MD AWB Live Update 2-10-04

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Norton

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Been receiving some live updates from Brother Spot77 who is at the hearing today for the MD AWB in Annapolis.

As of 12:00pm he said there were approximately 400 pro-gunners (woohoo!) at the doors to the hearing and no sign as of that time of the anti's. They were gathering at another location IIRC.


READ THE FOLLOWING CAREFULLY:

Some things that Spot77 were important: They ARE keeping a rolling tally of the phone call throughout the day and your continuing phone calls are of paramount importance throughout today, Tuesday February 10. if you can make one call or 20 calls...please do it.





Continue laying on the heat and we may just pull this off!!

Way to go all of you folks who could make it today.....we owe you big time for your efforts.

More updates as the afternoon progresses.
 
I just got back from Annapolis. I wished I could have stayed the whole time but my boys were tired and I should not have worn 4 inch heels. :p

It was great to see the amount of people on "our side"! I only saw a small group of about 5 antis and they were standing in the corner like scared mice. :neener:

I was glad to see Don Dwyer by the door letting us know he is on our side. There may have been more, but he is the one I recognized. Let's all remember to thank the ones who stood up for us when everything is said and done. *crosses fingers*

To the THR members I met today: Nice to meet you and hope to see you at the range! (Or plan another get-together)
 
Girlwithagun:

So the huge turnout projected by the anti's never appeared? Excellent:cool:





3:15pm....no new news from the front....more as I get the info
 
Just got home a little while ago. Nice meeting you gwag, and the two boys. I don't think I could have handled them, but you're a little younger.

The unofficial vote tally was 5 to 5 out of 11. Apparantly one came over to our side.

State Police, Sheriffs and FOP all oppose the bill and testified so. One of the senators from Baltimore was the biggest ***** I have ever heard. How did he get elected? Oh, that's right he's from Baltimore (Nothing against Baltimorians, I have some friends who live there.)

The testimony may go on for a while. I may call the local tavern later and page some folks I know to learn the outcome.

Met Cliff and Chaim (again), Jeepdriver, K-Romulus and identified Spot77 later, but didn't get a chance to chat. He switched suits on me.

As soon as I hear more, I'll post.

(Edited for anecdote)

Chaim and I were standing in the lobby of the hearing room. He was wearing his yarmulke and Leah Barrett (MMM, ceasefire MD) must have thought he was a rabbi that was going to testify on their side and approched him. I guess he explained he wasn't on her side, but he sure could have had some fun with her.
 
Thanks for the update. Not to sound more dense than usual, but is 5 to 5 out of 11 good?

And I must express surprise that the MSP, Sheriffs, and FOP all oppose the bill. I've been outspoken about the anti-gun nature of the MSP, maybe I was wrong. But I thought they were all for getting any gun possible out of the hands of any citizen, be they law abiding or criminal? Guess I was wrong, won't be the first time!
 
The fact that these law enforcement agencies are coming out against the ban will be very good support for Erhlich. He said he would only support the ban if the state's law enforcement agencies came out in favor of it. The banners were making it well known that the Howard County Police/Sherrif were in favor of the ban....this may take some wind out of their sails.....
 
greyhound - I probably could have writen it better. Basicly the decision on the bill probably rests with one person. Supposedly as of this morning 4 were opposed, 5 were for and two were undecided.

So 5 to 5 is better than 12 hours ago.

Excerpts of the hearing will probably appear on WMPT (ch. 22) starting at midnight. They had a crew there. If they focus on any gunnies it will probably be the ONE guy dressed in camo as opposed to the 70 percent of guys in suits and women in dresses/slacks and the remainder in casual attire. They did film one boy ~ 11 sitting on the floor behind me wearing an 'I'm the NRA and I Vote' button. He was taking copious notes with the word 'EMOTION' written big enough for me to see it when the anti's were lying, I mean testifying.

It's a cliffhanger. Though we all gave it a good shot.
 
Thanks for the update. To all who took the time to defend my right to bear arms I THANK YOU from the buttom of my heart. I also thank you for my 2 young sons. I just about have all I want, but its the next generation of gun cuture you are fighting for.

My hats off to you. Hahza, Hahza, Hahza.

I will keep making calls. TRIPWIRE advised to call all week. I will keep making the calls.
:)
 
MikeK-

No, you were there and I wasn't so my hat's off to you for keeping us updated.

Yikes, this is close. Does anyone know how Haines from Carroll County stood? I can't believe a Carroll County pol could support gun grabbing.

