Miami, Cops Taser man in Wheelchair.

[Sindawe]

It appears to me that the use of a TASER is, in some cases and by some LEOs, becoming more of a first response item when a LEO encounters any resistance to their directives or the heinous crime of disrespect of cop.

An article came up on Sierratimes.com yesterday that has relevance to this discussion. Excerpt below...

...In Baytown, Texas, a man suffering from epileptic seizures was stunned while in the ambulance by one of Baytown's finest because he was resisted being strapped onto a stretcher while in post-seizure confusion. An Internal Affairs investigation into the incident found that the officer had not violated any policies. Right. The shepherd uses a staff and dogs to herd the sheep.

Also in Baytown, Naomi Autin, a 59-year-old disabled woman, was reportedly TASED three times by police officer Micah Aldred in July 2003 for banging on her brother’s door with a brick. She was collecting his mail and keeping an eye on his house while he was away serving a sentence for drug possession. Mrs. Autin called the Police herself to help her get in, when she became worried that her brother's house sitter may have come to some grief, since they were not answering the door. In her lawsuit, she states she was TASED in the back because she kept banging on the door, the door of property she held effective control over, and remember, she was the one that called the cops to "protect and serve” her interests. When the officers would not help, she told them to leave, and went back to banging on the door. She states Aldred told her to stop and then TASED her. She fell, causing a sever head laceration requiring 17 stitches to close. Mrs. Autin, is 5 feet 2 and suffers from severe arthritis. Hence the need for a brick to knock on the door...

Source: http://www.sierratimes.com/04/12/22/tarsikes12222004.htm

I will not deny that the TASER does have a place in LEOs tool kit, and can be quite an effective item to obtain compliance in a dangerous situation. However, I fear that it is becoming over used in circumstances when people skills are more appropriate.

 

[standingbear]

I will not deny that the TASER does have a place in LEOs tool kit, and can be quite an effective item to obtain compliance in a dangerous situation. However, I fear that it is becoming over used in circumstances when people skills are more appropriate.

indeed.there are times when its use is appropriate and times when its not.I especially agree with your last sentance as one would hope "people-skills" are the 1 tool thats used most but the taser to some seems an quick solution to a complex problem.

 

[ExtremeDooty]

The armchair quaterbacks on this board get a lot of milage out of stuff like this. One reason is that they have never been in a postion to have to deal with people like this. And as has been mentioned countless times, it is real easy to sit back in your own home and second guess those that HAVE to deal with these kinds of problems.

In general, I think that the tazer is an excellent option for LEO's. I found the video posted elsewhere on this board to be not only a justified use of the tazer but quite entertaining as well.

OTOH...I get a little tired hearing what a dangerous job LEO's have and how the rest of us (anyone not a cop) have never been there. Roofers, construction workers, and convenience store clerks have dangerous jobs and face potential death and injury every day, unarmed.

As an 18 year old orderly in a state hospital, I had to deal with "older mental patients" on a regular basis. Workers in mental hospitals and retirement homes face this threat every day, unarmed. If your job is too "difficult or dangerous," get out and stop whining about it.

And even those of us that are not involved in law enforcement have plenty of life experience that qualifies us to "second guess" on a whole lot of subjects. You don't have to be a cow to decide if your steak is well done.

 

[50 Freak]

I agree completely. I'm tired of hearing how dangerous being a LEO is.

Try being an unarmed civilian walking to their parked car at night in Compton or East LA. Or living in some vagrant infested city. It's pretty damn dangerous being a civilian these days. We are dying left and right in every city.

My solution would to be make CCW legal and open to anyone who passes all the hoops involved. You'll see a drastic drop in crime as criminals will start thinking of attacking civilians as playing russian roulete. Who is armed and who is not???

 

[Ryder]

Guess I am the only one, but...

I can't help but wonder if the guy wouldn't have gotten so defensive if they really had a reason to arrest him in the first place. What's he accused of? Raising his voice? Ohhhhh, he threw a pop can. Scarey guy! Guess I better put all mine in the safe.

IF that is a crime and IF he were convicted of it he will forever lose his 2nd ammendment rights? Try that on me and see if things don't get serious in a hurry.

It's not the people's fault the laws are screwed up. Can't really blame the cops either. I feel sorry for all involved.

 

[DMF]

6, 16, or 66, male, or female, able bodied, or in a wheelchair, etc, etc - given the right circumstances anyone can be a serious threat.

So he's in a wheelchair, and that bothers people. For the people that object to this use of the TASER please explain to me how you would approach, subdue, and arrest someone who is violent and has an edged weapon? Play this game, have a friend sit in a chair with a training blade, and you go and try to take it away, and put a pair of cuffs on him. I suspect your friend will be able to take MANY stabs and slices that connect, and would cause you serious injury or death if it were a pair of scissors, or a knife, rather than a training blade.

 

[rock jock]

Makes me wonder if a Civilians killed, injured or tasered someone because he was "in fear of his life" how many of them would be jail right now.

Well, as non-LEOs, you and I don't have to take these people into custody. Also, if you are truly in fear for your life, you absoultely can take whatever action is reaonable, which would incluide force a heck of a lot more deadly than a Taser.

 

[c_yeager]

I'm no great fan of excess force, but how exactly is anyone supposed to restrain a crazy old person without resorting to physical violence? Getting zapped is better than getting beaten or smashed to the floor.

