military surplus rifle for a project?

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jason41987

member
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
1,293
im thinking of starting a new project that involves taking a military surplus bolt action, and converting it to a shorter rifle in a more common caliber (likely .308) and i was wondering which rifles are available that i can safely and effectively convert.

some criteria.. its probably best they had front locking lugs, clips that actually worked pretty reliably (sometimes the rounds get jammed up trying to feed them into a mosin nagant from the clip), and able to handle the pressurs of the .308 cartridge, and something that can be fired quickly (well, quickly in terms of its still a bolt action)

i have a nagant, and i dislike it, one of the biggest reasons is the bolt handle is too far forward, i find i have to shift a lot to reach it and pull it back, and the angle of the straight comb stock hurts my wrist after a while.. due to some damage ive sustained in my hands before.. it just makes my hands burn

two of my favorite military surplus rifles are two im not sure would be good candidates for a conversion are the K31 and the steyr M1895 and not for the fact theyre straight pulls, i like their magazines.. an en block for the steyr makes reloading pretty quick and easy.. and the stripper clips for the K31 cover the tips of the bullets and better protects them, but im fairly certain the steyr is too old for .308, i could be wrong.. and im not sure how K31 clips would work after converting to .308?

im open to rifle suggestions, im also open to caliber suggestions.. if theres a caliber one of these surplus rifles is in that i can actually readily find reloading components for, i may consider it.. and since most of these are long actions im not opposed to a .30-06 conversion either.. .30-06 tends to do better with heavier bullets anyway which would give better ballistic coefficiency and energy down range

hmm. i believe some of those steyrs were made in 8mm mauser.. thats not a cartridge thats particularly hard to find reloading components for, i believe .30-06 brass can be reformed?.. but i believe an 8mm mauser rifle would only require a barrel for a .30-06/.308 conversion?

my biggest concern with most these old rifles though is many shoot bullets that arent easy to find.. .306 in the K-31, .311-.312 in the mosin and lee enfields, .310 in the MAS-36 i believe and its hard enough to find ammo as it is..

so.. suggestions?
 
Butchering military rifles was something that was all the rage in the 1960's. I was guilty of it myself. Today, not so much. People have come to appreciate these guns for what they are -- a bit of history to be preserved. Even the lowly Mosin should probably be left alone.
 
not exactly butchering it if im just doing a caliber conversion which is just a barrel change for a lot of them.. but even if i was going to keep the original caliber id probably still want a newer, better barrel.. a lot of those rifles were made quickly without much quality control

the other reason is i find myself trusting bolt actions more and more than the modern tactical semi autos.. i have an AK-74 and the one id be more likely to grab in any situation would be the bolt action.. more power, more penetration, more range, more accuracy, and i feel they have a better balance and often point better too.. and this is my mosin nagant that i otherwise cant stand for other ergonomic issues.. so having one really good bolt action i can completely trust and rely on would be more like a companion.. my go-to rifle than just a wall hanger or something to target shoot with

but the problem is, the work i plan on putting into one and the amount of practice i plan to do, firing in something not even made anymore like for example 7.5x55 swiss is just going to hinder me, as i just wont be able to afford the ammo or even the reloading components to practice as often hense the conversion to 308 or 30-06
 
First off, the K-31 shoots .308 bullets so there's no reason not to reload it as-is. Lots of info on this online, and here at THR too, if you search.

And you'll never do a thing to it that will improve it in any way. (Seriously...you've shot one but you think you could make it BETTER? No way!) So put that one out of your head.

Realistically, there are two options:

1) Scour the gun shows and used racks of your local gun shops -- and ask the proprietors about their junk bins of stuff they don't put out on display. Find yourself either a barreled action from an old Mauser or 1903/1903A3 or Model of 1917, or one of those grand old guns that was badly sporterized back in the day. Do whatever you want to that rifle.

NOTE: Some Mausers do not have a long enough action for a standard-length .30-'06. The 8x57 cartridge is shorter (though about the same power) and the actions were built to handle that. Why you'd really want to convert from 8x57 -- which is a fantastic round -- to a .30-'06 (also fantastic but substantively identical) if you'll handload both anyway is a mystery.

2) Save yourself a lot of money and buy a new manufacture rifle that will shoot 2x better for 1/3 the price you'll spend on fix-up parts trying to Remlinchester-ify an old military surplus rifle.
 
a lot of those rifles were made quickly without much quality control
Click to expand...
Good grief! You just used uttered that phrase and "K-31" in the same thread! 50 lashes with a boresnake for you!

