Nakedshoplifter
Member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2007
- Messages
- 12
Sage,
If you want to do something like that, do some homework first. This was not possible w/o the help of like-minded individuals like me who attended the meeting, supported my actions, and helped research the issue of recording in a public library. I did not ask the library what the policy was, a member of oppencarry.org emailed the library and got their position on the matter. After learning that they would not allow the MMM group to censor my taping of the meeting we proceeded.
While I am getting the spotlight for this, I was certainly not the only player involved. I just happened to be the guy with the camera. I wouldn't advise doing this alone, bring as many supporters with you as possible and pack the room. The first meeting we attended, we equaled the number of MMM supporters with our attendance!
Here is my writeup of the first event:
I arrived at Caribou Coffee at 6:30 PM for the pre-MMM meetup. Several other OCDO members were in attendance and we ran into “The Donkey” by chance while there. Some of you may remember him as the Jim Webb supporter at two of the VCDL meetings who also was thrown out of a Senator Allen appearance for the crime of OC’ing. We talked about behavior at the MMM meeting among other topics.
We left at 6:45 and arrived at the library at 6:50. We found the meeting room and collected just outside at the reception desk while waiting for an OCDO member to change out of his motorcycle riding gear. While waiting for this member, we noticed a gentleman inside the meeting who we didn’t recognize who was OC’ing. Things appeared calm inside the room and people were chatting.
We entered the room as a group and while I could tell that the MMM organizers were irritated by our presence, we were basically ignored. I have a feeling the man in blue had informed them that many more of us would be showing up. After arriving in the room we checked out their table with literature and information and most of us collected one of each paper provided to read and or take home with us. I took one of each for my records.
I had my video camera with me and at this time, and notified one of the organizers “Laura” that I intended to film the meeting. This is when the nasty, rude, and spiteful nature of this woman became apparent. She hissed at me “You will not film this meeting. We won’t allow it so please keep your camera turned off”. She repeated the statement a few more times perhaps thinking that I have a difficulty grasping our native language. She then turned from me and walked away, then hesitated, turned around and addressed all of us as a group saying “And don’t touch any of the food either, this table (pointing to the food and drink table) is not for you”.
I didn’t catch all of the comment but at this time I heard a man call out loudly “You can shoot anyone you want”. I turned to see an older (60’s) grey haired man with a school-boy “gotcha” smirk on his face. He sure looked proud of himself. Since I had just had the episode with Laura about filming I replied “Oh really? You’re giving me permission to film you with my camera?” I never got a reply. I think the MMM group realized that saying outlandish things like that would not be useful; I didn’t overhear any more crazy comments while waiting for the meeting to start.
We took our seats after a bit and waited for the meeting to start. OCDO member Unrequited had a shoulder holster on which points the muzzle of his handgun rearwards. The lady sitting behind him didn’t like the fact a gun was pointed at her and while I didn’t hear the full conversation, it seemed like she asked him to move or tilt his chair so it pointed another direction.
The meeting started shortly with an introduction by Linda, MMM Northern VA Chapter President. Her part of the meeting involved discussing information about where you could and could not legally carry a gun. She used a projector to show PowerPoint slides of her talking points. This is where I started taking notes.
Linda spoke about how easy it is to get a CC permit in VA, not much if any training required. I wrote this down because I wanted to tell her that criminals don’t need a permit or any training to CC a handgun anywhere they please.
She said you can’t take guns into a church. We corrected her with the correct VA Code wording “without good and sufficient reason”. This is where they got irritated that we had corrected them and shown that they may not know everything or be presenting the whole truth. Linda seemed to accept the correction, but Laura in the back of the room asked us to not interrupt the meeting again.
She said anyone could bring a gun onto school property as long as they left the gun cased and in the car.
Next up was Bob Ricker. He introduced himself and ticked off his “gun credentials”. One thing that caught my attention was he said he owned an “assault weapon”. I thought it was odd that he owned a fully automatic rifle as they are mad expensive and “serve no sporting purpose”. Also, being a speaker a Brady event, why would they want an automatic weapon owner to speak for them? I know he was referring to a semi-automatic rifle but his term was incorrect.