In any event, I just mailed another snail mail to Gov. Erlich urging veto if it gets that far. I can only hope not.

Thanks one again to all those that could make it. I take it these things never happen on the weekend, but maybe next time I can take a personal day....
 
I'm writing from school so I can't be here long (I'm taking Computerized Accouting so I can get online).

Anyway, when I got there Girlwithagun was by the door and "recognized" me (it was the first we ever met- what gave me away :p ) and I talked with her for a moment before heading upstairs to the meeting room with MikeK who was also at the door. The crowd was huge- the overflow crowd in the hallway in front of the meeting room was shoulder to shoulder. Just going by those wearing pins we were probably 3 or 4 to 1 v. those without any identifiers or who were anti and I'm sure quite a few without any pins were on our side (heck, until the break when Scott/Spot77 gave me an extra pin I didn't have any) so I'd guess we were 4 or 5 to 1 v. actual antis.

They first gave their people one hour then ours. The MSP spokesperson was the first to speak for us. He did ok (though I wasn't pleased by his support of all our current laws- they only oppose this one since "at this time it is unnecessary"), but the antis on the comittee kept him there for 45 minutes of our hour by asking unrelated questions (he's testifying on the MD AWB and he's being asked his opinion of the Federal ban sunset, other gun laws, etc. and they keep repeating their questions). After him we got two more people (Sanford Abrams of Valley Guns and the president of some MD gunstore prof association, and the spokesperson for the FOP)- they too were asked about unrelated laws and to their credit they didn't waste time and try to answer them, also the Balt. City Senator tried to paint Abrams as responsible for every "kid" killed in the city since he sells guns:banghead: .

Then, after our three speakers (the other side when they testified earlier got far more than three), they took a 1 hr break to get to other business. Many people there on our side thought the repeated asking of unrelated questions of the MSP was to delay and keep too many of ours from talking before the break and I'm not sure they are wrong. The "break" went over an hour, and by the time it was done most of the crowd left- they may well have designed that to lower the pro-gun numbers for the cameras.:scrutiny:

Mike, I am sorry I didn't come up with something better than a cold stare and a hard "no" for Ms. Barrett when she thought I was the Baltimore Hebrew Congregation (a local Reform synagogue) rabbi who was speaking. Oh well, maybe next time.

Anyway, I should go, and that is pretty much all I have to add.



edit:

Almost forgot, when we returned from the break they decided to limit everyone to only 2 minutes and told us if we oppose the bill to simply state that and only give more testimony than that if we have something new to add:banghead: (please someone else who was inside the gallery at the time tell me I misheard)


Ok, this time I mean it. I need to get back to my classwork so I'll be gone until class is over. I'll check back in a couple hours.
 
It was an interesting day.

I agree the Senator from Baltimore was an ???????.

I didn't know what to expect when I got there, as it was my first time at anything like that, but I glad I went. After seeing the way our goverment functions, I'm amazed anything gets done.
 
Chaim - no need to apologize. I never think of good comebacks until an hour or so later.

But.........."Ms. Barrett I am sorry that I can no longer testify on behalf of your cause. After listening to the arguments I have been convinced that this bill is wrong. I will testify against it and urge my congregation to purchase assault rifles." might have gotten an interesting reaction.
 
But.........."Ms. Barrett I am sorry that I can no longer testify on behalf of your cause. After listening to the arguments I have been convinced that this bill is wrong. I will testify against it and urge my congregation to purchase assault rifles." might have gotten an interesting reaction.

LMAO. :evil:

Good job guys, sorry I couldnt be there. :(

Kharn
 
Just got back -stayed to the end

Everything those guys said about the first "Session" is right.

When the second go-round came, the anti-gun-owner crowd had about 6-9 more people to testify (including the rabbi - who was sitting near me and who I knew was probably not the red-headed THR'r we all know).

When they were done, there were about another 6-9 anti-288 "scheduled" speakers, then they turned the floor over. I think there was a two minute rule for the first 20 or so people - luckily I was one of those 20. I got up and said what I had to say about the 2 versions of the bill: the PR "weapons of war" version, and the actual nuts and bolts text of the bill. I thought I had three minutes, but man, that bell went off pretty fast.

I was able to get in how the bill text is way broader in terms of gun-banning than its proponents have been letting on. For instance, a "copycat" weapon is defined as anything that "can accept" (1) a magazine and (2) any of a host of "evil" features. The rub is that most semi-auto rifles can be retro-fitted with "evil stocks," and pretty much any semi-auto handgun can have a threaded barrel slapped into it. So, therefore, all of these types of firearms would be banned as "copycat assault weapons."

