Michigan epitomizes America's gun-loving culture

Status
Not open for further replies.

WAGCEVP

Member
Joined
May 26, 2003
Messages
864
Michigan epitomizes America's gun-loving culture

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No one knows how many guns there are in Michigan. The Michigan State Police say they couldn't even hazard a guess. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms says try the state police.

This is a state where only handguns are registered -- and even then only haphazardly. This is a state where getting a gun is a right of passage for a young boy. Where 700,000 licences are sold each November for the opening day of deer hunting season. Where you can get a free rifle for opening a bank account.

This is the state where a Grand Rapids mom bought her 15-year-old son an AK-47 clone from a local sporting goods store. And then that son tried to obliterate its serial number before packing it, along with its ammo, into a box labelled "aluminum baseball bat" and sending it by mail to a 15-year-old boy in Stoney Creek.

The boy in Stoney Creek is facing a bunch of charges after he allegedly took that assault rifle -- loaded on at least some occasions -- to an elementary school, a coffee shop, a New Year's Eve party and a classmate's home.

Charges still have not been laid against the Michigan teen. Lawyers are arguing over whether he should be prosecuted under state or federal laws.

It's not a shock the youths gravitated to one another while playing a violent Internet video game. Indeed, they have a lot in common. Their age, their 10th grade status, their low profile at school, their average grades, their lack of any previous trouble with police, at home or in school. Their obvious fascination with guns and computers.

What is very different, though, is the gun culture in each boy's community.

We know there aren't many kids in Stoney Creek -- in Canada -- who have access to AK-47s. Moms in this country generally do not bestow firearms upon their sons or daughters as gifts. We register our guns.

Now, welcome to Michigan.

This is the land of lakes and home of guns.

This is where, in the town of Flint, a six-year-old boy pulled a gun from his pants and fatally shot schoolmate Kayla Rolland in the neck in their Grade 1 classroom. The boy found the .32-calibre gun in the crack house he was living in.

Michigan is also the stomping grounds of gonzo filmmaker Michael Moore, whose look at America's gun-loving culture, Bowling for Columbine, won an Academy Award.

In the movie, we see Moore walk into a Michigan bank, open a new account and receive a shiny new rifle as a gift.

He also introduces us to some of Michigan's more strident gun advocates: James Nichols, friend and accomplice of Timothy McVeigh, the executed Oklahoma City bomber. Nichols confides to Moore that he sleeps with a loaded .44 revolver under his pillow. Rocker Ted Nugent, who is now as famous for his big game hunting and cache of weapons as he ever was for his music. And, of course, actor Charlton Heston, a native son and the most famous and controversial president the National Rifle Association has ever had.

It's not difficult to read the pulse of Michigan on the matter of guns. Call up any of the dozen or so gun shops in Grand Rapids, a city of 180,000 people, and the person at the other end of the line will be happy to chat about all-things guns.

"The AK-47 is a fun gun to shoot," says Tom Herbst, owner of a store called Gun Bugs. "But for someone to buy a gun like that for a 15-year-old, it's probably not appropriate."

AK-47s or their knockoffs can range in price from $90 to $500. They are no good for hunting, or for target shooting, says Herbst. About all they're good for is killing people.

"They're assault weapons," he says. "They're not lovingly referred to as sporting guns or hunting guns."

Still, Herbst owns one himself. Sometimes, after a day at the gun shop, he goes home, takes his AK-47 into the back yard, throws a milk jug up in the air and shoots it.

"The second amendment says anyone should have any kind of gun they want," he says. "Most people put it in their closet in case of an intruder or civil insurrection."

Over at Rylee's Ace Hardware Inc., Greg Burgenmeyer says he's not surprised at all to learn about a 15-year-old in his community with an assault rifle.

"To us, it doesn't shock us that much because in Michigan we have such a big hunting and shooting culture. To us, it's very American." He is a little surprised to know it was the boy's mother who bought the gun for him.

"It's usually Dad," Burgenmeyer says.
 
I am very upset that this article has not properly informed my on where to buy an AK47 for $90.

Also this hunting rifle nonsense is why I hunt with my SAR 1 at least once every year. If you can take a deer with a bow, you can take one with a SAR1 and a 5rd mag. Any rifle is the right rifle :fire: .
 
AK-47s or their knockoffs can range in price from $90 to $500. They are no good for hunting, or for target shooting, says Herbst. About all they're good for is killing people.
Wow. I did not know that. I've been sinning I guess since mine have only been used for hunting and target shooting.
 
Sometimes, after a day at the gun shop, he goes home, takes his AK-47 into the back yard, throws a milk jug up in the air and shoots it.

Mr. Herbst should be soundly beaten for playing up to the left wing whacko liberal media, and telling them what they hoped to hear...a shooter - nay, a gunshop owner - breaking several rules of safe firearm handling.

