesn't take anything for 'the man' to limit your access to things.
I'm glad it's all over now, but take this as a real wakeup call folks, all it takes is a podunk county commissioner to sign a piece of paper and suddenly you're a criminal for going out your front door when they tell you not to!
The law states that you have to be INDOORS after 6:30 p.m. period. says nothing about property or otherwise, specifically INDOORS. Now, the rest of it states that during the state of emergency you cannot transport alcohol or firearms off of your PROPERTY so that means you're cool to carry a gun around the farm, just not off of it.
Anyhow, the curfew was lifted this evening and as far as I know there were no foolish arrests (I wasn't expecting any) but this whole thing has really opened my eyes, this storm was NOT THAT BAD, and we live in a very rural area, meaning there aren't going to be roving hordes of looters as there are no hordes to be found except for maybe wal-mart on a saturday afternoon
These folks can pretty much do whatever they like with little to no oversight as long as they declare a state of emergency, and while this was a little more than we normally get, it's really not that big of a deal, I mean we're talking 20 homes in the entire county and a handful of businesses... So, at the risk of sounding like a 'prepper' stock up on the things you might need because it doesn't take anything for 'the man' to limit your access to things.
I'm glad it's all over now, but take this as a real wakeup call folks, all it takes is a podunk county commissioner to sign a piece of paper and suddenly you're a criminal for going out your front door when they tell you not to!
blarby
Member
Actually, it says you must be inside a DWELLING, hence my offering of the definition as it applies to your state.
edit : SPECIFICALLY it does not mention INDOORS. PERIOD. It says INSIDE A HOUSE DWELLING
edit : FWIW, "Inside" can be reasonably expected to be "within the boundaries of" and frequently is interpreted to mean just that.
edit : I'm fairly certain that those drawing up the law and its verbiage were aware of both the existing law, and the definitions of that particular verbiage, as it pertains to their state....even if their constituents do not.
Glad it blew over....no pun intended.
edit : SPECIFICALLY it does not mention INDOORS. PERIOD. It says INSIDE A HOUSE DWELLING
edit : FWIW, "Inside" can be reasonably expected to be "within the boundaries of" and frequently is interpreted to mean just that.
edit : I'm fairly certain that those drawing up the law and its verbiage were aware of both the existing law, and the definitions of that particular verbiage, as it pertains to their state....even if their constituents do not.
Glad it blew over....no pun intended.
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who then has to be barraged with complaints and threats of being unseated in the next election for overstepping.
razorback2003
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I don't think we have this sort of law in Tennessee. I do know that I would not want to be out after dark in a disaster area roaming around. I remember some areas that were flooded last year and the year before last had curfews, but not this whole not being able to carry handguns off your property. I think we have a law that prevents that. I'd conceal my gun anyway and not want anyone to see it to avoid some of the less educated police.
blarby
Member
For humor and not, but to lighten the tone a little...especially my tone towards the OP, I offer this :
The interesting part to me is...
When you read it clearly, its almost as if they are actually saying : ( in the old tymey sheriffs voice)
"Since there's been an epic disaster in your area and you have no power....... we're enforcing the commonsense prudence of : Keep your guns and bombs and booze on your property , stay safe, have a drink, let us handle this- Oh, and when its dark....since you have no power...if you have a structure...go there for shelter.
If you had the forethought to own enough firearms to get your hose in a wad over this, but not a jug of whiskey- thats your own dang fault. Wait a couple days, or go to the next county where they have power to sell it to you....during the day.
If you have enough whiskey, but not enough guns....mebbe its better that way until this blows over....if you dont think so, go to the next county tomorrow.....during the day.
If'n you need a reminder....we have a disaster here...if you really need us to explain to ya why to stay inside when its cold and wet, and dark, and theres no power... and theres tornaders ! eveywhere !.... perhaps you need a little less whiskey, and a little more coffee.
We ain't tryin to arrest nobody..... we ain't tryin to take yer guns....we're trying to keep everyone safe.
"
It is not amazing to me that with the stress of this event, combined with some predispositions about your local elected officials designs on you, that the mind might wander into some interesting directions. Vapors....hysterics mebbe.
By all accounts, no one was arrested...... I'm sure the threat of law kept those few with foul intentions away from the area *snicker*.... maybe knowing the authorities had eliminated the need for probable cause to interact with them by setting a "curfew".
I'm sure everyone who broke that curfew and were observed doing so got an immediate inquiry as to why....and either sent back to their homes, or allowed on their way. By the news accounts....thats exactly what happened.
As has been stated in not so many words, from many many folks : Not every set of rules that arises from circumstance is designed to grind you mercilessly with the thumb of authority. Some people just need a splash of reality water in hard times to get them to do the obvious right things.
We used to call that common sense. Seems to have eroded a LOT in the last generation (of which I am a part, but not party to.)... people seemed to lose it, and we started gettin all these rule sets....but thats another issue, for another thread.
Theres a time and a place for everything... I'd be cranky if I needed to run out at 930pm for smokes and beer too, and couldn't...... but sometimes you gotta look at the whole picture, not just the glowy parts.
NOW, not that its a total wolf cry..... IF they had (or START to) shown up and started haulin off your booze or guns....or mebbe even your bombs... PLEASE LET US KNOW. We want the truth from the folks on the ground....I'm sure someone'll send Uncle Pauly on a horse if we get word in time.