I hope people were listenting. The bad part was that Frosh, Forehand, and Hughes(?) weren't there to hear our side of the second session.:rolleyes:
 
Sorry I missed the rest of you guys. Since there were so many guys there and only one Mom with two little boys, I left it up to everyone to find me. Hopefully we'll meet at a future shoot.
 
K rom: That was you? wow....sorry we didn't get to meet..... I was the one spouting how this bill divides the citizens of MD, eradicates a culture, etc. I was one of the ones cut down to speaking for just one minute.

I was proud to state where I was from, since Senator Jimeno lives in my neighborhood. I needed him to know that his constituents oppose this.

I left around 6:30. After being there fir 10 hours, I was one hungry and grumpy diabetic:D

I was EXTREMELY proud to be there with the THR members and many of the other fine people I met - Sandy Abrams of Valley Gun, Lou from Shooters' Discount, Rose and Bob Holden....all fine people.

As I heard it, the "Official" tally of pro SB288 people in attendance was 17. That's easily second or third hand info though....


MikeK...I'm sorry we didn't get to meet either. I was sitting in the front row/right and didn't want to lose my seat, so I didn't get up for almost 8 hours.....I even sat through the other bills that were being proposed.

KEEP SENDING THE EMAILS!!:fire: :fire: We're close to a victory....remember this was just a hearing so we still need to influence the vote!!!!


Senator Hughes threw out the "But you're all baby killers and blood will fill the streets if we don't pass this bill" card. My favorite laugh came when he said, "Does the State Police care about the deaths of black babies in Baltimore City?"


....to which I would've replied, "No sir. MD State Police have no jurisdiction in Baltimore City per your City Council vote, remember?"

I will be emailing like a fool tomorrow.....cuz MD THR'ers are ON FIRE!:fire:
 
"I hope people were listenting. The bad part was that Frosh, Forehand, and Hughes(?) weren't there to hear our side of the second session.'

Doesn't matter anyway. They're all sponsors of SB288 and will NEVER vote against it.

Frosh and Hughes are BIG ???????s.
 
I was EXTREMELY proud to be there with the THR members and many of the other fine people I met - Sandy Abrams of Valley Gun, Lou from Shooters' Discount, Rose and Bob Holden....all fine people.
Oh yes, I kind of enjoyed it when you, Lou and I were standing against a wall during "intermission" and the pimply faced girl (college student?) there for a bill in front of another committee and wanted to know why all these guys were there with NRA pins on (I guess we were the friendliest looking of the dozens of guys she could have gone to). I don't think any of us had the energy to debate or educate at that moment but I found it humorous somehow- though it was mixed, she told us she is for guns and likes the NRA but the AWB is the one gun control bill/law she is for:rolleyes: . It was also pretty cool to meet Mr. Abrams- I think he too thought I was that Reform rabbi (actually I'm pretty sure he knew I wasn't, especially since I had your NRA pin by then, but he used it to open the conversation).

All in all, I actually enjoyed it and I wasn't pleased I had to leave early. I wish I could have testified as well, but knowing I had to leave by 5 and how crowded it was I knew I couldn't. The whole thing was kind of energizing- watching the wheels of government rolling makes me think even more about laying the groundwork to move into politics in the next few years.
 
Baltimoresun.com now has an article online about today's hearings which will be in Wednesday's paper. Thanks to all of you who were able to attend today and did attend. I greatly appreciate it. Whose is the Senator from Baltimore who was a real a-hole? Why do you think so many police departments opposed the bill? I was quite surprised by that. Do you think that is Erlich's influence? Can someone suggest a list of which legislators we should continue to call or email?
 
hughes?

Is that him? Is he a bigger a$$ than New jersey's Corzine? Now THERE'S a real conceited a-ring!
C-
 
Here is a link to the article RM referenced: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-guns0210,0,3371998.story?coll=bal-local-headlines

and the article:

From Wednesday's Sun
Md. lawmakers hear gun-ban testimony
Backers, opponents argue over statistics on slayings
By Kimberly A. C. Wilson
Sun Staff
Originally published February 10, 2004, 9:10 PM EST


For state lawmakers, gun-control advocates, police commissioners and even candidates stumping for president, when it comes to the issue of banning assault weapons, one-in-five is the magic number.


