military bolt guns
- Thread starter ilbob
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chicharrones
needs more ammo
I've owned a Swedish M96 and still own a Swiss K31. I still want a Spanish FR8.
So, I throw those into the discussion.
So, I throw those into the discussion.
M1903A3 I like better than the M1903 because of the rear sight. Enfield Rifle No.4 Mk2 or the Mk1. I don't have a Swiss K31, but only see good news about it. A straight pull on the bolt.
None of these are getting cheaper.
German K98 Mauser is well liked, but Axis. The Russian Mosin Nagant is less expensive and there are reasons for that.
None of these are getting cheaper.
German K98 Mauser is well liked, but Axis. The Russian Mosin Nagant is less expensive and there are reasons for that.
Deaf Smith
Member
I've got a Remington 1917 '06... And I ain't selling it.
Did you guys know they made a 18 inch barrel version for trench warfare. It was experimental. Add a 10 shot mag and it would have been quite a good piece.
Deaf
Did you guys know they made a 18 inch barrel version for trench warfare. It was experimental. Add a 10 shot mag and it would have been quite a good piece.
Deaf
Panzerschwein
member
Mosins.
Because in mother Russia, military gun bolt you!!
Because in mother Russia, military gun bolt you!!
zaitcev
Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2016
- Messages
- 1,256
Under 20... Well, how about:
Austrian M95
SMLE
Eddystone
Bertier
Berdan II
Dreise (if you can afford one)
Mosin (French or American preferably)
A genuine Bannerman Mosin-Nagant
K98
Arisaka 6.5
Murata
Thai Mauser Type 46
Commission
Swedish Mauser
K-31
Carcano
SSG 82
Krag-Jorgensen
Madsen M47
One slot reserved for a personal interest, like a Springfield
Austrian M95
SMLE
Eddystone
Bertier
Berdan II
Dreise (if you can afford one)
Mosin (French or American preferably)
A genuine Bannerman Mosin-Nagant
K98
Arisaka 6.5
Murata
Thai Mauser Type 46
Commission
Swedish Mauser
K-31
Carcano
SSG 82
Krag-Jorgensen
Madsen M47
One slot reserved for a personal interest, like a Springfield
Warning, long post--so get out while you can.
First,How much do you want to spend and how much do you want to reload are two questions. Unless you are collecting pristine rifles and don't plan to shoot them, the cost of feeding some of these is pretty high, let alone the periodic ammo and brass disappearance. If you are collecting, expect that scarcity and condition will determine all and being able to fire them is not an issue. Shooting them requires both affordable ammo either factory or reloading and a safe firearm but battered stocks, worn finish, usually not an issue.
From collecting to shoot these rifles, these are some of the opinions that I have formed on the various rifles--and yes, I have owned all of the above in the past and keep up with the prices on auction sites and gunstores.
For shooter quality firearms, there is a correlation between price of the firearm and ammo availability. First, the best buy for military bolt actions are the sporterized ones. A good shooter quality 1903 or 1903a3 (not low numbered) runs about $700 and up depending on condition and scarcity in military configuration, half that for a D&T, cut barrel, etc. average 03 average bambie killer sporter. A shooter quality arisaka runs about $300-400 now, but a sporter about half. Obviously, expensive stocks, premium level work on finish, collector grade conversions by famous gunsmiths get closer or can exceed the average military price.
U.S. rifles in .30-06 hold their value and there is ample cheap ammo to fire them. Best values are the 1917 rifle and the 1903a3s, high numbered 1903's and variants such as the Mark I sell for a premium. Occasionally, you will see someone sell it that does not know what it is worth and are clearing out grampa's closet. Depending on whether you have scruples, you can get a buy that way. Krags are around, especially sporter versions, but brass and ammo have dried up. Watch out for condition on these. Sporter versions are cheap but un monkeyed with long and carbine versions rate collector prices.
Mosin Nagants, going up, but still affordable to care and feed. For between $200-300, the std. Russian mosin is a great milsurp buy. Finns represent the best of the lot but are high and often well worn on the exterior. These start about $350 and up depending on condition and scarcity. Watch out for old Finnish barrels that use a tighter ammo specification--they are more accurate but you can have pressure issues firing std. 7.62x54 ammo.
