(Mike's KB) Any Lessons Realized?

[Edward429451]

Familierity breeds contempt and complacency. Having done something for a long time without a problem sometimes makes us feel as if we can do more than we can (cause we've been doing it so long we're 'experts' at it!)


Mike's blown case thread really made me rethink my own 'expertness' I've expertly been shooting lead in my Glock for years with no probs. Well there's no such thing as an expert so I'm through shootin lead in Glocks. I feel like it could be a time bomb.

Nobody wants to KB a gun. I wondered if any of you who reload had changed any reloading habits or 'tightened protocol' so to speak, because of Mike's thread / experiance? And in what way?

I did. Luckily I can swage jacketed .451's

 

[WhoKnowsWho]

It only confirmed my belief that we are only human... well, except for Skunkabilly, and he doesn't reload yet, he needs to start making some carbon fiber ammo.

I so far have always leaned on the side of caution, this isn't child's play. And to top it off, I shot my first .40 S&W reloads today and didn't kB!

 

[sm]

Familierity breeds contempt and complacency.

Wise words for life and everything we do - not only reloading.

Currently taking a break from reloading shotshells, personally , and thankfully never had one of my loads KB.

I have witnessed KB's in a Shotgun. I have seen what "pressures akin to a grenade" will do. One witnessed event - I found the guys thumb...

I slowed down, focused more, averaged weights more often, made sure everything marked and notes kept...grateful and humbled I was.

 

[Sheldon]

I called mine a "reminder" to not get into too much of a rhythm that you stop seeing what's happening on the press. I just happened to run into a couple good deals on some Dillon 650 presses which auto index and that helps in the double charge area anyway.......you can still make a squib load (no powder) if you short stroke the handle still. I like the powder checker option as well as it will detect the bigger variations in powder level in the cases.

 

[stans]

This is why I like to sit a little above my press. Yes, it is more difficult and uncomfortable to operate the press, but I can see if the primer pickup bar is operating properly, if the powder is dropping into the case and if the powder level inside the case looks correct. Yes, I have double charged a few cases and, so far, all were caught before the bullet was seated. I also don't try to see how fast I can reload. Slow and steady is my technique.

 

[redneck2]

Coupla things...

obviously we'd all like to be as careful as possible. Few want to intentionally damage a firearm or themselves.

That said, there's several things to consider. The vast majority of KB's in hanguns cause anywhere from minor to total damage of the firearm, but usually cause minor or no damage to the shooter. I suspect this is due to the lower pressures handguns typically operate at.

Rifles that operate at 60,000# and shotguns are a different story.

If you've loaded 80,000 rounds, that's 1,600 boxes. If you save $10 a box (extremely conservative) it more than pays for the damage to the gun.

If no one every made a boo-boo, companies wouldn't sell bullet pullers.

We drive cars every day, and there are dozens of body shops in town that fix our screw-ups with cars that cost 20 times what our gun cost. If you want to make sure you don't damage your expensive car, don't drive.

Same thing with a gun. If you want to be 100% sure there's never a problem, leave it in the safe. I'm exceptionally careful with my guns, but I'll risk wear or other problems for the chance to use them.

I appreciate Mike sharing as a reminder to us all

 

[mtnbkr]

I learned not to shoot Mike's reloads

Seriously though, I've already developed habits that will hopefully keep this from happening (nothing's 100% foolproof though).

1) for hot loads, I use slow powders that will overflow if I even get more than a couple grains over my standard. No room for double charging at all.

2) for light loads, I leave enough leeway that a double charge will be borderline safe in my gun. I wouldn't want to shoot them as a habit, but I'm not likely to damage the gun either.

3) I made a habit of looking inside my cases as I load and dumping any that even remotely look suspicious.

4) If something causes me to stop the process after charging a case, but before seating the bullet, I will dump the powder and recharge.

None of this will prevent a double charge, but it makes one much less likely.

Chris

 

[JNewell]

To add to MtnBkr's list, I don't get out the progressive unless I really need volume, and I don't really crank it up until I've really gotten back into the swing of the machine.

If i'm charging cases manually (single stage press), I look into each and every case to make sure there's no double charge or failure to charge.

Not sure the car analogy is right. It's more like brakes: have somone who (you hope) knows what they're doing, or save some money and do it yourself? Brake work is typically very straightforward, but if you get it wrong, the consequences could be severe. Still, no one's born an expert...there's always a first time.

 

[BigG]

Note to Self: Don't shoot any of Mike's reloads!!!

 

[Dave R]

Always look down every case and verify the powder level with the mark 1 eyeball, before seating bullets.

Hard to do on a progressive, though...

Also hard on my .17, but a bright flashlight makes it do-able.

 

[Highland Ranger]

Bought a bunch of books on reloading and was interested in exploring . . . . . but my understanding is ultimately no real cost savings and you can blow up a gun?

Has significantly cooled me to the idea to the point that I have shelved it for now. I'll use the money to buy another gun . . . .

 

[Mike Irwin]

Ranger,

Note that I've been reloading my own ammunition for 25 years, and figure in that time I have loaded between 85,000 and 100,000 rounds, with this being the FIRST problem of this sort that I've ever had.

You can, quite frankly, blow up your gun in any number of ways, including with factory ammunition.

The ultimate "no cost savings" normally goes hand in hand with "you can afford to shoot a LOT more," depending on the ammo, perhaps anywhere from 2 to 10 times as much shooting for the same amount of money.

That's pretty damned significant.