He then asked how many permit holders are in VA. We replied 135K. Wow, were allowed to speak! He then made a blanket statement that all the gun owners in attendance were VCDL members and asked us to raise our hands to identify if we were carrying firearms. Those of us OC’ing identified ourselves. He then asked how many members VCDL has. Jim Kaddison, VCDL EM told him we have 3,500 members. Mr. Ricker then stretched the facts and said “so these folks (135K permit holders) represent only 1% of the population of VA, they are not the majority, the rest of the state does not accept their views and rejects them”. I pointed out that 135K persons represent 2% of the population, not 1%. I also tried to tell him that “not applying for a CC permit does not in turn equate rejecting the philosophy of VCDL or firearms ownership in general”. I don’t remember the exact time when it occurred but this may have been when Laura from the back of the room said “"This is our meeting, we don't have to let you talk, and you need to SHUT UP!" Up to this point we had been correcting the blatant misstatements on an infrequent basis, but not being negative about it. Just correcting falsehood with truth.
Bob then said he has a CC permit but rarely uses it. He only goes to “safe areas” so he rarely has a need. But, he said if he goes to somewhere he feels might be unsafe or questionable he will CC. He finished off by saying he didn’t know why someone would want to carry all the time when the area is safe. I called out “Such as a college campus!” I wanted to ask Bob where he had traveled where he felt unsafe and had CC’d.
Bob next brushed on arming students on campus, and that it was a bad idea to let “kids” who are just out of high school, 18, 19 years old to carry guns on campus. He never directly said CC but he implied the “kids” would be concealed carrying. I wanted to point out that 18-20 year old college students would be required to OC on campus, which would discourage most of them from carrying.
Next bob called an Uzi a “long gun”. Under the most liberal interpretation an Uzi is a short barreled rifle. I consider them pistols.
Bob said that campuses do a poor job regulating underage drinking, so how would they regulate guns on campus any better? He was implying that students are irresponsible, the school administration doesn’t control them, and adding guns to the equation would have deadly consequences.
Next he talked about VA not doing a good job stopping mentally defective citizens from buying guns, Cho being an example. He did not allow anyone to refute this or say VA is one of the better states for reporting mental problems to the government.
He brought up straw purchases, stating a woman in WV bought six handguns at one time to pass to criminals. She was prosecuted and served time in prison. I can’t recall if the dealer was prosecuted or not. Somehow, VA is still a problem for illegal guns even after the one gun a month rule. Bob thinks all firearms should be registered in a database. I wanted to ask him if we should regulate and register fertilizer products as well (OKC).
One of the MMM ladies then broke in and asked Bob “what is a semi-automatic handgun, and what is the benefit of owning one compared to other types of guns”. She implies that semi’s are designed to be more efficient killing tools. I think one of the OCDO members said “They are good enough for the police, why not us?”. Another replied “revolvers take more time to clean, they have six cylinders” (That comment came after the meeting ended and we were talking to that lady) The lady repeated “I don’t se the need for them” several times.
Finally according to my notes, Bob said “Have you noticed during sporting events on TV such as the Super Bowl there are public service announcements telling viewers not to drink and drive, or smoking is bad for them and offering assistance to quit? Now, have you ever seen a firearms manufacturer air a PSA telling kids guns are dangerous, to leave them alone, and find an adult to secure them?” (I’m paraphrasing what he said, this is not exact… in fact, none of my quotes are direct quotes) Again, since we weren’t allowed to speak I kept my mouth shut. But, I wanted to tell him no PSA’s are necessary because THERE IS NO PROBLEM concerning firearms like there is for drunk driving or smoking. You don’t waste money airing a PSA for a non-issue. Smoking is one of the greatest killers known. Drunk driving is a HUGE problem. He did say the NRA has the “Eddie Eagle” program but in the next breath he said Eddie Eagle is nothing more than cartoon propaganda like Joe Camel. After this my notes end stop so I think this is where the meeting ended.
We stuck around in the room for a few minutes talking to the MMM ladies answering questions. The one lady with the semi-automatic problem acted very self righteous and snobby, but was respectful unlike the other lady (Laura). I could see we were talking to a brick wall and walked outside the room.
In the hallway Laura came walking up to me as I waited on some OCDO members to finish talking and exit the room. She told me I needed to hand her literature back to her. I asked her why and she said it was her property and I had stolen it from her. “Stole them?” I asked. She said “Yes, I paid for these papers to be printed, they are not for you and you will give them back to me now”. We went back and forth a few times and I decided to give them back to shut her up. She was really pissed off (had been all night too!). I informed her that I would be filming the next MMM meeting in Centreville. She had a hissy fit on the spot and told me several times she wouldn’t allow that to happen. I can’t remember but I think I told her that she could not stop me from taking video of a public meeting in a taxpayer funded library. I turned and walked away from her.
Hopefully the audio recording that Chefjustin made can correct anything I typed wrong in this report. This is all from my memory backed up by my notes. We went to a restaurant later and talked at length about the experience and I’m hoping I’m not confusing the restaurant talk with the factual account of what really occurred.