Mausers, depends on the caliber, but 6.5x55, 8mm, and 7mm variants do have ammo availability, even if a bit pricier than .30-06 or 7.62x54r. Thank the Euros for this. Good value on a m98 Mauser bolt actions for a shooter in military configuration--there are still some Spanish M43 Mausers and Yugo Communist Mausers M24/47 or m48 for under $500 in good to excellent condition. Figure nearly doubling that for German WWII Mausers. You will also find South American m98 Mausers floating around--Brazilian, Argentinian, and Colombian, are commonly available in .30-06 conversions and less common in the original 7mm or 7.62 argy. Pay careful attention as some have pitting issues, receiver issues, etc. A lot of these have been converted to sporters of varying quality. Even the mismatched Russian/Yugo captures are now high. You can, however, find sporter versions for less, especially in Euro conversion calibers including some that are quite well done.
Small ring Mausers, the Swedes are lovely--the m96, m38, and the rare 94 carbine fire an accurate, well mannered round. The only problem is that those in original configuration are bringing high prices--figure $500 and up--carbines in original configuration probably should just be collected rather than shot due to the stocks and hardware alone bringing about $500. Chileans are well made and not that high yet but avoid the small ring .308 conversions unless you know exactly the risks involved. Usually about a hundred or two less than Swedes. The hit or miss, most common small rings are the Spanish--usually in poor condition now in 7mm or the .308 conversions. There has been on this site and others, countless charges and countercharges, about the safety of the .308/7.62/7.62 CETME Spanish Mauser conversions. If you want to buy one, they are around but be sure to educate yourself about the issue then make an informed choice. You can get the conversions in apparent good shape from about $200 and up, the original 7mms still floating around can bring a bit more but often have barrels and receivers in poor condition. Long rifles are scarce. Argentinian 1891 Mausers are also around.
British Lee-Enfields. Rugged, widely available, intermediate issue of ammo availability and brass for reloading, better than it was about ten years ago. A lot of interesting variants--excels using lead bullets and has some of the best sights available. Also has high cap mags for a bolt action (ten rounds) For sustained firing, find one from WWII which are the No. 4, Mk.. 1, the postwar No. 4, Mk.2. The older WWI and pre-WWII vintage (excluding Aussie Lithgow versions which can be from WWII), known as the SMLE, the No. 1 Mk. 3, No. 1, Mk.3 and other variants can be accurate but often are well used. The P14 aka Enfield aka No. 3, Mk. 1 was a brit designed, american manufactured, WWI rifle in .303.Might see one or two of these around-excellent rifle but like the Lee-Enfield, cocks on closing which bothers some people. There are some .308/7.62 versions floating around--particularly from India's Ishapore arsenal. Opinions vary on these but a proper conversion will have proof stamps on the receiver indicating the rifle's suitability for 7.62. If you want them, they are around, usually for $500 or less with sporters common for half that or less. Beware of strange conversions in these without seeking a gunsmith's opinion on safety. Lee-Enfields were so common that people did all kinds of conversions but the actions are less suitable for modern high pressure cartridges than Mauser 98's, 1903a3's etc.
Carcanos, you can find the carbine versions pretty cheap, but they are expensive to feed, and if the carbine conversion was done by the Italians or by Bubba from the long rifle, figure your patterns will resemble birdshoot (the m91 long rifles used gain twist rifling). Second, it requires a .268 bullet which was and is used by few other rifles in history. Unless you get the Hornady military round, size your own lead bullets and reload, or have fun with ancient Italian military issue ammo with issues such as hangfires, dud rounds, etc, then .264 caliber bullets are what you will find with so so accuracy.
French rifles, ammo is relatively scarce but bullets are a bit more available. The MAS 36 and the 36/51 are superb but quirky rifles using a cartridge that resembles a light 7.62 Nato round. Be aware that this rifle has no safety unless a Century trigger blocking retrofit. The Lebel and Berthiers are quirky but not as good and generally use the 8 mm Lebel which is hard to find. These are affordable and cost about $500 and up in good shooting condition. You will find some Century .308 conversions of the MAS 36 which are hit and miss in quality of the conversion.
Swiss, probably some of the finest workmanship, K1911's and K31's represent some of the finest around. These are usually found in excellent condition as far as mechanically but may be well worn on the exterior finish /stock The ammo GP11 anticipates the U.S. Army's adoption of 7.62 Nato by forty years. That being said, the surplus ammo is drying up and new ammo is the future of this caliber. Fortunately, for handloaders, it uses a std. .308 caliber bullet.