Yes, this is why hospitals around the world utilize the TASER for the purpose of managing the violently insane. Oh wait, you mean not a single mental hospital in the entire country has a TASER in its inventory? They deal with these people using gloved hands and restraints only? Oh my.

On the other hand I have no problem with Law Enforcement applying the TASER to every lowlife that they meey simply on general principles, wheelchair bound or no.

 

[Rich K]

Let me start by saying that I am not LEO,but a paramedic.That being said,two of thew toughest pts I have had to restrain were a 4 y/o girl and a 80 y/o man with dementia.The 4 y/o needed sutures to her forehead,and fought until we wrapped her like a mummy on the gurney.The 80 y/o was having flashbacks to WWII and thought he was fighting the Japanese again.This is just an example,and doesn't include numerous drunks and psychos that I deal with every shift.The cops have a crummy job to do,and I say do what you have to do to go home at the end of your shift.Merry Christmas,and God Bless all.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

You'll see a drastic drop in crime as criminals will start thinking of attacking civilians as playing russian roulete. Who is armed and who is not???

But you object to the police using a TASER on an armed man? When you'd gladly see him shot dead by another citizen?

 

[sully]

The Law Enforcement employment of Tasers is to greatly aid in the reduction of injuries to both the Officers and Subjects that force is being used upon. The use of a Taser is a very minor intrusion when it comes to the propensity of injury that constitutes the use of force matrix. People in wheelchairs can exhibit great upper body strength, and when armed with scissors could present a great threat to not only Officers but themselves. The Officers choosing to use the Taser shows great restraint and care under the circumstances. Remember this is only part of the true information of what occured on this incident, as the media only likes to give partial facts and spin the information. Enough of the armchair quarterbacking until you have walked several miles wearing brown or blue.

Stay Safe,
Greg Sullivan "Sully"
Chief Instructor
www.thedefensiveedge.com

 

[50 Freak]

I have no problems with the LE community or civilians "blowing away" criminal scums. I think we have too many of them in jail as it is and it is a drain on our economy. I think there is something wrong with the fact the US has the highest number of people in jail compared to the rest of the world. That really bugs me. But that's off the subject.

As for the tasered guy. One, he was not a criminal. Whatever problems he had (mental or family or whatever) the fact he was in a wheel chair and wielding scissors (not a firearm) says to me, that he was not an immenient danger to the police (as they were able body and probably more manuverable than him). Thus that afforded the LE more options than just the taser. The taser should have been the last resort and not the first. Reason being....

I have a real problem with the headlines "police taser man in wheelchair". Tell me that doesn't make you wonder just a little about police brutality. I never said in any of my post he should or should not have been tasered. I was not there and can not make the judgement. My reservations are because most likely this will go to a jury and do you think they will side with the police that just came, and right off tasered a wheelchair bound person? Wonder who the jury will side with? Now how does it sound now if the jury heard, the police came, tried to negioate with the handicapped man and when all else failed tasered him for his own safety.

Or does it not even matter to you? It should as those multimillion dollar police brutality judgements that the jury on regular intervals have handing out have been coming out of your and mine pockets.

And as a taxpayer who has to pay your salary and the judgements whenever there is any kind of police brutality, accidental shooting etc. I believe the citizenry have a right to critic the police.

As for the LEO's that say we can't judge them because we don't know what it is like to walk in their shoes. Try walking in our shoes. We as a majority are unarmed, untrained, posess no body armor, taser or mace. Yet we are preyed upon daily by the scum that you are supposed to protect us from. I'm sure everyone here has either been a victim of or had family members been a victim of crime. We don't need to have the police also to brutilize or intimidate us.

Either way, lets drop it, and hope this doesn't go to trail, because I have a feeling if it did, the community that police officer came from will be a little poorer next year.

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[akviper]

There are a few tiny differences in LEO vs. Non. To use the LA shootout as an example, you see the cops rushing toward the sound of the gunfire and everybody else taking cover or running away (wisely in my opinion). I know it would have been great to see anyone, LEO or not, pull out their scoped 30-06 and take the bad guys out but it didn't happen. I also know that there are a few brave people on this board that would do their best to help but most will avoid intentionally going in harms way. Play the "what if" game a little more on the wheelchair incident. What if the cops backed off and the guy ended up killing or injuring the others in the house. How many zeros would have been on the check then? My state requires LEOs to personally experience getting Tazed during training before they can carry it. Ditto for OC spray. Once you have "ridden the bull" or participated in a "stringer contest" you think long and hard before you use them.

 

[Orthonym]

My Own Experience, or "Upper-Body Strength Among the Gimpy"

I recall trying to get my Lifesaving merit badge, when I was a boy scout. It was required for Eagle, so I had to do it. (parents wouldn't leave me alone othrwise)

To set it up; I've always been a classic scrawny ectomorph, all skin and bones and nerves, not much muscle or fat. I cannot float in fresh water without moving some part or other.

Well, I had to go see the Merit Badge Counselor and have him pretend to be a fixin' to die drowning man while I pretended to save his life.

It turned out he was a paraplegic. He nearly drowned ME!
The man had the arms of a gorilla!

That said, I think something like um "putting a spoke in his wheel" might have sufficed in the wheelchair incident.
Really, can a guy in a wheelchair push it faster than a cop can move? Tip the chair, if yer really frightened of the gimp.

P.S. and parenthetically: They made me take Drownproofing at Ga. Tech, and it works great. If I fell overboard in the middle of the ocean, I betcha I could stay alive until found, or fish started eating me, whatever happened first.