Democratic presidential primary front-runner Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts uses the statistic. So does the Episcopal Church of America. And in Annapolis, where a Senate committee heard testimony Tuesday from all sides on a proposed assault weapons ban, supporters quoted the statistic verbatim: "One in five law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty is killed with an assault weapon."

There's just one problem with the ratio, according to gun rights advocates: It isn't true.

Dozens of them testified before the Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee Tuesday, and a hundred more crammed an antechamber while committee members considered a bill that would give Maryland one of the nation's strictest bans on semiautomatic firearms by ban ning 45 named weapons and any subsequent copycats. Though 70 state senators and delegates back the bill, gun shop owners, hunting groups, and assorted police organizations rejected the ban and the statistic.

Lt. Col. Steven. T. Moyer of the Maryland State Police [em dash] which opposes prohibiting the sale, transfer and ownership of semi-automatic weapons [em dash] told committee members that of the 50 rifle-related deaths in the state over the past decade, none of them were officers.

"The statistics are not here and [don't] support this legislation," he said.

Roots of the 20-percent figure lie in the Washington-based Violence Policy Center, a nonprofit group that works to curtail gun violence through research, advocacy, education and litigation. The group analyzed unpublished FBI data on fatal police shootings from Jan. 1, 1998, through Dec. 31, 2001. During the period, 211 officers nation wide were slain in the line of duty, 41 of them with weapons the group determined to be assault weapons, such as M1 Carbines, AK-47s, Tec 9s and AR- 15s.

"They classified all rifles as assault weapons," Republican Sen. Nancy Jacobs, wearing a button with the words "MARYLAND GUNOWNERS VOTE," complained during the marathon hearing.

Not so, said Kristen Rand, the Violence Policy Center's legislative director, in a telephone interview.

"All we did was we called the FBI, we asked them if we could get a list of guns used to kill police officers," Rand said. "We took those instances where we knew for sure that it was an assault weapon and put them together. I think the confusion comes in that this data is not routinely released."

The data, summarized in the organization's "Officer Down" report, includes the model number and bullet caliber used in police shootings from Alaska to New York. Among the fatalities is the Oct. 20, 2000, death of Baltimore County Police Officer John Stem, the last Maryland officer to die from wounds inflicted by an assault weapon. Stem sustained the wounds during a barricade shooting in 1977 that left him paralyzed and killed a fellow officer.

New York Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy, whose husband was killed by Colin Ferguson during the 1993 Long Island Railroad shooting, is sponsoring a bill on Capitol Hill to renew the federal assault weapons ban that will expire on Sept. 13, a ban prompted in part because officers complained of being outgunned by criminals on city streets. McCarthy, a Democrat, said she has noted the one-in-five statistic in the past because it harkens to the main purpose of the ban.

"Let's go back to the reason we passed the assault weapons ban in the first place: That was because our police officers were outgunned and they were being killed by these guns," McCarthy said.

Howard County Police Chief G. Wayne Livesay, president of the Maryland Chiefs of Police, one of the few law enforcement organization supporting the ban, agreed.

"It's our responsibility to protect our officers on the street, and that's why we're here," Livesay testified.

For its part, the FBI disavows any part in the hubbub. The agency's statistics, gathered from police and sheriff's departments around the country, aren't intended to shape politics said spokesman Paul Bresson.

The fate of Maryland's proposed ban is uncertain. The 11-member Senate committee is split down the middle, according to Jacobs. Five favor the ban; five oppose it. The swing vote is Sen. John A. Gianetti Jr., a Democrat from Anne Arundel and Prince George's counties.
 
Here's an article from WBAL TV's website:

http://www.thewbalchannel.com/politics/2837724/detail.html

Gun Owners, Gun Control Advocates Renew Long Rivalry

POSTED: 5:58 PM EST February 10, 2004

ANNAPOLIS, Md. -- Gun owners and gun control advocates renewed their long-standing legislative battle Tuesday at an emotional hearing on a bill to ban sale of semiautomatic rifles and shotguns in Maryland.

Gun owners showed up in force, packing the Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee room and an adjacent hallway, many wearing bright red badges reminding lawmakers that gun owners vote.

In case the message wasn't clear enough, there was also a sprinkling of "Cas Who?" buttons, a reminder of the role gun owners played in defeating former House Speaker Casper Taylor two years ago.

There were far fewer supporters of the bill sponsored by Montgomery County Sen. Rob Garagiola, D-District 15, but they told committee members that a majority of Marylanders are on their side, (Senate Bill 288; Senate Bill 318)

The committee appeared to be closely divided on the issue, but Garagiola said he thinks he has the six votes needed to get it out of committee.