Arisakas represent one of the other great lines of milsurps. New Ammo is hit or miss but is available from several sources--a lot of sporterized versions seem to be floating around recently and you can find recent threads on the THR about these. You can find these less than $500 and often less than $400 in original configuration. Collectors seek ones that do not have the receiver scubbed of its chrysanthemum (the Emperor's symbol) post war. Shooters can pick up an identical rifle for significantly less if the mum is not present. Early T99's which use a round similar to the .303 (different brass design but similar pressures, bullet size, etc.) have chromed bores and often are quite good. Arisakas use Metford rifling with shallow grooves which can looks well worn but often shoots quite nicely.
There are others such as the Austrian M95 and associated carbines, Springfield Trapdoors, older Mausers such as the 1871 and 71/84 and the commission rifles of 1888, the hybrid Siamese Mauser (cross an Arisaka and a Mauser), and Mannlichers, Vetterlis, etc. that are really for collecting specialists and often do not have affordable/available ammo or may represent challenges such as firing safety, broken parts availability, etc.
Hope this helps you. BTW, the Prvi Partisan has helped bring back affordable ammo for many of these rifles but not all places stock every caliber that Prvi makes. Grafs and Sons is one place that stocks most of what Prvi makes and another good place is AIM surplus. Midway and Brownells stock some. Grafs and Midway are also good sources for reloading bullets and brass for these rifles. Norma makes some of the brass and ammo but is much higher. Other manufacturers make main line rounds such as .30-06, .308/7.62 Nato, .303 on occasion, 6.5, 7, and 8mm Mauser.
First,How much do you want to spend and how much do you want to reload are two questions. Unless you are collecting pristine rifles and don't plan to shoot them, the cost of feeding some of these is pretty high, let alone the periodic ammo and brass disappearance. If you are collecting, expect that scarcity and condition will determine all and being able to fire them is not an issue. Shooting them requires both affordable ammo either factory or reloading and a safe firearm but battered stocks, worn finish, usually not an issue.
From collecting to shoot these rifles, these are some of the opinions that I have formed on the various rifles--and yes, I have owned all of the above in the past and keep up with the prices on auction sites and gunstores.
For shooter quality firearms, there is a correlation between price of the firearm and ammo availability. First, the best buy for military bolt actions are the sporterized ones. A good shooter quality 1903 or 1903a3 (not low numbered) runs about $700 and up depending on condition and scarcity in military configuration, half that for a D&T, cut barrel, etc. average 03 average bambie killer sporter. A shooter quality arisaka runs about $300-400 now, but a sporter about half. Obviously, expensive stocks, premium level work on finish, collector grade conversions by famous gunsmiths get closer or can exceed the average military price.
U.S. rifles in .30-06 hold their value and there is ample cheap ammo to fire them. Best values are the 1917 rifle and the 1903a3s, high numbered 1903's and variants such as the Mark I sell for a premium. Occasionally, you will see someone sell it that does not know what it is worth and are clearing out grampa's closet. Depending on whether you have scruples, you can get a buy that way. Krags are around, especially sporter versions, but brass and ammo have dried up. Watch out for condition on these. Sporter versions are cheap but un monkeyed with long and carbine versions rate collector prices.
Mosin Nagants, going up, but still affordable to care and feed. For between $200-300, the std. Russian mosin is a great milsurp buy. Finns represent the best of the lot but are high and often well worn on the exterior. These start about $350 and up depending on condition and scarcity. Watch out for old Finnish barrels that use a tighter ammo specification--they are more accurate but you can have pressure issues firing std. 7.62x54 ammo.
Mausers, depends on the caliber, but 6.5x55, 8mm, and 7mm variants do have ammo availability, even if a bit pricier than .30-06 or 7.62x54r. Thank the Euros for this. Good value on a m98 Mauser bolt actions for a shooter in military configuration--there are still some Spanish M43 Mausers and Yugo Communist Mausers M24/47 or m48 for under $500 in good to excellent condition. Figure nearly doubling that for German WWII Mausers. You will also find South American m98 Mausers floating around--Brazilian, Argentinian, and Colombian, are commonly available in .30-06 conversions and less common in the original 7mm or 7.62 argy. Pay careful attention as some have pitting issues, receiver issues, etc. A lot of these have been converted to sporters of varying quality. Even the mismatched Russian/Yugo captures are now high. You can, however, find sporter versions for less, especially in Euro conversion calibers including some that are quite well done.