Way to go, guy. Remind me to flick a booger on his store's window next time I'm in him town.
 
just wondering, but how is that breaking any safety rules? there are PLENTY of places in michigan where you can do that, i can do that where i live, and so can all my neighbors.

Im sick of playing down my aks variant as a "legitimate" hunting and target rifle. I bought it just to piss off the liberal left because its so scary to them!! Its a great defense rifle, and i dont have to explain how im going to use it any more!!!

Next time you see a dork canadian, you should flick a booger on THEIR window.

PS; i love michigan, dont get much better than fishin all summer and shootin all winter! What a great compliment, the land of lakes and the home of guns! I also love the holidays in Michigan, everyone gets a new gun, and we have a good laugh at the stupid canadians because they probably get crappy gifts, like fruitcakes, and slipper socks!
 
25/20,

There are plenty of places in Michigan where you KNOW for a FACT that there are no people within several miles, and can shoot a centerfire rifle in the air?? :rolleyes: Rifles shouldn't be shot without a safe background. Period.

Anyone who pulls that trick isn't responsible enough to own guns and should probably be charged with reckless endangerment. Tom Herbst sounds like a complete twit and I hope many Michigan gun owners read this story and stop frequenting the Gun Bug.
 
The article makes it sound like MI is a gun paradise, with $90 AK's. Since MI doesn't allow Class III guns, I don't see how this is possible, but reporters are never wrong. I think I'll have to head over to GR and pick up a few AK's, an Uzi, a plastic x-ray proof Glock, and some armor piercing bullets for my 2 year old daughter. After all, it is a Michigan tradition.:rolleyes:
 
I live on a hill, where i can go to the bottom of our property, and shoot into the slope of another hill, also on my own property. of someone is on this property without my permission, and they happen to be frequenting the wooded hill that im shooting into, THATS THEIR FAULT.

Diggler, when is the last time you were in michigan, because i say again , there are PLENTY of places you can do this. For the most part, you CAN get away with it, because the land is not flat, and the bullet will hit the dirt before anything else. Dont judge what you dont know.

And dont dismiss Mr. Herbst as a twit. You are beleiving what the mass media says about a gun shop owner and enthusiast? who is the twit?Im sure they could make you look unsafe and stupid also, or me, or anyone else.

Gotta love the attitude. The media just needs to run an article like this, once a week, and people like you will eat it up and that is how we will lose the gun control battle, by picking each other apart because of a bunch of media b.s.
 
Actually, the last time I was in Michigan was a few months ago. I visit Michigan several times a year; my brother lives there.

of someone is on this property without my permission, and they happen to be frequenting the wooded hill that im shooting into, THATS THEIR FAULT.
I seriously doubt that a criminal/civil court would find a shooting like that as the other person's fault.

If you are shooting into a safe background, that is one thing. Good. If you are shooting a 7.62x39 bullet into the air, that is another thing entirely. Which is what Mr. Herbst alluded to.

I am not believing what the mass media says. I am reading what Mr. Herbst himself was quoted on. The point is what this guy said. Let's look at what good ol' Mr. Herbst said:

The AK-47 is a fun gun to shoot, but for someone to buy a gun like that for a 15-year-old, it's probably not appropriate."
Why? I'm considering buying a Yugo SKS for my 10 year old son to use while target shooting with me because of the short stock, light recoil and cheap ammo.
They are no good for hunting, or for target shooting, says Herbst. About all they're good for is killing people.
Sounds like someone who is squarely on the gunowners' side. HE'S the one doing the damage. Anti's can now say, "Look, this guy knows guns, he deals with them and even HE doesn't think they're good for anything!
"They're assault weapons," he says. "They're not lovingly referred to as sporting guns or hunting guns."
Who says? In many states, you can hunt with a semi auto if you have a magazine that holds 5 rounds. It's ballistically similar to a .30-30. Is a scoped match-grade AR-15 an ineffective groundhog/varmint gun? BTW, they're not actually assault weapons since they don't have full-auto capability. A gun enthusiast like Mr. Herbst should know that.

This guy with his off-the-cuff comments and opinionating does more damage to our cause than 100 screaming antis.
Sometimes, after a day at the gun shop, he goes home, takes his AK-47 into the back yard, throws a milk jug up in the air and shoots it.
If he really shoots into a safe background, THEN SAY IT! Be responsible and think of how things can sound to those on the fence. Like it or not, there is a public relations battle aspect of this, not just a legislative one. People need to remember that before they spout off to anyone with a microphone or mini-recorder. Just because he is a gun shop owner/enthusiast doesn't mean that he should get a free pass from the rest of the firearms community. If we don't police our own ranks, then you can bet that somebody else will.

He is still a twit.
 
diggler. i'm with you!

MOST of you saw what I saw in this article............ Don't we have enuff problems with antis spouting off lies without a so called gunowner/store owner spouting BS?!?!?!?!?
 