7.5x55 swiss is just going to hinder me, as i just wont be able to afford the ammo or even the reloading components to practice as often hense the conversion to 308 or 30-06
Click to expand...
You can buy a HELLLUVA lot of Swiss 7.5mm ammo for the price you'll pay to rebarrel one to some other cartridge and make the action work right. And two hells of a lot of components for that much! 7.5 Swiss is a great round -- very similar to a .308 Win. -- and easy to reload for with very common powders and bullets.

Remember that, unless what you're converting TO is very, very close in case dimensions to the cartridge the rifle was chambered for, slapping on a new barrel is --by far-- the easy part. Bolt face, extraction, and <shudder> feed lips and other mag issues will be the devil you pay a 'smith big bux to work out.
 
Last edited:
7.5x55 is listed as having a bullet diameter of .306, whats the actual bore diameter on these rifles typically?

also, thats why i said i wanted one that could be converted rather easily to .308 or .30-06.. i believe 8mm mauser chambered rifles have the same base diameter and are fairly easy conversions, dont know about the other ones though
 
The correct bullet for 7.5 Swiss is .308".

From Wiki:

Despite its nomenclature, the 7.5×55mm Swiss can with proper care use the same 7.62 mm (.308 in) bullets as conventional Western 7.62 mm (.308 in) cartridges that have slightly wider land and groove diameters. This allows for ease of handloading and custom competition or hunting loads, as nearly any .308 diameter bullet may be used. However, most Swiss match shooters use standard GP 11 ammunition, a testament to the accuracy of the GP 11 round.
Click to expand...

You could buy any of the Mausers or Enfields in original military trim and have just as easy a time reloading for them as you would for .30-'06.

.303 British, 7x57mm Mauser, 8x57 Mauser, 6.5x55 Swedish, 7.5 Swiss, .30-'06, .308/7.62NATO -- one just as easy to load for as another and none of the components are really any harder to find than the others. Converting them makes very little sense, especially considering the completely upside-down cost accounting of doing such a thing.
 
Convert a Mauser to .308 and you will be following in the footsteps of so many countries modernizing to the .308.
 
Oh, surely, but for a handloader converting from 8x57mm Mauser to .308 is a bit like spending the cash and nights in the garage to convert your F350 pickup to a Chevy 350 V8. Lots of work to no appreciable gain.
 
Why don't you just buy one of the already converted 308 enfields from india or I thought they made them from a company in Australia that took m 14 mags.
 
Australian International Arms -- they called it the No.4 Mk IV. I've never seen one, though.

Would really like one of their mini Enfields that shoots 7.62x39 with AK mags, though! The M10-A1.

And yes, there are Ishapore armory .308 Enfields (the 2A or 2A1). And there are some Israeli .308 Mausers, too.
 
well, converting 8mm to 30-06 would be pointless, brass is about the same price, and .323 bullets are pretty easy to find, but i looked at some more information of the k-31 and a lot of people slugging their barrels got a bore of .306.. seems a bit tight for .308
 
the MAS36 was 308, the K11/K31 was a 306 but that's measured from the lands not the grooves so its no big deal to stuff a 308 down the pipe. the steyr can be converted but I don't know how you would do it. everything about it is set up for rimmed cartridges from the enblocs to the bolt face. a rimless conversion would be difficult to say the least. at least the K31 is already set up for a non rimmed cartridge.
 
.308s what youd have to use though.. ive never seen .306 bullets.. wouldnt you get better performance if you had a new barrel .308 bore in 7.5x55mm?
 
I referenced a link some time back on a mosin post talking about the same thing. Over seas the way they measure bore diameter differs from the American way to measure.
 
jason41987 said:
7.5x55 is listed as having a bullet diameter of .306, whats the actual bore diameter on these rifles typically?
Click to expand...

Mine slugs at .308". Converting to .308 winchester would involve modifying the boltface though, the 7.5 Swiss uses a larger rim diameter.

Buy a bunch of PPU 7.5 Swiss ammo. Yes, GP11 ammo is top notch, but the PPU is reloadable and not that much more expensive.