Small ring Mausers, the Swedes are lovely--the m96, m38, and the rare 94 carbine fire an accurate, well mannered round. The only problem is that those in original configuration are bringing high prices--figure $500 and up--carbines in original configuration probably should just be collected rather than shot due to the stocks and hardware alone bringing about $500. Chileans are well made and not that high yet but avoid the small ring .308 conversions unless you know exactly the risks involved. Usually about a hundred or two less than Swedes. The hit or miss, most common small rings are the Spanish--usually in poor condition now in 7mm or the .308 conversions. There has been on this site and others, countless charges and countercharges, about the safety of the .308/7.62/7.62 CETME Spanish Mauser conversions. If you want to buy one, they are around but be sure to educate yourself about the issue then make an informed choice. You can get the conversions in apparent good shape from about $200 and up, the original 7mms still floating around can bring a bit more but often have barrels and receivers in poor condition. Long rifles are scarce. Argentinian 1891 Mausers are also around.
British Lee-Enfields. Rugged, widely available, intermediate issue of ammo availability and brass for reloading, better than it was about ten years ago. A lot of interesting variants--excels using lead bullets and has some of the best sights available. Also has high cap mags for a bolt action (ten rounds) For sustained firing, find one from WWII which are the No. 4, Mk.. 1, the postwar No. 4, Mk.2. The older WWI and pre-WWII vintage (excluding Aussie Lithgow versions which can be from WWII), known as the SMLE, the No. 1 Mk. 3, No. 1, Mk.3 and other variants can be accurate but often are well used. The P14 aka Enfield aka No. 3, Mk. 1 was a brit designed, american manufactured, WWI rifle in .303.Might see one or two of these around-excellent rifle but like the Lee-Enfield, cocks on closing which bothers some people. There are some .308/7.62 versions floating around--particularly from India's Ishapore arsenal. Opinions vary on these but a proper conversion will have proof stamps on the receiver indicating the rifle's suitability for 7.62. If you want them, they are around, usually for $500 or less with sporters common for half that or less. Beware of strange conversions in these without seeking a gunsmith's opinion on safety. Lee-Enfields were so common that people did all kinds of conversions but the actions are less suitable for modern high pressure cartridges than Mauser 98's, 1903a3's etc.
Carcanos, you can find the carbine versions pretty cheap, but they are expensive to feed, and if the carbine conversion was done by the Italians or by Bubba from the long rifle, figure your patterns will resemble birdshoot (the m91 long rifles used gain twist rifling). Second, it requires a .268 bullet which was and is used by few other rifles in history. Unless you get the Hornady military round, size your own lead bullets and reload, or have fun with ancient Italian military issue ammo with issues such as hangfires, dud rounds, etc, then .264 caliber bullets are what you will find with so so accuracy.
French rifles, ammo is relatively scarce but bullets are a bit more available. The MAS 36 and the 36/51 are superb but quirky rifles using a cartridge that resembles a light 7.62 Nato round. Be aware that this rifle has no safety unless a Century trigger blocking retrofit. The Lebel and Berthiers are quirky but not as good and generally use the 8 mm Lebel which is hard to find. These are affordable and cost about $500 and up in good shooting condition. You will find some Century .308 conversions of the MAS 36 which are hit and miss in quality of the conversion.
Swiss, probably some of the finest workmanship, K1911's and K31's represent some of the finest around. These are usually found in excellent condition as far as mechanically but may be well worn on the exterior finish /stock The ammo GP11 anticipates the U.S. Army's adoption of 7.62 Nato by forty years. That being said, the surplus ammo is drying up and new ammo is the future of this caliber. Fortunately, for handloaders, it uses a std. .308 caliber bullet.
Arisakas represent one of the other great lines of milsurps. New Ammo is hit or miss but is available from several sources--a lot of sporterized versions seem to be floating around recently and you can find recent threads on the THR about these. You can find these less than $500 and often less than $400 in original configuration. Collectors seek ones that do not have the receiver scubbed of its chrysanthemum (the Emperor's symbol) post war. Shooters can pick up an identical rifle for significantly less if the mum is not present. Early T99's which use a round similar to the .303 (different brass design but similar pressures, bullet size, etc.) have chromed bores and often are quite good. Arisakas use Metford rifling with shallow grooves which can looks well worn but often shoots quite nicely.
There are others such as the Austrian M95 and associated carbines, Springfield Trapdoors, older Mausers such as the 1871 and 71/84 and the commission rifles of 1888, the hybrid Siamese Mauser (cross an Arisaka and a Mauser), and Mannlichers, Vetterlis, etc. that are really for collecting specialists and often do not have affordable/available ammo or may represent challenges such as firing safety, broken parts availability, etc.
