Massad Ayoob

[Koos Custodiet]

The coolest Massad Ayoob quote, IMO, is not on the 'net anywhere. But I have it in print. Something along the lines of "You bought your eight year old daughter a *revolver*??? <Mas> Well, she's had her own *semi-auto* since she was *five*"...

 

[Mtnvalley]

Okay, I'm going to use that on the air!

Great! I sure wish a station local to me offered your show, or that it was on Sirius. I do look forward to the new season of PDTV, though...I never miss it, and keep every ep recorded.

 

[armoredman]

He did, I heard it, and Mas laughed.

 

[Guntalk]

If you can't hear the show live, you can download the shows from the web site.

www.guntalk.com/listen, and follow the links to the archives.

Apple iTunes has it, too.

 

[massad ayoob]

Thanks for the kind words.

To play a little catchup...

TOM: Thanks for having me on the show on the spur of the moment. That was a hoot!3

SM: I'll go to a 28 gauge when they make it...bigger.

JUST JIM: Sorry the Colt Officers didn't work out for you. I carry different guns at different times, depending what I'm doing and what gun I'm testing.

RICK O'SHEA: The book has stood the test of time pretty well. As I said a little bit ago on Tom's show, deadly force is a mature body of law, with few recent and substantive changes. The new "stand your ground" laws in some states, for example, are a great moral victory for our side, but not yet court tested.

BILL: When not on the road teaching etc., I divide my time between NH and FL, mostly the latter.

AKODO: We may have a misunderstanding. The net nickname is a tradition in the electronic forum, kinda like the "handle" at a cowboy action match. At the latter, I'll happily answer to "Camelback Kid," and in the usual exchanges of info and information that a forum is for, I have no problem at all with the nicknames. On the rare occasion that a flamer or troll badmouths another member or shooter by name, though, I do think he should have the cojones to put his own name on what he's saying.

MTNVALLEY: Good one. That's a new one, and Tom really did use it on the radio show.

 

[El Tejon]

*rolls on ground*

"Stand your ground" not court tested?

Mas, the elimination of the duty to retreat has been ongoing over the last 150 years. The Supreme Court of Indiana did it for us in 1865. We've been getting by just fine without a duty to retreat for over 140 years well before Florida became the first state in the Union (according to the media) to abolish the duty to retreat a couple of years ago.

Is there some other provision of a certain "stand your ground" statute that is unsually and would be subject to court challenge? If so, what would that be?

 

[sm]

Mas wrote
SM: I'll go to a 28 gauge when they make it...bigger.

They do, just take out the tubes and it becomes a 12 bore.


I actually have another reply, still this "is" a family orientated public forum and all...
Gee, all the "really good" straight lines and comebacks occur behind the monitor so many times.


I know...I'm in trouble again. I seem to stay in trouble.

 

[Edmond]

WHY anyone would think that picking fights with gun nuts is a good idea I don't understand, but hey...

Just like the same reason that people picked fights with Bruce Lee. People just wanted to see if he was the real deal or not. I guess some found out the hard way.

Only LFI class I've taken is Advanced Handgun Skills and it wasn't even designed by Mr. Ayoob. However, I will be taking more LFI classes once I get into a LE position.

 

[Roadwild17]

Tom & Mas, just to let you know, my fiance says doesn't like yall. For some reason yall are constantly filling up the tivo .

 

[akodo]

AKODO: We may have a misunderstanding. The net nickname is a tradition in the electronic forum, kinda like the "handle" at a cowboy action match. At the latter, I'll happily answer to "Camelback Kid," and in the usual exchanges of info and information that a forum is for, I have no problem at all with the nicknames. On the rare occasion that a flamer or troll badmouths another member or shooter by name, though, I do think he should have the cojones to put his own name on what he's saying.

fair enough. When called for, a person should be willing to reveal who they truely are. Barring that, it is smarter to pick a nickname and attempt to remain somewhat anonymous

 

[atblis]

So

Did we ever figure out where his grandparents are from? I've actually always kinda wondered that. Csaba Csere is another name that I always see and wonder. Just now bothered to look that one up. I was guessing Turkish, but it is in fact Hungarian.