In the meantime.....everyone take a minute to refresh yourselves on the emergency powers vested in your local gov't. If'n ya don't like 'em.....we're still sort of a
democracy, you have avenues ( as Hso points out frequently) to address those grievances. DO SO.
For those of you unfortunate enough to be in these areas : My heart goes out to ya.
"This too, shall pass"
The interesting part to me is...
When you read it clearly, its almost as if they are actually saying : ( in the old tymey sheriffs voice)
"Since there's been an epic disaster in your area and you have no power....... we're enforcing the commonsense prudence of : Keep your guns and bombs and booze on your property , stay safe, have a drink, let us handle this- Oh, and when its dark....since you have no power...if you have a structure...go there for shelter.
If you had the forethought to own enough firearms to get your hose in a wad over this, but not a jug of whiskey- thats your own dang fault. Wait a couple days, or go to the next county where they have power to sell it to you....during the day.
If you have enough whiskey, but not enough guns....mebbe its better that way until this blows over....if you dont think so, go to the next county tomorrow.....during the day.
If'n you need a reminder....we have a disaster here...if you really need us to explain to ya why to stay inside when its cold and wet, and dark, and theres no power... and theres tornaders ! eveywhere !.... perhaps you need a little less whiskey, and a little more coffee.
We ain't tryin to arrest nobody..... we ain't tryin to take yer guns....we're trying to keep everyone safe.
"It is not amazing to me that with the stress of this event, combined with some predispositions about your local elected officials designs on you, that the mind might wander into some interesting directions. Vapors....hysterics mebbe.
By all accounts, no one was arrested...... I'm sure the threat of law kept those few with foul intentions away from the area *snicker*.... maybe knowing the authorities had eliminated the need for probable cause to interact with them by setting a "curfew".
I'm sure everyone who broke that curfew and were observed doing so got an immediate inquiry as to why....and either sent back to their homes, or allowed on their way. By the news accounts....thats exactly what happened.
As has been stated in not so many words, from many many folks : Not every set of rules that arises from circumstance is designed to grind you mercilessly with the thumb of authority. Some people just need a splash of reality water in hard times to get them to do the obvious right things.
We used to call that common sense. Seems to have eroded a LOT in the last generation (of which I am a part, but not party to.)... people seemed to lose it, and we started gettin all these rule sets....but thats another issue, for another thread.
Theres a time and a place for everything... I'd be cranky if I needed to run out at 930pm for smokes and beer too, and couldn't
...... but sometimes you gotta look at the whole picture, not just the glowy parts. NOW, not that its a total wolf cry..... IF they had (or START to) shown up and started haulin off your booze or guns....or mebbe even your bombs... PLEASE LET US KNOW. We want the truth from the folks on the ground....I'm sure someone'll send Uncle Pauly on a horse if we get word in time.
In the meantime.....everyone take a minute to refresh yourselves on the emergency powers vested in your local gov't. If'n ya don't like 'em.....we're still sort of a
democracy, you have avenues ( as Hso points out frequently) to address those grievances. DO SO.For those of you unfortunate enough to be in these areas : My heart goes out to ya.
"This too, shall pass"
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Very nice work Yoda.
Highpoint, you may want to bring this to the attention of the Board of Commissioners. Perhaps assume that they meant no harm, at least while you're dealing with them. You may find them a bit more open to suggestion this way.
My only real beef is that they didn't allow a responsible firearm owner to carry while off their property in daylight hours. You may need supplies, or need to help a friend, relative or neighbor. If it's so dangerous that they need a curfew, then it's dangerous enough for you to need a sidearm.
JohnBT
Member
"I live in a small town"
Next time post the town's name in your first post and I won't have to guess and resort to google searches. Actually, your first post doesn't even contain your state.
"Anyhow, the curfew was lifted this evening"
So the sky didn't fall. In the word of a famous tv star, "Nevermind"
John
P.S. - My first guess as to your location was Guilford County because I'm familiar, or used to be, with the town of High Point and the furniture business.
Next time post the town's name in your first post and I won't have to guess and resort to google searches. Actually, your first post doesn't even contain your state.
"Anyhow, the curfew was lifted this evening"
So the sky didn't fall. In the word of a famous tv star, "Nevermind"
John
P.S. - My first guess as to your location was Guilford County because I'm familiar, or used to be, with the town of High Point and the furniture business.
sixgunner455
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- Aug 25, 2006
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I have really resisted responding to this thread, but something has been bugging me since I read it last night, and continues to.
English definitions of words:
Keep: own, possess, have.
Bear: carry about, have with you
Infringe: restrict, encroach upon
It seems that, temporarily, two of three of those words were violated. One was partially.
Whether this was a big deal or not is another issue.
English definitions of words:
Keep: own, possess, have.
Bear: carry about, have with you
Infringe: restrict, encroach upon
It seems that, temporarily, two of three of those words were violated. One was partially.
Whether this was a big deal or not is another issue.
SunnySlopes
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- Nov 3, 2011
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Be that as it may, I'm more than a little surprised that a lowly county commissioner could unilaterally enact such rules.
What's next? The HOA?
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