Hope this helps you. BTW, the Prvi Partisan has helped bring back affordable ammo for many of these rifles but not all places stock every caliber that Prvi makes. Grafs and Sons is one place that stocks most of what Prvi makes and another good place is AIM surplus. Midway and Brownells stock some. Grafs and Midway are also good sources for reloading bullets and brass for these rifles. Norma makes some of the brass and ammo but is much higher. Other manufacturers make main line rounds such as .30-06, .308/7.62 Nato, .303 on occasion, 6.5, 7, and 8mm Mauser.
maxxhavoc
Member
Ones I own, ranked in my favorite down:
-Finn M39 Mosin
-Swedish Mauser
-M1903
-K31
-CZ Mauser
-Mosin
On my list to buy
-M9103A3
-SMLE
-Arisaka
-Finn M39 Mosin
-Swedish Mauser
-M1903
-K31
-CZ Mauser
-Mosin
On my list to buy
-M9103A3
-SMLE
-Arisaka
CoalTrain49
Member
Strong like Russian woman, beautiful like Russian tractor.
lysanderxiii
Member
Twenty?
That would not even cover all the Mauser variants . . .
That would not even cover all the Mauser variants . . .
It would be a good start though at an assortment of such rifles.
Clark
Member
I bought a 7mm Mauser in 1965 for $10
I bought a 7.7mm Arisaka in 2017 for $125
A lot of stuff happened in between.
I bought a 7.7mm Arisaka in 2017 for $125
A lot of stuff happened in between.
cdb1
Member
The only ones I'd care to own would be:
Swedish Mauser
1917 Enfield
K98.
Swedish Mauser
1917 Enfield
K98.
midland man
Member
I own a mosin nagant 91/30 7.62x54r and I like it just fine!!
Archie
Member
That's like naming one's favorite child.
Take a look at my blog when you get some time. I have reports on a number of WWI era military bolt rifles and I'm working on more (summer; I can shoot now!) Yes, this is shameless plug, but I'm not going to list them all again here. And it will give you some idea if you want 'that' sort or not.
oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com
It's free and no ads on my behalf. I guess Word Press - the host - has some.
entropy
Member
Well, I'll tell ya the ones I own, and the ones I'd like to own;
Mosin Nagant, Russian and Finnish
Mauser, Turkish
What I'd like to own;
Mosin Nagant; US made
Mauser, Gew98, Spanish 7mm, Swedish 6.5
Springfield, M1903 & A3
Schmidt Rubin K31
No.1 MkIII
SMLE (pre No1)
Lee-Metford
Ross
Berthier
Lebel
Dryse
Vetterli
Beaumont
Gras
Berdan
Mosin Nagant, Russian and Finnish
Mauser, Turkish
What I'd like to own;
Mosin Nagant; US made
Mauser, Gew98, Spanish 7mm, Swedish 6.5
Springfield, M1903 & A3
Schmidt Rubin K31
No.1 MkIII
SMLE (pre No1)
Lee-Metford
Ross
Berthier
Lebel
Dryse
Vetterli
Beaumont
Gras
Berdan
gsbuickman
Member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2016
- Messages
- 634
Well I have owned
2 mosin 91/30's
4 M44's
1Chinese type 53
And a pristine 91/59.
Also an enfield.303
A Swiss carabiner k-31
And 2 arisaka 98's
Now I have
An 1897 Steyr Norwegian Krag Jorgenson n 6.5 Swede
An 1891 Argentine Mauser in 7.65x55
An M94/14 Swedish Mauser carbine in 6.5 Swede
A VZ24 Lions head 8mm Yugo Mauser
And a custom arisaka type 83 in 22-250
2 mosin 91/30's
4 M44's
1Chinese type 53
And a pristine 91/59.
Also an enfield.303
A Swiss carabiner k-31
And 2 arisaka 98's
Now I have
An 1897 Steyr Norwegian Krag Jorgenson n 6.5 Swede
An 1891 Argentine Mauser in 7.65x55
An M94/14 Swedish Mauser carbine in 6.5 Swede
A VZ24 Lions head 8mm Yugo Mauser
And a custom arisaka type 83 in 22-250
Last edited:
Shanghai McCoy
Member
Yeah, that would work for me but I'd add a Krag as well just because of it's history ...
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
Buy and keep buying until you run out of space or money.
pretty easy to do on both counts
GunnyUSMC
Member
You should never put a limit on how many old bolt guns you should have. I have about 200 or more and still looking for more. I did run out of room a few years ago so, I closed in the carport and made me a 15'x25' shop. Pretty soon I may have to make another addition to my house.
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