 

[massad ayoob]

El Tejon, I tossed that off too quickly and upon review, didn't phrase what I was trying to say clearly enough. What I was getting at is, I see a lot of folks on the boards who feel that new laws like Florida's, which include what some see as immunity from liability if a shooting in self-defense, as a shield against lawsuits. Those with that provision are too new to see yet how well that element is really going to work. In one FL case, prosecutor said he wasn't going to prosecute because he didn't believe he could get a conviction, which leaves shooter not exonerated by "no true bill" or any indication from criminal justice system that it was indeed self-defense.

I should have been clearer. Thanks for catching it.

 

[Jim Watson]

When did you move to Florida from the Frozen North?
I saw you at the Florida State IDPA in Orlando and thought that a long haul from N.H. But it wasn't, was it?

 

[armoredman]

Mas, some day I hope to meet you, if just to shake your hand, if you'll let an old knuckle dragging prison guard that close. Thank you for all you've done to keep people safe. I feel many good people are breathing, and many bad ones are not, because of your teachings. I am actually rereading your book In The Gravest Extreme right now. Still very good stuff - but would you consider writing an updated version?

 

[Doug S]

I’ve often wondered about the ethnic origin of Massad Ayoob’s name. Not because I’m prejudice, but because I’ve enjoyed reading his writings through the years, and quite frankly the name is somewhat unusual. I often get questioned about my surname, and I’ve never found the question offensive. My paternal grandparents were both from Lebanon. I’m Christian, not Muslim, and I'm very fond of firearms. If someone questions the ethnicity of my name in an appropriate manner, I certainly have no problem with that. It can actually open up some very good conversation. Our society seems to be becoming a little too thin-skinned concerning such matters. Maybe it's my anthropology background, but I enjoy the topic. We’ve got enough to worry about in 2007 America, than to allow the liberal mainstream to make us so overly sensitive, that we can’t discuss a simple thing like a name. Now, if one chooses not to discuss such info, in a forum such as this one, for personal/confidentiality reasons (or simply maybe because the just don't care to), then I can accept that point of view. I only wanted to comment on the oversensitivity that some people seem to have regarding such everyday topics of discussion, such as, where a name originated.

Mr. Ayoob, if you do read this, like many of the others here, I'd like to say that I do enjoy your writing. In particular, I found "In the Gravest Extreme" enlightening. The first gun magazine that I purchased was your 1998 "The Complete Book Of Handguns" (I still have it), and it was what prompted me to get my concealed carry permit, and purchase my first CCW firearm. These even helped to "convert" my wife, who is now very pro-gun. Also, if you don't find the question too personal, I would be interested to know the origin of your name. Thanks.

 

[LaibYechiel]

My wife and I had the pleasure of taking LFI-1 in December of 2006. Believe me, it is the best investment of time and money you could ever make for SD training.

The best way to describe it would be to imagine a garage band guitarist being able to study with Eric Clapton. Yep, I can't wait for LFI-II to be scheduled for Florida (c'mon Mas, please, huh, huh, pretty please).

In the meantime...

Peace and blessings,
Laib Yechiel (Rabbi Lar)

 

[JohnKSa]

In one FL case, prosecutor said he wasn't going to prosecute because he didn't believe he could get a conviction, which leaves shooter not exonerated by "no true bill" or any indication from criminal justice system that it was indeed self-defense.

I'll admit that I've also been a bit skeptical that a failure to prosecute constitutes "justification under the law" which is the requirement for civil immunity under the statute...

Do you think a "no bill" from a Grand Jury would be sufficient or will it require an acquittal?

 

[Just Jim]

JUST JIM: Sorry the Colt Officers didn't work out for you. I carry different guns at different times, depending what I'm doing and what gun I'm testing.

It was the best lesson you could ever give on handguns. Just because it is the gun of the month doesn't mean it is worth a hoot, no matter who tells you it is. No hard feelings.

