Mid size .380 pistols...

[Janos Dracwlya]

I love my Beretta Model 84F. There's lots of the 84-series out there as surplus right now.

It may not be the most practical gun, but after playing the old "TOP SECRET" RPG as a young person in the early-mid 80's, I had to have one (there's one on the box cover).

 

[Armored farmer]

I have been pretty impressed by .380 performance on targets, and flesh. I only have limited experiences with real flesh, but what I've found is that the caliber is acceptable. It makes nasty wounds. There are those that hang their hopes on 9mm, and denounce the .380. I wont. I think they're too close in performance to draw the line between them.
I certainly would like to try one of the larger .380 1911s, and would NOT be worried about carrying one as a ccw if it proved reliable.

 

[amd6547]

I didn't intentionally try to make it sound bad; I did try to be accurate.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
20 different 380 loads tested, two of them met desired minimum performance (consistent expansion and 12'' penetration)
Shot placement is not a guarantee, better performing ammo is desirable.
Which would I prefer in hand if I had to defend myself, a 380 or a 9mm? I'd prefer a 9mm.

well, as I said, I carry the Underwood XTP +P load, and I have confidence in it. My second choice right now would be the old Hydrashock load, which tests well. However, I’d feel plenty well armed with 14rds of a good quality ball load. I do agree that bullet selection is important.

 

[FL-NC]

Why are Mid size .380s hard to find in the US?

There are some very nice small 9mms out there (S&W shield, Ruger LC9, Sig 365, SA XDS, Glock 43, etc.) that have more power, are as compact or even more so than many of the 380's, and are cheaper to shoot.

 

[Hasaf]

Yeah, the blowback 380s have a real bite to their recoil.

I was going to make this same point to those recommending the Bersas and the older Berettas, those are blowback pistols. Compared to the new generation locking breech 380 pistols, those have a lot more of a recoil snap than one would expect.

There is a pretty good selection of modern mid-sized 380 pistols that employ a locking breech: Walther PK380 and CCP, the Browning 1911-380, SCCY 380, The S&W M&P EZ, all of these come to mind, I am sure there are more. I think the Glock 42 fits, but some may see it as too small. I am leaving the Colt Mustang derivatives off the list because, while employing a locking breach, they are a bit small.


For the person asking about the size of the 1911-380, here are some comparison pictures: 1911-A1 .45, 1911-380, Colt 380 Government model, Kimber Micro 380.





However, lately, I have been carrying my Glock 42.

 

[Tallball]

FWIW, of all of the ones I've owned and shot, the Colt Government Model has the least recoil. It is steel and fires from a locked breech. The recoil is squat.

My CZ83 had something wrong with the sights that I couldn't be bothered with and traded it to someone who could, but my FiL has one that is very accurate. They are sophisticated and well-made pistols.

 

[Ignition Override]

bannockburn: Without a doubt. East German Makarovs can be the most attractive.

The DA pulls in my pair of EGs had either slightly smoother pulls, or less 'stacking'/ less increase in tension at the end of the pull, compared to my Bulgy and .380 Russkie Mak.

Too bad that H&K couldn't have borrowed some "Commie technology" when they designed the USP DA trigger functions (trigger bars, hammer interface, springs etc). I Gladly 'would have' bought a USP 9mm Compact.

 

[Hasaf]

bannockburn: The East German Makarovs can be the most attractive.

After I got my Makarov (many years ago) I ended up detail striping it and using just a green pad I polished all mating surfaces other than the sear. It made a world of difference.

 

[HiDive]

Here's another vote for the SIG P230SL and similar. I had the one at the bottom of this picture for a long time, but sold it. It is a great pistol.

 

[golden]

For a mid-size, I would go with a GLOCK 42. I carry one off duty and gave one to my wife who has problems handling a heavier gun or working the slide. It is 100 % reliable and shoots as well as a larger gun.

I could also recommend the WALTHER PPK (not the PPK/S which will kick harder due to the squared off grip in the web of the hand area). The PPK is harder to conceal than the GLOCK 42 and may not be as reliable, though my experience with the PPK has been excellent.
The larger PP series is too hard to conceal and kicks harder than the PPK in my opinion.
The SIG 232 is the best of the PP styled .380ACP pistols that I have shot. It has the best grip ergonomics for me in the base, blue alloy frame gun with very good trigger, SIG thumb decocker, great reliability and very good sights.
It is light enough for a pocket carry, but to bulky. I tried it and gave up.
The BERETTA Cheetah series, model 84 (13 shot magazine capacity) and 85 (8 shot magazine) are LARGE .380ACP pistols, as big and heavy as many mid size 9m.m. pistols. The good points are reliability (it may be the most reliable .380ACP pistol), good ergonomics, mild recoil (due to weight and large grip area), good sights, decocking safety on newer models and accurates. They are just as hard to conceal as a GLOCK 19.