"I know we have a majority of support on the Senate floor as well," he said. The challenge will be to overcome an anticipated attempt by opponents to kill the bill with a filibuster, Garagiola said.

Gov. Robert Ehrlich voted against an assault weapons ban in Congress and does not support Garagiola's bill, Shareese DeLeaver, a spokeswoman for the governor, said Monday. But she said he has not gone so far as to say he would veto the bill if it reaches his desk.

"I'm hopeful we will get a bill to the governor, and I'm hopeful he will sign it," Garagiola said.

One of the witnesses who spoke for the bill was Victoria Snider, whose brother was one of the victims of the sniper shootings in Montgomery County in 2002.

"I felt as if I were in a nightmare," Snider as she related having to tell her parents "that their only son was dead."

"I urge you to support the assault weapons ban," she said. "This bill would ban weapons of war."

Opponents of the bill said it would do nothing to reduce crime, but would penalize law-abiding Marylanders who collect guns or who use semiautomatic rifles for hunting, target practice and competitive shooting.

"Gun bans don't work," Sanford Abrams, owner of Valley Gun Shop in Baltimore County, said.

Abrams angered Sen. Ralph Hughes when he tried to tell the Baltimore Democrat he was confusing automatic weapons such as machine guns with semiautomatics, which fire once each time the trigger is pulled.

"I'm not confusing the issue," Hughes responded. "It's the guns that you sell that are killing people."

Abrams calmly stood his ground, insisting that the bill would do nothing to reduce use of guns by criminals or save lives.

Hughes stalked out of the room after the exchange.

Garagiola's bill was introduced because a federal ban on the sale of semiautomatic rifles and shotguns that was enacted 10 years ago is expected to expire in September. Maryland bans the sale of semiautomatic pistols, but not long guns.

State police officials, who supported gun control measures during the administration of former Gov. Parris Glendening, opposed Garagiola's bill at the hearing.

Stephen Moyer, head of the state police Homeland Security and Intelligence Bureau, said while the Washington-area snipers - Lee Boyd Malvo and John Muhammad - used one of the semiautomatic weapons that would be banned by Garagiola's bill, "the fact is that a single-shot hunting rifle would have done more damage. ..."

"These rifles [semiautomatics] are not being used in crimes," Moyer said. "A ban on these weapons punishes law abiding citizens."

Law enforcement officers split on whether the bill should be passed, with the state Fraternal Order of Police joining state police in urging that it be rejected.

But Howard County Police Chief Wayne Livesay, president of the Maryland Chiefs of Police Association, said semiautomatic weapons present an added danger to police officers.

"We are asking you to ban them ... before someone gets killed," he said.

Yes, the Baltimore City Senator is Hughes. There is a good description in the article about the exchange between him and Mr. Abrams (well, a shortened description that doesn't begin to represent how insulting Sen. Hughes was to Mr. Abrams and really to all gun sellers and owners).
 
That oughtta motivate folks. Let's cut these prigs and the VPC/Brady bunch off at the knees.

Keep'em coming, folks.


Judicial Proceedings Committee
Brian E. Frosh ,Chair (410) 841-3124, (301) 858-3124
[email protected]

Leo E. Green ,Vice-Chair (410) 841-3631, (301) 858-3631
[email protected]

James Brochin (410) 841-3648, (301) 858-3648
[email protected]

Jennie M. Forehand (410) 841-3134, (301) 858-3134
[email protected]

Robert J. Garagiola (410) 841-3169, (301) 858-3169
[email protected]

John A. Giannetti, Jr. (410) 841-3141, (301) 858-3141
[email protected]

Larry E. Haines (410) 841-3683, (301) 858-3683
[email protected]

Ralph M. Hughes (410) 841-3656, (301) 858-3656
[email protected]

Nancy Jacobs (410) 841-3158, (301) 858-3158
[email protected]

Philip C. Jimeno (410) 841-3658, (301) 858-3658
[email protected]

Alex X. Mooney (410) 841-3575, (301) 858-3575
[email protected]


If we kill this POS from a HUGE liberal state now, the VPC/Brady bunch won't have a leg to stand on when the Federal Ban comes around for review.

Just food for thought.
S.
 
The Sunpapers states that 5 Senators are on record as for the ban and 5 opposed. I know some, but could someone please list which side each Senator is on? It would help me with emails.
 
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