I do like your writing on gunfights, seems you can report in a fashion that gives a great mental image.

jj

 

[One of Many]

Concerning family names and national origin; It may be impossible for national origin of some people to be identified by the family name. My family name is one that has been listed in US census records all of the way back to the first census; the family name has been spelled 5 or 6 different ways, from one census to another over the past 200 or so years. In rural areas of the country, very few people could read or write, and the census taker would write the name based on his idea of the pronunciation the family used.

We do not know what the origin of the family name is, or when the first family member arrived on the continent; it doesn't make us any better or worse for only being known as 'Americans', because we can't claim to be descended from some ancient land and culture. The only thing certain is that we have as much, and no more, right to be called American as any other person whose family arrived here legally, and adapted to the local culture.

What matters is not where a person originated, but where he decides to plant and make new roots; to grow and build instead of slash and burn. To arrive here legally, assimilate socially, work and prosper, raise a family with respect for others, obey the laws; these are the important things. This country is large enough that people from extreme corners have widely different speech inflections and accents, even different phrases and words to mean the same thing; it is a mistake to assume that because a person 'sounds funny' that they are somehow less valuable to society, or even a threat to society. You may not understand every thing the person says, but eventually your ears (and brain) will start to make sense of what you hear; it happened to me when I moved to Tennessee - took a few months before I heard every thing 'normally', and I doubt the local people changed the way they spoke.

I wish I could still watch and listen to Mas and Tom on PDTV. Charter Cable recently moved the Outdoor Channel from extended basic to the digital area of their service, and I do not want to use a converter box, and pay a higher fee to see just one channel.

Is there any chance that the previous season's shows of PDTV could be made available for download over the internet?

 

[Just Jim]

No really the Colt Officers model when it came out with great fanfare had some serious problems. The recoil spring would lose it's keeper and fly out of the gun as you shot it. The tube that holds the spring detent on the side of the gun holds your safety in place and your slide stop in place would fly off the side of the gun while you shot it. Both events were death for sure in a gunfight.

I learned that just because an expert is paid to sell his name and a gun it doesn't mean the gun is any good. A man has to forget that his hard earned dollars that went for the gun and his dollars that paid to learn from an expert doesn't mean you get what you pay for.

Looking back though Mas it was the best thing that could happen as it taught me a lesson that will always will be remembered. For that I thank you as it saved me so much money after that hard lesson. I owe you a great deal.

jj

 

[CDignition]

Does Mas Ayoob have a schedule for training classes in Florida?

 

[massad ayoob]

John, it's hard to say. Traditionally, the grand jury ruling no true bill has been seen as exoneration. It's going to come down to how the courts interpret the law. Historically, judges have not looked with favor on laws that took away their discretion (as, in this case, to determine whether to dismiss a suit), and there are loopholes. I can see judges deciding that if the plaintiff alleges negligence, they may find the matter triable. We'll have to see how it shakes out and what precedents develop, and that'll take a while. I just think it's a little early to assume that these laws will make folks in those states as lawsuit-proof as they should.

 

[Moondancer]

Longer than 20 Years

I first took note of Mas Ayoob's writings in an old martial arts magazine, long since discontinued. IIRC, it was an issue of Karate Illustrated, a sister publication to (the still in print) Black Belt magazine.

Again, IIRC, the article was about the use of the PR-24 side-handle baton and it's evolution from the Okinawan tonfa. I soon noticed Mas' byline on articles in gun rags of the day. Recalling my own MA career, that would have made the article come out somewhere in the early-to-mid seventies, so he's be writing for 30 years, not 20.

Damn, I'm old!

 

[LaibYechiel]

CDignition,

For a complete schedule of LFI classes see http://www.ayoob.com/

From what I can see it appears that the only classes in Florida are LFI -I scheduled for December 6-9, 2007, and LFI-IV on November 11-17, 2007.

I am still hoping for LFI-II in Florida either late 2007 or spring / winter of 2008.

Laib Yechiel

 

[JohnKSa]

We'll have to see how it shakes out and what precedents develop, and that'll take a while. I just think it's a little early to assume that these laws will make folks in those states as lawsuit-proof as they should.

A good friend of mine often comments that a law isn't a law until it's been tested in court.

I hate the wait and see, and I hate even more that someone's going to have to be the test case.

Thanks.