Some earlier guns had positive traits for a pocket pistol.
The BROWNING/FN 1910/1955 was a great pocket gun to carry. It was light, very slim and had sights that would never hang up. Down side is the single action trigger and small controls, which disqualifies it as a pocket gun for me. I would have carried it with a full mag and chamber empty in a pocket holster. Also, very SMALL sights. Overall, the best pocket gun available till the WALTHER PPK was introduced.
COLT 1908, it was called the POCKET HAMMERLESS, but you would need a really large pocket for this one and suspenders as well. It was all steel, big as the GLOCK 19 and heavy, with small sights and single action trigger. It was also very reliable, easy to shoot due to the large grip, had mild recoil and was quite slim. It was another gun I would have carried with the chamber empty.
Both of these guns had grip safety's.

COLT reintroduced a .380ACP pistol in 1984. It was completely different from the 1908, except for caliber and size. It was a miniature 1911, with a locked breech, steel frame, single action trigger, 1911 style safety on the left side where the thumb can snap it off and good sights. Then they offered a lightweight version with an alloy frame. Then the smaller Mustang with shorter barrel, slide and grip. The Mustang has been put back into production in both a metal framed and plastic framed versions.
They have the same problems as the 1908 had, namely a 1911 style, single action trigger. This might not be a negative for some, but rules it out for my use.

Jim

 

[Mosin Bubba]

The Bersa Thunder I shot was a great size, but the beavertail bit the crap out of my hand.

 

[Sarge7402]

If you can find one, a Colt DAO Pony in 380 is smaller lighter and easier kicking than some other small pistols.

 

[Dudedog]

Has 9x18 Makarov gotten harder and more expensive to find?

No longer good prices like there used to be, not bad, but not as much selection as .380.
A MAK in .380 would be a good choice.
You can change the barrel from 9X18 to .380 but its not a drop in thing.

MAKs may not be pretty but they work, I think the Russians had a winter vacation home in Siberia for the designers that came up with junk.

 

[horsey300]

surfing the Web for prices of .380 ACP pistols I run across this S&W .380 mid size handgun that is a single action auto with a proper frame mounted manual safety.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/105737/s&w+m&p380+shld+ez+kit+380acp+sfty
Review Here:
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2018/7/23/review-smith-wesson-mp380-shield-ez/

Now most .380 handguns aviable in the US are small frame, short barrel pistols that have more painful recoil and higher muzzle flip due to the lighter weight. Why are Mid size .380s hard to find in the US?

I acknowledge everyone's advice so far, but will throw in that the Walther pk380 has been too overlooked this far, but I put it up with 84fs cheetah and browning baby 1911s. Love my buddy's pk380, CANNOT explain how much lol!

 

[HiDive]

While I like the Walther PPKS it gets a lot of it's desireability from the James Bond reference. My Father brought one back from Germany at the end of WWII. I have taken three people to the range to shoot, that owned a Walther PPKS and each of them came away wanting to trade their pistol for a SIG P230SL like mine. One of the big advantages is the SIG has no safety and esspecially not a slide mounted safety.

 

[HiDive]

I only saw the pistol that my Father had once or twice and it is long gone. He confiscated it from a German "civilian" toward the end of the war.

 

[kmw1954]

This is my Witness Pavona next to a Springfield XD Mod2. The Pavona is basically the same size and shape and capacity as the Beretta 84 only that it is poly instead of metal. It was also about the same price new as a Beretta was used.

I bought this gun with the intention of using it as a training aid as because I cast Boolits for it I can load it for about 4 cents per round. And at that price I can afford to do a lot of shooting.

 

[WheelGunMan]

Can't pry this Browning away from me.

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I can see why...that is one beautiful piece of iron!

 

[MikeInOr]

Can't pry this Browning away from me. Awesome shooter and good to look at. Like others have said, I think most people look for 380 in pocket pistols but I enjoy shooting it in this size pistol as well:

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I also have a Browning 1911-380. EVERYONE that shoots it falls in love with it!... until they see the price.

In my opinion the Browning 1911-380 is one of the most fun to shoot guns that I have come across!

I also own a Bersa 380, which was my first hand gun ~30 years ago. Being a blow back it isn't nearly as nice of a shooter as the Browning 1911-380 is.

 

[Hasaf]

I also have a Browning 1911-380. EVERYONE that shoots it falls in love with it!... until they see the price.

In my opinion the Browning 1911-380 is one of the most fun to shoot guns that I have come across!

