Mini Milling Machine

[gwillys]

schmeky, dont mess around with anything other than a good vise and a solid set up. the one i linked to above is very high quality. you need it. and some parallels.

btw, i rarely mill steel. when i do, i use 'tap magic' for lube.

 

[krs]

Schmeky,
Yeah, you CAN clamp your work directly onto the mill table, to answer your question.

I don't mean to say that you won't need or want any of the equipment recommended for you here by these guys because everything mentioned has purposes in either making some things you may want to do possible or in making everything you do easier and more precise.

The clamping sets that are sold practically everywhere will handle all number of sizes and shapes of things once you get used to using them. In general one bolt, one T-nut, one straight piece, and one triangular piece make one clamp. The combinations available from your set are to clamp various heights of workpiece. The odd looking triangular pieces work with the straight pieces to form what's usually called a step clamp. Sometimes more than one of any of the pieces may be needed to build an effective clamping but usually one of each piece = one clamp.

The point is to clamp the work down firmly and straight down onto the table. This means that the straight pieces should be horizontal. The bolt through their hole and into the T-nut that fits in the grooves cut in the machine table. The stepped pieces are what brings the 'free' end of the straight piece up to horizontal. Think of it as being like building a bridge.

Make clamps TIGHT. This is part of why a vise is good for clamping. It's much faster and it can exert more pressure than you could put out using a one foot wrench.

I think that for a machine of this size 44-Henry is right in saying that most of your work will involve mills of 3/8" or smaller so just those collets will be enough for a while. Thing is that sets of R8 collets are almost always on sale so if you just get a set up to 3/4" or 1" you'll be set up and done with it.

The mill holders are more rigid than collets are but they also take away another inch of your work space. Always keep the amount of room an accessory takes between your spindle and your table. Just for fun take a 1/2" drill bit and put it in that chuck you have. As you start the bit into the chuck look at the space between the drill tip and your table - you'll see what I mean.

All the 'stuff ' seems kind of overwhelming right now, I'll bet. It'll get better. Just go slow and don't buy anything you're not sure you need. Keep reading and before long you'll be using the mill in the way you use a pocketknife - routine.

Here's a place that offers better prices on some of the stuff, in case you haven't found them yet: http://www.cdcotools.com/

There's plenty of places to get tooling and I'd guess everybody gets their own set of favorites and I'm sure I don't know half of them. Enco is widely known and they have pretty good prices each month. They also have 'secret' codes that can give free shipping. You'll see the code posted in the first few days of most months in machining and welding forums. A lot of this tooling is pretty heavy so any break on shipping can help a lot.

 

[schmeky]

I'm not ashamed to say it, but right now I feel overwhelmed. I at this point in time I'm at the bottom of Mt. Learning Curve. Before I do anything, I'm going to take the advice of you guys and learn as much as I can before I do anything on the mill.

I'm going to look for some videos and tutorials. I see the logic in the vise, makes perfect sense now that it's rational has been explained. I will purchase what I need to be safe and proficient, but I may have to wait a couple weeks, and simply order a few baiscs to start.

Please don't leave me now. I need input from you guys.

 

[lesterg3]

Schmeky,

I have not read all of the posts on this thread so if I am offering advice that has previously been submitted please forgive me.

Is there any chance that your local community college has any machining courses available?

If they do this would give you a good opportunity to do some basic machining, on a variety of machines, at a very low cost to familiarize yourself with different types of machine tools and what they can and cannot do. It would also be good experience for you.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[freakshow10mm]

Take it slow. Get a few chunks of 6061 aluminum and make chips. Aluminum is easy to machine and learn on. Machining is speeds and feeds (speed of tool and how fast you feed it into the workpiece).

 

[krs]

It's OK schmeky, I'm sure that everyone who's posted here and many more who haven't know exactly how you're feeling about it.

You're on the right track exactly. By asking before spending you're going to save a lot of bucks and maybe more importantly, a lot of frustration.

See if you can find a place that works with aluminum and ask for a few drops - they're unused cutoff pieces. It's not likely anymore that you'll find any place that throws the stuff into a dumpster for free Sunday pickup by scrounging home machinists but maybe someone will let you have a couple or even one chunk of something. There's a lot of people selling cutoff metals in ebay - I used to buy a lot of good stuff from some guy who had a contract with Boeing in Seattle to take away their scrap, or buy it. I found him in ebay and I've still got a lot of 7075 pieces of 3/8" and 1/2" sheets, nine years later. The thing to look out for, again, is shipping costs. If you do buy from ebay sellers make sure you know what the cost will be before making a bid.

You want metals to practice and learn with, or on. Screwups in scrap metal don't count. So try out shaving that apply piston on scrap before going on to the money part.

You'll find that cutting is a big problem. You won't like trying to cut a piece of big stock to size with your mill. It doesn't work good and you'll have bought every chip that goes on the floor.