If you want to do something like that, do some homework first. This was not possible w/o the help of like-minded individuals like me who attended the meeting, supported my actions, and helped research the issue of recording in a public library. I did not ask the library what the policy was, a member of oppencarry.org emailed the library and got their position on the matter. After learning that they would not allow the MMM group to censor my taping of the meeting we proceeded.
While I am getting the spotlight for this, I was certainly not the only player involved. I just happened to be the guy with the camera. I wouldn't advise doing this alone, bring as many supporters with you as possible and pack the room. The first meeting we attended, we equaled the number of MMM supporters with our attendance!
Here is my writeup of the first event:
I arrived at Caribou Coffee at 6:30 PM for the pre-MMM meetup. Several other OCDO members were in attendance and we ran into “The Donkey” by chance while there. Some of you may remember him as the Jim Webb supporter at two of the VCDL meetings who also was thrown out of a Senator Allen appearance for the crime of OC’ing. We talked about behavior at the MMM meeting among other topics.
We left at 6:45 and arrived at the library at 6:50. We found the meeting room and collected just outside at the reception desk while waiting for an OCDO member to change out of his motorcycle riding gear. While waiting for this member, we noticed a gentleman inside the meeting who we didn’t recognize who was OC’ing. Things appeared calm inside the room and people were chatting.
We entered the room as a group and while I could tell that the MMM organizers were irritated by our presence, we were basically ignored. I have a feeling the man in blue had informed them that many more of us would be showing up. After arriving in the room we checked out their table with literature and information and most of us collected one of each paper provided to read and or take home with us. I took one of each for my records.
I had my video camera with me and at this time, and notified one of the organizers “Laura” that I intended to film the meeting. This is when the nasty, rude, and spiteful nature of this woman became apparent. She hissed at me “You will not film this meeting. We won’t allow it so please keep your camera turned off”. She repeated the statement a few more times perhaps thinking that I have a difficulty grasping our native language. She then turned from me and walked away, then hesitated, turned around and addressed all of us as a group saying “And don’t touch any of the food either, this table (pointing to the food and drink table) is not for you”.
I didn’t catch all of the comment but at this time I heard a man call out loudly “You can shoot anyone you want”. I turned to see an older (60’s) grey haired man with a school-boy “gotcha” smirk on his face. He sure looked proud of himself. Since I had just had the episode with Laura about filming I replied “Oh really? You’re giving me permission to film you with my camera?” I never got a reply. I think the MMM group realized that saying outlandish things like that would not be useful; I didn’t overhear any more crazy comments while waiting for the meeting to start.
We took our seats after a bit and waited for the meeting to start. OCDO member Unrequited had a shoulder holster on which points the muzzle of his handgun rearwards. The lady sitting behind him didn’t like the fact a gun was pointed at her and while I didn’t hear the full conversation, it seemed like she asked him to move or tilt his chair so it pointed another direction.
The meeting started shortly with an introduction by Linda, MMM Northern VA Chapter President. Her part of the meeting involved discussing information about where you could and could not legally carry a gun. She used a projector to show PowerPoint slides of her talking points. This is where I started taking notes.
Linda spoke about how easy it is to get a CC permit in VA, not much if any training required. I wrote this down because I wanted to tell her that criminals don’t need a permit or any training to CC a handgun anywhere they please.
She said you can’t take guns into a church. We corrected her with the correct VA Code wording “without good and sufficient reason”. This is where they got irritated that we had corrected them and shown that they may not know everything or be presenting the whole truth. Linda seemed to accept the correction, but Laura in the back of the room asked us to not interrupt the meeting again.
She said anyone could bring a gun onto school property as long as they left the gun cased and in the car.
Next up was Bob Ricker. He introduced himself and ticked off his “gun credentials”. One thing that caught my attention was he said he owned an “assault weapon”. I thought it was odd that he owned a fully automatic rifle as they are mad expensive and “serve no sporting purpose”. Also, being a speaker a Brady event, why would they want an automatic weapon owner to speak for them? I know he was referring to a semi-automatic rifle but his term was incorrect.