I got a VEPR K for my 16th birthday, and my mom got it for me too!
I guess im a nothing but a juvenile delinquent to the canadian anti's. oh well..:)

I dont know where they got the idea that MI was so pro-gun, the people are, especially in the northern parts. Not the government though:mad:
 

Attachments

  • guns.jpg
    guns.jpg
    105.1 KB · Views: 142
Were these quotes taken out of context? do the laws of gravity not apply to ppl shooting ak's? i have one , i wish i could get a milk just to FLOAT in the air. When im plinking on my property, i can just TOSS them out in the air too, but i wait for them to hit the ground, as i am not shooting a shotgun , but an ak. Im know there are plenty of pro-gun morons around too, but I am almost considering a trip out there, to see if he is really a moron, plus, 12 gun shops in 1 town!!:D

sweet, looks like a fun day, better save up for a month or two. all i have is williams for a serious gun shop, although they are about the best ive ever seen, anywhere.
 
I'm glad you shoot at your milk jugs on the ground, I'd hate to come up to visit my brother and see the skies lit up like Baghdad during nighttime bombing runs!

I think a lot of people when put in front of a reporter go into machismo mode and don't think about how things could be taken. It is up to us to make sure that our comments aren't taken out of context. At least this story can serve as a lesson on that!

And if they guy is a moron you still have the eleven other stores to spend your money :D
 
Michigan is a very anti-gun state, the only state where my knive, a Kershaw
assisted openning knive was illegal. Pepper spray has to be only 2% active ingreadients. Brass knuckles are outllawed, same as silencers and class 3 items.
The problem with Michigan, is Detriot, where it was the murder capital of the USA for years.
Most of Michigan is progun, where guns are accepted, we have a new CCW Law, pushed for years, and finally inacted. Things are changing here for the better.
Deer hunting, the biggest pasttime where I live, most able body men and boys over 14 and some ladies and girls, openning day, is like a State holiday, heck they let out the schools in some Northern Michigan districts.
So, there are two Michigans, Detriot, and the rest of Michigan. Hope that explains the situation to you....
Bye the way, don't ever talk to Newspaper or TV reporters, they will MISSQUOTE YOU EVERY TIME!
 
The AK-47 is a fun gun to shoot," says Tom Herbst, owner of a store called Gun Bugs. "But for someone to buy a gun like that for a 15-year-old, it's probably not appropriate."

AK-47s or their knockoffs can range in price from $90 to $500. They are no good for hunting, or for target shooting, says Herbst. About all they're good for is killing people.

"They're assault weapons," he says. "They're not lovingly referred to as sporting guns or hunting guns."

Still, Herbst owns one himself. Sometimes, after a day at the gun shop, he goes home, takes his AK-47 into the back yard, throws a milk jug up in the air and shoots it.


WOW.

Just.....whoa.....

There is a LOT of anti-gun garbage that gets posted here, but this "piece" is particularly insulting and devoid of anything resembling intelligence or fairness.

The author shows himself to have the mental capacity of the plastic Dixie cup that's sitting on my desk, only he's nowhere near as full.

This article is disgusting.

The last part makes it seem as if most gun owners (and "assault weapon" owners) treat their weapons with less care than toys; throwing milk jugs into the air and shooting them. :rolleyes: :banghead:

The idiot gun owner who was quoted is only slightly more mentally capable than the author.

Sick...
 
Ahh yes good old detroit is the problem here and since wayne county is in detroit it makes it a pain to do anything .. And yes lot of this state is anit gun espically the police
 
So since michael moore is from michigan, I'm going to write an article about how michigan is the birthplace of a lot of retards. (Heston excluded)
 
Dont even speak about the anti american moore ..wish that retard would fall off the face of the planet..


Edit: For my usual pisspoor spelling
 
Last edited:
Diggler, I know that reading this article this guy seems like a nut, but its obvious you can see through the writer's bs. Notice how the man is quoted that the assault rifle is only good for killing people. Just looking at that quote, would make someone scream murder, but what you don't see is what he says before and after that and his words can be taken out of context. I know many times when I told people the purpose of an assault rifle and if anyone wanted to pick it apart would make me look just as bad.

Also the comment about going out back and shooting a jug is not a direct quote( No quotations). It is a summarized interpretation of the writer. It does not go into detail about the person's surroundings and what it means by "throw" he could of tossed it infront of a dirt mound or hill.

Maybe this guy is an idiot or just another gun enthusiasts that has had his words skewed to fit the writer's agenda. It is not right to judge someone until all the facts are presented.
 
On the subject of Michigan vs. Canada's gun gulture as it relates to crime...


If you subtract the statistics for Wayne and Genesee county from the total you'll have a homicide rate equivalent to that of Ontario, Canada. Subtracting the statistics of Windsor and Toronto from the population of Ontario actually raises their homicide rate.

Michigan has a higher overall homicide rate than Ontario, but the gun culture exhibited in the outlying areas of Michigan has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
 
I am nowhere near the border, but it seems like there is a lot of Michigan vs. Canada going on here, at least as regards firearms.....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top