A lot of people like the small bandsaw that Harbor Freight sells, and there's lots of good info about modifying the little sucker to do all kinds of tricks or work for people better, just like what you're probably seeing about the mini-mills.

Mainly get into the home machining forums and ask questions in those, just like here.

 

[schmeky]

Does this Seig Mini Mill require a collet holder, or will an R8 collet go directly into the spindle?

 

[gwillys]

its made for R8 collets, endmill holders & chucks - direct fit.

 

[Alchymist]

Here's one favorite, (just read the forum rules, the owner can get testy about home machinists & asian machines, but it's a good resource on all aspects of machining...
/www.practicalmachinist.com/

 

[Rex B]

Be aware that Seig X2 mills come with either MT3 or R8 spindle, depending on what brand you buy.
Get the R8 unless you have an MT3 lathe that you want to share tooling with.

 

[jack404]

G'day Schmeky

heres my small smithing workshop at home



yes the seig machines will cut the grades of steel your after but you will need to get the specs right on the machine

the grizzly spec is 400 watt motors not 250 which most X2's have

this is enough to drive your tools

you may have to relax the metal first for some applications and heat temper it again afterwards but thats not hard

but i do rifl and pistol work on these small machines and have made quite a few from scratch ( after the 2 months of paper work for Australia)

hope this helps

jack

oh in the pic i have a chuck in the mill i also have collets up the yin yang but in this shot i was useing a buff pad a few mins before

i prefer ER 25 Spring collets but we be metric folks here R8 would be more suited to your own world

 

[Rex B]

Re cutting big pieces down to sizes that fit your mill.
For sheet up to about 1/2" thick, you can use a carbide tipped table saw. Use a new 10" blade with 40 or more teeth.
WD40 makes a good cutting fluid for AL, on the saw or the mill.
Just a squirt now and then.

 

[schmeky]

Jack404,

That's an awesome set-up you have there. I'm jealous. Everything is close at hand and well organized. Hey Jack, that vise you have on your mill looks just like the one I have.

I just ordered an R8 collet set in 1/16's, from 1/8 thru 7/8. Received my clamping set today. Now I'm looking for a parallel set. Haven't cut the first thing yet

Have read up on numerous websites and have learned a lot. This is going to be fun. I plan on posting some project pics in the future.

 

[Alchymist]

His shop is green, mine is red. Otherwise the capabilities appear to be about the same. The second pic shows the aluminum square being milled to mount the Palmgren vice I mentioned earlier. The third pic shows just how versatile the vice mount can be. The piece in question needed a flat milled at an angle, the two vices are held by nothing more than two strong magnets. The last is a degree wheel that started out as a 6X6 inch piece of half inch aluminum. A hacksaw was used to cut off the 4 corners, all other work was done on the rotary table. In the pic it's set up to drill stop holes every 5 degrees around the edge. Not shown is a Proxon jeweler's drill that will hold a 1/4 inch drill, down to about a .02" drill. Uses either collets or a precision chuck. Very handy.

 

[jack404]

schmeky

Thanks mate

its awful messy today but its a nice little setup for me

some of the advice given here is excellent

Vise's cant say enough about them


a good toolmakers vice is a must as is the flat version i had mounted ( do not use the flats for super accurate work as they are too hard to index)

mounting directly to the table is great but if your machining it try putting a buffer peice under your work to lift it off the table enough to allow you through cut and some spare so you dont cut your table to peices

a X3 mill has way more power but i'm replacing my gear drive with a little machine shop belt drive kit in a month or so and this will bring the drive power up a lot

what i have spent on machine i have tripled with tooling

good tooling and mounting is 70% of any job

because your dealing with smaller machines they can be vibrated loose so check your tramming ( straightness of the mill head) and mounting regularly

to avoid mishaps

carbide tools for hard metals

2 flutes for deep cuts
4 for surface cuts

lots of simple stuff to learn

i've got a set of movies about useing workshop tooling that will show you a lot when it comes to setting up and machining

PM me a address and i'll put them on a DVD and send em its about 8 hours worth of video

cheers

jack

 

[44-henry]

Take a look at www.littlemachineshop.com and order the basic videos on milling from Swarf Rat. I purchased several of these videos that have been useful for some of the classes I teach because they break things down in very simple, easy to follow directions. These instructions are also geared towards the Asian mill and lathes.

 

[schmeky]

Jack404,

PM sent.

 

[schmeky]

Could keyway stock be used as a parallel?

 

[krs]

Accuracy......you've got to think in thousandth (.001") at least, tenths one ten thousandth of an inch - .(0001") is better.

Not that you'll achieve tenths accuracy all the time but thinking in those terms will make it easier to see that errors in thousandths are significant, if not huge.

I mentioned this far up in the thread, schmeky, and now with your question about keystock it's become timely.

Measure the keystock. If it is within .001" in all dimensions over it's entire length it'll do as a crappy parallel.

The cheapest parallels from China are within .0005" (that's one half of one thousandths of an inch) because they effect everything the mill does when you use them.