He then asked how many permit holders are in VA. We replied 135K. Wow, were allowed to speak! He then made a blanket statement that all the gun owners in attendance were VCDL members and asked us to raise our hands to identify if we were carrying firearms. Those of us OC’ing identified ourselves. He then asked how many members VCDL has. Jim Kaddison, VCDL EM told him we have 3,500 members. Mr. Ricker then stretched the facts and said “so these folks (135K permit holders) represent only 1% of the population of VA, they are not the majority, the rest of the state does not accept their views and rejects them”. I pointed out that 135K persons represent 2% of the population, not 1%. I also tried to tell him that “not applying for a CC permit does not in turn equate rejecting the philosophy of VCDL or firearms ownership in general”. I don’t remember the exact time when it occurred but this may have been when Laura from the back of the room said “"This is our meeting, we don't have to let you talk, and you need to SHUT UP!" Up to this point we had been correcting the blatant misstatements on an infrequent basis, but not being negative about it. Just correcting falsehood with truth.
Bob then said he has a CC permit but rarely uses it. He only goes to “safe areas” so he rarely has a need. But, he said if he goes to somewhere he feels might be unsafe or questionable he will CC. He finished off by saying he didn’t know why someone would want to carry all the time when the area is safe. I called out “Such as a college campus!” I wanted to ask Bob where he had traveled where he felt unsafe and had CC’d.
Bob next brushed on arming students on campus, and that it was a bad idea to let “kids” who are just out of high school, 18, 19 years old to carry guns on campus. He never directly said CC but he implied the “kids” would be concealed carrying. I wanted to point out that 18-20 year old college students would be required to OC on campus, which would discourage most of them from carrying.
Next bob called an Uzi a “long gun”. Under the most liberal interpretation an Uzi is a short barreled rifle. I consider them pistols.
Bob said that campuses do a poor job regulating underage drinking, so how would they regulate guns on campus any better? He was implying that students are irresponsible, the school administration doesn’t control them, and adding guns to the equation would have deadly consequences.
Next he talked about VA not doing a good job stopping mentally defective citizens from buying guns, Cho being an example. He did not allow anyone to refute this or say VA is one of the better states for reporting mental problems to the government.
He brought up straw purchases, stating a woman in WV bought six handguns at one time to pass to criminals. She was prosecuted and served time in prison. I can’t recall if the dealer was prosecuted or not. Somehow, VA is still a problem for illegal guns even after the one gun a month rule. Bob thinks all firearms should be registered in a database. I wanted to ask him if we should regulate and register fertilizer products as well (OKC).
One of the MMM ladies then broke in and asked Bob “what is a semi-automatic handgun, and what is the benefit of owning one compared to other types of guns”. She implies that semi’s are designed to be more efficient killing tools. I think one of the OCDO members said “They are good enough for the police, why not us?”. Another replied “revolvers take more time to clean, they have six cylinders” (That comment came after the meeting ended and we were talking to that lady) The lady repeated “I don’t se the need for them” several times.
Finally according to my notes, Bob said “Have you noticed during sporting events on TV such as the Super Bowl there are public service announcements telling viewers not to drink and drive, or smoking is bad for them and offering assistance to quit? Now, have you ever seen a firearms manufacturer air a PSA telling kids guns are dangerous, to leave them alone, and find an adult to secure them?” (I’m paraphrasing what he said, this is not exact… in fact, none of my quotes are direct quotes) Again, since we weren’t allowed to speak I kept my mouth shut. But, I wanted to tell him no PSA’s are necessary because THERE IS NO PROBLEM concerning firearms like there is for drunk driving or smoking. You don’t waste money airing a PSA for a non-issue. Smoking is one of the greatest killers known. Drunk driving is a HUGE problem. He did say the NRA has the “Eddie Eagle” program but in the next breath he said Eddie Eagle is nothing more than cartoon propaganda like Joe Camel. After this my notes end stop so I think this is where the meeting ended.
We stuck around in the room for a few minutes talking to the MMM ladies answering questions. The one lady with the semi-automatic problem acted very self righteous and snobby, but was respectful unlike the other lady (Laura). I could see we were talking to a brick wall and walked outside the room.
In the hallway Laura came walking up to me as I waited on some OCDO members to finish talking and exit the room. She told me I needed to hand her literature back to her. I asked her why and she said it was her property and I had stolen it from her. “Stole them?” I asked. She said “Yes, I paid for these papers to be printed, they are not for you and you will give them back to me now”. We went back and forth a few times and I decided to give them back to shut her up. She was really pissed off (had been all night too!). I informed her that I would be filming the next MMM meeting in Centreville. She had a hissy fit on the spot and told me several times she wouldn’t allow that to happen. I can’t remember but I think I told her that she could not stop me from taking video of a public meeting in a taxpayer funded library. I turned and walked away from her.
Hopefully the audio recording that Chefjustin made can correct anything I typed wrong in this report. This is all from my memory backed up by my notes. We went to a restaurant later and talked at length about the experience and I’m hoping I’m not confusing the restaurant talk with the factual account of what really occurred.