What is the end goal of your project? For the cost of gunsmithing and whatnot, you could easily buy something like the Ruger American with a detachable mag for quick reloads and reviews have been showing pretty reliable MOA performance.
 
well, right now there are primarily 3 rifles im considering, the K31 in 7.5x55 (brass from prvi is really little more expensive than .30-06 brass).. also looking at the mauser.. again, around the same price as the 7.5 and .30-06 for brass, and .323 bullets are easy to find too.. and then for the purpose of a go-to rifle for any situation, its hard to ignore the 10-shot capacity of the lee enfield, and its capabilities of being fired incredibly fast if need be

however.. i want something hard hidding, accurate, with deep penetration over rapid-fire capabilities, id probably be more inclined to save up for a german mauser and leave it as is.. or more likely get a barreled action that doesnt have much value as a collectors item anyway to refinish, rebuild, and hand carve a brand new military style stock for

havent hand carved a rifle stock before, but i have hand carved quite a few guitar necks so i have skilled use of the tools, id just need to get myself some templates.. i think that could give me something to do

since winters almost here now, ill be spending a lot of time indoors or in my garage with little or nothing to do in my spare time.. having some kind of a project will be good
 
Sam1911 said:
Australian International Arms -- they called it the No.4 Mk IV. I've never seen one, though.

Would really like one of their mini Enfields that shoots 7.62x39 with AK mags, though! The M10-A1.

And yes, there are Ishapore armory .308 Enfields (the 2A or 2A1). And there are some Israeli .308 Mausers, too.
Click to expand...
I thought they might be importing them again but $1000 seems a little steep. I wanna say Gander mountain was going to carry them.

They seem pretty neat.
 
Because of the amount of machining in the K31 barrel breech, it's not a good prospect for rebarreling. The surfaces that the locking lugs work against for primary extraction are in the barrel breech, unlike almost every other turn bolt action; as a result, I know of only one gunsmith in the US who has perfected a method of rebarreling them. Then you have the problem of top ejection, which means a scope has to be mounted offset or 'scout' style. I love the K31 and have several of them, but it's a rifle that needs to stay with its' original barrel and caliber.

By the way, issue GP11 ammunition as well as all the commercial loads use .308" bullets, and deliver outstanding accuracy.

IMHO, if you want to build your own .308 Winchester rifle, you can't do better than a Yugo 24/47 or Model 48. Choice of barrels ready chambered and easy to fit, several great triggers available, preinletted stocks in wood or laminate, scope mounts by all the major makers, etc. You might even end up with a new go-to rifle!
 
hmm, i didnt know the bolt locked inside the barrel breach on the K31.. yeah, i agree then that would probably be the worst choice.. in fact, might even be a deal breaker because im looking for something to be my most trusted rifle through thousands of rounds of practice for years to come.. K31 barrel would get shot out at that point and seems like theyd be a pain in the rear to get a new barrel for.. so im going to avoid the K31 for my current needs

this leaves me with the enfield and mauser designs, and im thinking id probably rather go with the mauser.. i probably wont convert it though as its really going to cost me the same to make and shoot .30-06 ammo as it would 8mm mauser.. 8mm mauser will hit a lot harder too having a bigger, heavier projectile

so, which non german mausers are the most like the K98 that would be essentially the same exact rifle, but cheaper?
 
wouldnt you get better performance if you had a new barrel .308 bore in 7.5x55mm?
Click to expand...
No. You aren't likely to improve on those amazing Swiss barrels.

in fact, might even be a deal breaker because im looking for something to be my most trusted rifle through thousands of rounds of practice for years to come.. K31 barrel would get shot out at that point and seems like theyd be a pain in the rear to get a new barrel for.
Click to expand...
Have you ever shot out a barrel before? Have you determined the reduction in accuracy you would consider to indicate a barrel is "shot out" and calculated the amount of ammunition/money/range time it will take to get you to that point?

Putting 15K or 20K or 30K however many thousands of rounds through a bolt-action rifle is a wonderful thing -- a REALLY great thing -- but very, very, VERY few people ever get anywhere close to that kind of round count. Not on all the bolt action rifles they'll ever own, let alone just one of them. And when you're looking at $8,000 or $10,000 worth of ammo to hit those numbers, buying another $300 rifle some years down the road (or buying two, now) doesn't seem like that big a deal.




(Yes, precision rifle shooters and other match competitors, especially firing high velocity overbore type cartridges, will "shoot out" a barrel in 5,000 rounds or less, but we're talking about a military surplus rifle in a mild cartridge. You won't be tossing this barrel out if your group size increases by .5" so barrel life is much longer.)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
  • Locked
When is this room going to do another Surplus rifle shoot off?
Replies
15
Views
702
plinky
P
S
  • Locked
Best surplus bolt action rifle?
2
Replies
30
Views
2K
offthepaper
O
_N4Z_
  • Locked
surplus rifle bug
Replies
10
Views
731
MJ
MJ
O
  • Locked
Military Surplus Rifles?
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
Ohio Rifleman
O
B
  • Locked
7.62 Military Surplus
Replies
16
Views
1K
rbernie
rbernie
Back
Top