Mil spec

[taliv]

Again I disagree. How would a SR15 stack up on Rob_S "chart" vs a Colt? Who would have more boxes checked? Who would be perceived "better" by the uninformed based of the criteria of the "chart"? Now, which is truly better in real life/use?

that really is unnecessarily trollish. it's not as if it's a revelation here that you can make something better than milspec. heck, the first answer in the poll in the opening post implies almost everyone here expects better or doesn't care

 

[meanmrmustard]

Kinda wish this particular thread had been more of "why material A is better than B", rather than a brand bashing. There's just too much subjectivity here.

I have "milspec" parts in guns that aren't. I don't buy supposed mil spec guns because they're generally more or less better, but only because I prefer a choice in features in not afforded with certain "milspec" guns.

Doesn't make it better, just different. If I don't need a 4 moa, 15,000 round gun, why buy it.
If I need a beat-em-up gun with no match capabilities, why buy a varminter or SPR?

 

[kimbershot]

mil spec=drilled and milled and all parts fit and function. all pieces go through stress test and all have life cycle.

 

[hatt]

Kinda wish this particular thread had been more of "why material A is better than B", rather than a brand bashing. There's just too much subjectivity here.

I have "milspec" parts in guns that aren't. I don't buy supposed mil spec guns because they're generally more or less better, but only because I prefer a choice in features in not afforded with certain "milspec" guns.

Doesn't make it better, just different. If I don't need a 4 moa, 15,000 round gun, why buy it.

I don't see anyone advocating for a strict mil-spec across the board gun. Pretty much everyone said they'd start there and work themselves up to other things based on wants and needs. Just like you are doing in practice.

 

[meanmrmustard]

I don't see anyone advocating for a strict mil-spec across the board gun. Pretty much everyone said they'd start there and work themselves up to other things based on wants and needs. Just like you are doing in practice.

I never said anyone was.

...and your statement is flawed. Over half of those polled don't care.

But, I see your point.

 

[Warp]

I never said anyone was.

...and your statement is flawed. Over half of those polled don't care.

But, I see your point.

Your statement is flawed.

Currently 61.05% care.

Only 37.66%...considerably less than half...say that it doesn't matter.

 

[meanmrmustard]

Your statement is flawed.

Currently 61.05% care.

Only 37.66%...considerably less than half...say that it doesn't matter.

Methinks you're counting a near 12% where it shouldn't be, sir.

If liking and actually buying milspec guns were synonymous, you'd be right.

If 12% opted against buying milspec in lieu of cost, but liked it, I'd say that's a "don't care" answer. Maybe someone who voted that way could/should interpret.

 

[jim243]

I pretty much view "mil-spec" as the bottom of the barrel (min bid) on a product whether it is a rifle or a MRE. The government is not known to purchase the best products out there.

I have more respect for those that are made from scratch by private citizens building their own AR's from better parts. The advantage of a "mil-spec" is that a lot more testing is done on them than one made with commercial parts. But it is not an indication of better quality. The general purchasing market shakes out commercial products that meet or exceed "mil-spec" requirements, those that exceed this standard, stand the test of time, those that fail to stand the test of time, fall by the wayside.

I have yet to see someone ask for a "mil-spec" car or truck for their main transportation. Will it perform it's main function, yes. But while I love my SKS for looks, I am not taking it out to a competition that requires accuracy to sub-MOA. (and yes it was "mil-spec")

I don't expect my AR to see the same action that a military rifle would, but I do expect it to last longer than one used for combat.

Your choice.
Jim

 

[hatt]

I don't know what's so difficult about this subject. I believe most of the issue is buyers of cheap shortcut guns wants everyone to agree their guns are just as good as a higher quality "mil-spec" gun and buyers of high end guns wants everyone to accept their guns are vastly superior to your quality "mil-spec" gun.

 

[meanmrmustard]

My main thing is accuracy. While your box stock milspec gun without match ammo is only asked of a 4 moa print. Hell, the ammo is held to higher standards (in the case of Mk 262). It'll run forever, but really is only ever a battle rifle.
If that's what I need, that's what I'll buy. Its not got as much to do with wanting to buy cheap junk, as it does with what can be afforded, or if I need a milspec, minute-of-pie plate rifle.

Its more about necessity. I think the milspec advocates try to push the issue as though ARs are only fighting guns. I do not concur.

 

[hatt]

No one has ever advocated not buying a precision barrel if you want a precision gun. I've never seen that one time on any forum. That's just silly.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I always read "mil spec" as meaning meeting minimum and maximum tolerances and materials for interchange with parts from other "mil spec" manufacturers. The old Eli Whitney interchangeable parts mass manufacture thingy.

And that "lowest bidder" who promised to match "mil spec" but didn't was another problem entirely. (Like the whole run of one manufacturer's Type L Thompson drum magazines (50 shot) that were laid out on a runway and ran over with a steamroller after some failed quality checks.)

 

[meanmrmustard]

No one has ever advocated not buying a precision barrel if you want a precision gun. I've never seen that one time on any forum. That's just silly.

But I've seen the milspec vs. the world argument time and time again. Its not silly, just annoying.

 

[hatt]

You have an example where people were touting chrome bores as the last word in accuracy? I've never seen one.

 

[meanmrmustard]

You have an example where people were touting chrome bores as the last word in accuracy? I've never seen one.

Then you've not used the search function on this very site. Some of your peers, myself included, have shot non lined, Melonite, chrome lined, and stainless to observe larger groups from a chrome lined bore. Uneveness in the lining is what I chaulk it up to. But, they were never lined for accuracy, but for longevity. That's why I prefer Melonite to chrome: its not a coating, but a treatment that goes beyond steel surface, and is as wear resistant as chrome WITHOUT accuracy degradation. As tested by S&W with the Sport barrel (1/8 twist, 5r rifling by Thompson Center).

Nature of the beast. I could make a milspec rifle more accurate, or get over it.

 

[hatt]

Did you even read what I wrote?

 

[meanmrmustard]

Did you even read what I wrote?

Apparently not! Very sorry, I misunderstood.

Apologies, sir.

 

[Warp]

Did you even read what I wrote?

I wondered that as well.

For multiple posts

 

[meanmrmustard]

I wondered that as well.

For multiple posts

I don't get it.

What other post has been misunderstood. I'd like the post numbers please.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I pretty much view "mil-spec" as the bottom of the barrel (min bid) on a product whether it is a rifle or a MRE. The government is not known to purchase the best products out there.

Well, you can certainly view milspec as this all you wish, but that doesn't make your view correct.

Milspec doesn't have a thing to do with "bottom of the barrel (min bid) on a product" at all.

Minimum bid is a financial aspect with respect to selecting a potential contractor to perform some service. Milspec is the criteria or design specifications required for the construction of the product the military wants.

If you want a concrete sidewalk to be built that's X feet long, Y feet wide, and Z inches thick, from Type D concrete, THAT is the specification you require for the job.

If there are three contractors out there who could form and pour your sidewalk for you and you select the one with the lowest bid, then THAT is the "min bid" on the job. That contractor must STILL build your sidewalk to your specifications.

 

[Welding Rod]

Sorry to step into the bickering , just a side note about chrome bores... they can be very accurate. I had a chrome lined RRA rifle that was a sub MOA shooter. I think some Noveske shooters have had some really good accuracy results too.