I also own a Bersa 380, which was my first hand gun ~30 years ago. Being a blow back it isn't nearly as nice of a shooter as the Browning 1911-380 is.

It is frequently discounted. It is just a matter of being patient. I think mine was about 70% of list.

 

[FFGColorado]

There are some very nice small 9mms out there (S&W shield, Ruger LC9, Sig 365, SA XDS, Glock 43, etc.) that have more power, are as compact or even more so than many of the 380's, and are cheaper to shoot.

But for some(me) NO fun to shoot. If I'm going to have a gun, I intend to shoot it a lot. Shooting means you make sure it's reliable and also you get better with it BUT if it's NFTS(No Fun To Shoot)..taking it out, shooting one magazine to make sure it works and putting it away..not for me, thanks.

Owned a Ruger LC9S, Glock 43, shot a sig 365..no thanks..With the right ammunition, .380 is VERY effective..plus in a package that is reliable, easy to conceal and....FTS........Glock 42..

 

[mokin]

Thanks for the pictures everybody. Y'all are really making me want to get a .380. The biggest deterrent to getting one has been the diminutive size.

 

[1KPerDay]

I did read a few reviews of the Bersa Thunder .380 about over 10 years ago.

I thought about buying one due to low price but ended up with a S&W Model 10...

I think the single mag it came with and higher priced mags threw me off buying one.

Yeah if it came with 2 mags it would be hugely more popular IMO. Single mags available for purchase are unobtanium. Here's my quick review for any interested. Fun pistol.

 

[AK103K]

But for some(me) NO fun to shoot. If I'm going to have a gun, I intend to shoot it a lot. Shooting means you make sure it's reliable and also you get better with it BUT if it's NFTS(No Fun To Shoot)..taking it out, shooting one magazine to make sure it works and putting it away..not for me, thanks.

Owned a Ruger LC9S, Glock 43, shot a sig 365..no thanks..With the right ammunition, .380 is VERY effective..plus in a package that is reliable, easy to conceal and....FTS........Glock 42..

Just curious, but you think the blowback 380's are easier on you than the 9mm's?

Ive always found the locked breach 9mm's, even in the smaller, 380/32 size guns, to be a lot more pleasant to shoot, and easier on the hand, than the blowback 380's in guns of the same size, and even bigger.

Ive owned 42's and 43's, and both of those were basically pussycats to shoot compared to other 380's Ive owned, but both are lock breach guns.

Same goes for the SIG P238. It was much softer shooting than my P230's. And I always thought the P230's were about the nicest blowback 380's to shoot, due to the way their grips were designed and helped absorb the recoil impulse.

My "NFTS" guns are the Airweight J frame Smiths. Still, you have to shoot them regularly if you want to stay on top of them and be decent with them. That just is what it is.

Same goes for those little 380's if youre planning on counting on one.

 

[golden]

If you want a mid size .380ACP pistol, you have a number of good choices. I own or have shot quite a few of them.

For minimum recoil, ease of shooting, accuracy and reliability, two stand out, the BERETTA 84/85 and the SIG 232. For a concealed carry gun, I would go with the SIG 232 in the base alloy framed model. It was light, had a good trigger, the excellent SIG de-cocker, very good sights (mine came with night sites) and one of the most ergonomic grips that I have come across, at least for me. It was also very reliable. It was slightly shorter than the WALTHER PP, but similar in size. The downside is that it has been discontinued.

The BERETTA 84 and 85 are the same gun from the slide up. Same sights, same trigger, same safety and open top slide. The difference is that the 84 has a 13 shot double column magazine and the 85, a single column magazine. The grips are similar, unless you get thin ones for the 85. They are extremely reliable and very easy to shoot, but large for a .380ACP. Several police departments including I believe the INDIANA State Police adopted them as back up guns.
New models of the BERETTA 84/85 have a manual safety on the frame in the same position as the 1911. If you flick it up, it is on safe, if you flick it up higher, it will safely drop the hammer for a hammer down, double action, first shot.

The BERETTA'S reliable enough to be used as a home defense or car gun, if you are recoil sensitive.

The CZ-83 was also available in .380ACP and was similar in size to the BERETTA, but heavier, as it was all steel. It is an excellent gun with all the good features of the BERETTA, except that it does not have a hammer dropping safety. To lower the hammer, you have to pull the trigger while gently lowering the hammer (early models of the BERETTA 84/85, also had this safety system).

I also had a COLT .380ACP Government model and it was a good shooter, but I do not like "COCKED & LOCKED", so I got rid of it. The recoil was no problem and it shot well.

I have not tried the .380ACP S&W EZ model, so I cannot comment on it. I would like to have my wife shoot it as a companion to her GLOCK 42 carry gun.

Jim