 

[4570Rick]

Found this at Glock FAQ
Long article so just a couple paragraphs and the URL

Can I shoot lead bullets in my Glock?
This has been debated on rec.guns and GlockTalk about 10,000 times. There are basically 2 schools of thought:

School #1: Don't Do It
Glock barrels use special polygonal rifling not found in most handguns. This rifling is one of the main reasons Glocks are extremely accurate guns. However, the same rifling can cause a high degree of leading when not using jacketed bullets. In other words some lead from the bullet sticks to the inside of the barrel when it is fired. Too much leading can quickly lead to high pressures which can cause the barrel and/or gun to break or even explode. Most people who weigh in on this subject fall into this category including Glock Inc.

School #2: Don't Worry About It
If you clean your barrel well and do it every time you shoot there will be no significant leading. Many, many people use lead bullets almost exclusively in their Glocks and do not have any problems whatsoever.

Find the rest at... http://www.glockfaq.com/reloading.htm

 

[WhoKnowsWho]

Bought a bunch of books on reloading and was interested in exploring . . . . . but my understanding is ultimately no real cost savings and you can blow up a gun?

My wifes .41 Magnum Desert Eagle would cost about $22 a box of 50 to shoot. With reloading, with new brass, it was like $13 for 50. Then cheaper since we could re-use the brass at least a couple of times after that.

Sounds like cost savings to me!

Blowing up the gun? Well, I worked the loads up from the starting loads, until the gun functioned fine and accuracy was good for my ability. I follow the books and check what I am doing. If you don't check what you are doing, you could blow up a gun with factory loads. Case in point, I had a box of Wolf labeled 9x18 Makarov that were really .380 ACP in the box. Could have been messy to not pay attention.

 

[redneck2]

Highland Ranger..

refer back to my post above

Do the math...savings amount to maybe $20,000. Even if you do $500 damage you're still way ahead. Chances of getting hurt are quite remote.

Being very careful, taking your time, and using the right powder (as explained above) chances are almost non-existant. Fast powders let you load cheaper but you can double charge. Impossible with slow powders.

 

[Edward429451]

The savings in reloading is very significant if you do the math correctly. Sure there's a larger outlay of cash to buy componants, but don't stop there...Where you may lay out 100 dollars for say 200 rnds of factory ammo, take the same 100 dollars and buy componants and suddenly you have 1500 rnds or more. That's seriously significant.

As for possibly KB'ing a gun...No hard notes or tallysheets done, but it seems to me that I hear about guns KB'ing with factory ammo every bit as much if not more than with reloads.

I'm not backing off of reloading the least little bit. I'm getting more serious about it. Leaning towards quality rather than quantity. Mike's experiance drove it home for me that Mr. Murphy is alive and well and should be respected and stopped before he gets through the door. I asked myself what can I do to keep Murphy out of my life?

45ACP runs at around 1/2 the pressure of 9's & 40's. I've been loading 5.8g of 231 behind the 1000's of lead bullets (225gFP) that's been through my G21. That's a max load and I've even pushed it to 6.0 before with no probs. Good cleaning techniques has kept Murphy at bay. But for how long? How much leeway do I have for a mistake? When will a bad combination catch up with me? A slight bump of the measure that I didn't catch & check, a little lead buildup from a soft batch of slugs, an older brass case that should've been pitched but made it through QC, and the damnable unsupported chamber, any combination of these could add up to...Hello Mr. Murphy. That's why I decided to cool it with the lead in the Glock.

I haven't altered my loading techniques, but wanted to take steps in some way to become safer overall and that was what I came up with.

 

[Highland Ranger]

Didn't mean to get everyone excited . . . .

I've just heard that discounting the time and equipment, reloading isn't primarily done for economy.

Just bought 500 rounds of Winclean 45 for $13/box; you can get 45 ammo factory fresh for $9 box (generic Speer hardball) - so unless you shoot 454 or 500 mag, there are bargains out there in the common calibers (45, 9, 40, 357 etc.)

Now I have been saving 44 brass . . . those 300gr rounds can get expensive.

Who knows . . . . maybe it's just that I get bummed seeing two of my beloved USP's in pieces!

Mike - re, reloading for years; that's exactly my point - if this could happen to you it could happen to anyone.

Do we have any documented cases of overcharged factory ammo? I'd like to think that their Q/C is that they weight every round but something is telling me they don't . . . .

 

[wingman]

Today I was reading another gun board and the discussion was on "accidental
discharge" One poster seem upset that someone said it will happen to most
of us, he thought he was too safety conscious for an AD to happen with him.

The more you do something, driving , flying, shooting, reloading or use any
tool the "odds" are very good in time an accident will occur, now we all must
work for it not to happen but the odds are not with us with increase use..

Having said that I have reloaded over 35 years with no kabooms, one dud
due to a bad primer(I think), I've had 3 AD's and I always maintain it will
never happen again, I've had 2 minor auto accidents and I am "very" safety
conscious in all things I do. So can i say it will never happen, nope, but i
will try.

 

[caz223]

Reloading is kinda like driving.
You are more likely to have an incident when you first start, and you need somebody that knows how to drive/reload to show you how to do it.

If you're an unsafe driver you will most likely cause/be involved in an accident.

Even if you're a safe driver, accidents can happen to anybody.
That's why you gotta drive defensively.
Looking out for the other guy.
In the case of reloading, you gotta look out for yourself.

In the words of a former supervisor at every pre-shift "Pay attention to what you're doing out there, don't get hurt".
After hearing that little speech at the very end of every days pre-shift, after a few years, it pops into your head when you know you're doing something that isn't safe, and it makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up.