Remember how 1911Tuner will repeat the phrase "tolerance stacking" when he's describing how the parts of a 1911 fit or sometimes don't fit and work satisfactorily? The same term applies in your machining. One part that works against another part each of them .002" over their design size. That means that together they are .004" too big and in a pistol, say frame rails and slide fit the pistol won't go together. This may be an overly simple example to use but we ARE in a gun forum gunsmithing section.

If you use marginal set up tools you will obtain mediocre results. It's hard enough to machine accurately without deliberately handicapping your efforts.

OK?

I don't mean to sound like a perfectionist but I've made enough mistakes to have seen how important the smallest error can be someplace further along in any project.

It's time for thinking in very small increments. You have a set of calipers, right? Clean the jaws with a patch, then close them and zero the dial or readout. Now open your caliper to read .001" and hold it up to a light. Small, ain't it?

Some things have acceptable tolerances it's true but it will help you a lot not to begin to think in terms of acceptable tolerance. Tolerance = error. How much error is OK in your kid's racing transmission? How much error is acceptable to YOU?

 

[schmeky]

krs,

I understand. It's similiar to the production machine shop I was exposed to years ago. The shop foreman once told me a good machinist with quality tools, can produce excellent work from a substandard piece of equipment. This make sense to me. Proper set-up, measurement, and rechecking the work as you go is critical.

You're in essence saying if you add up a bunch of minus', don't expect a plus at the end of the equation. I have good set of mic's. I'll do a dimensional check on some key stock (which I should have done already) and see how consistent it is.

I do plan on buying a good parallel set soon. I guess I'm just getting anxious to get started.

Your transmission analogy is appropriate.

 

[Rex B]

I would suggest you can get by with some makeshift tooling while you learn the machine. You will be doing plenty of odd brackets and adapters as you figure out just what that little mill is good for. None of those will have critical dimensions.
Just make sure you know when your skill catches up with your tooling, and have good tooling on hand before you start a project that really counts.

 

[BCRider]

Jack 404, that's an awsome gunsmithing bench full of machines you've got there. Short of doing your own rifle barrels I can't imagine what you can't do unless it's make some of the larger jigs to hold the parts you're working on.

Schmecky, I loved your referene to Mt Learning Curve.... Truer words were never typed. I've been doing metal working as a hobby and sometimes fill in job for much of my 55 years on this ball of dirt and I'm still learning with each project. Sometimes it's the need for patience and thinking ahead and other times it's some new technique I read about and other times its figuring out how to recover from an "oops" or cutting something open and finding something you didn't expect.

If you're in a major center check out your local main library for metal working books. Get anything you can lay your hands on since it's free to borrow. Read it all and soak it in. Even the hand tool techniques can sometimes provide a hint on how to set up for machine cuts.

The others have guided you on vises and machines so all that's left now is learning to use it all. Never underestimate or dismiss the time and thought taken to hold the workpiece and how to arrange your cutting operations. I've often spent double or triple or even quadruple the time for the actual final product machining or making up jigs, cutting tools or other gizmos to allow me to machine the workpiece. Often the gismo ends up being a big "WTH is THIS!" when I come across it years later This is just the nature of the game.

As for using key stock as parallels the answer is "it depends". Only you can know if the tolerances on keystock are sufficient for the work you're doing. HOwever if it helps I've taken to keeping some ground HSS lathe tooling around to use as poor man's parallels. But I mic them before trusting them. Only one went back to getting ground into a tool bit and the others all passed muster being within around 1/2 to 1 thou over the 4 inch length or better. Check out rectangular tool bits that come in a variety of sizes. And do be sure to stone off the burrs on the edges before mic'ing them for size. The burr threw me on a couple of tests until I realized what was happening.

 

[schmeky]

BCRider,

Appreciate the response, the library suggestion is an excellent idea, thanx. I never copy anybody because I copy everyone.

I milled a couple of pieces of steel tonight just getting the feel for the mini-mill; I think this thing is the cats whiskers. Using a new 1/4" 4FL end mill on low speed, adequate lube/coolant, shallow cuts and slow feed speeds, I was amazed at the beauty of the milled surfaces.

Hell, I'm hooked

 

[schmeky]

I understand how to square the vise with the feed axis using my Starrett dial indicator. So how do I level an item? Can I use the dial indicator mounted in the spindle to do this as well? Could I -0- the dial indicator then run it along the part to be milled using the X axis feed, for instance?

How about leveling a small part?

 

[jack404]

schmeky

123 blocks, Vee block and square blocks are all ways to get small bits flat with the base ( or parralell)

its also why i stated putting somehing under your work to avoid damaging the table and removing what square you have there

tool steeel does not have guarenteed square edges i just measured some 3/8 sq tool steel and it varied a heap!

disks will go out tomorrow and i've added a pile of plans and how toos for setting up machines pertaining to gun making

and you see in the video's how to mark up and get stuff square

cheers

jack

glad you be makin chips