Mixed brass rifle loading.

[SamT1]

So I’m playing with some 223 loads in an AR. I have a ton of mixed brass. I have been separating it as I process it.
I decided to load the RP brass first. But I’m doing all the work of processing everything and that sucks. So today I decided to load up some RP and then load 2 of several others to test.
So I loaded 5 RP, 2 LC, 2 FEderal

I wish I took a picture because my results are odd. The 5RP clustered in a 1” group dead center. The 2 LC printed a half moa group about 1.5” low and left. The 2 federal sprinter another 1/2 moa group about 1” below the RP.

It’s odd because the federals seemed to have the lowest case capacity. I’m not sure what to think of my poi change and not sure if I should Load them all and sort into lots or sort through em.

 

[z7]

It depends on the volume of shooting and the accuracy you want. If you are not running at max and don’t see pressure signs, don’t read into the poi change too much other than the fact mixed headstamp brass will shoot larger groups

For 3 gun and general purpose ammo I am ok with 1.5 to 2 moa. I am using cheap bulk bullets, ball powder loaded progressively with a moderate charge, not “hot.” When I miss targets it is not because of my ammo. I use mixed brass as well

If I wanted to try some more specific ammo, like for hunting or targets, my methods change

For my 308 bolt gun I develop a load for each brass and each bullet looking for 1/2 moa to 3/4 moa and SD under 10fps for a target load and 3/4 moa to 1 moa for a hunting load,

If it appears safe, and the accuracy is acceptable, shoot away and enjoy

 

[Varminterror]

Sort ‘Em, pick one headstamp, sell or trade the rest to convert to one big batch of matched brass.

Personally, I would guess your results were in an antinode for your powder, and you’re a victim of positive compensation variation.

 

[jmorris]

I wish I took a picture because my results are odd. The 5RP clustered in a 1” group dead center. The 2 LC printed a half moa group about 1.5” low and left. The 2 federal sprinter another 1/2 moa group about 1” below the RP.

Your sample sizes are too small no matter what distance you are shooting at. A sample size of 5 is nothing and 2 might as well be 1 and that’s even if you are using a rest that eliminates the human element.

 

[Grumulkin]

So I’m playing with some 223 loads in an AR. I have a ton of mixed brass. I have been separating it as I process it.
I decided to load the RP brass first. But I’m doing all the work of processing everything and that sucks. So today I decided to load up some RP and then load 2 of several others to test.
So I loaded 5 RP, 2 LC, 2 FEderal

I wish I took a picture because my results are odd. The 5RP clustered in a 1” group dead center. The 2 LC printed a half moa group about 1.5” low and left. The 2 federal sprinter another 1/2 moa group about 1” below the RP.

It is to be expected in many guns (some more than others) for there to be a difference in POI between different brands of brass. There can even be a difference between virgin and once fired brass of the same brand. I think, but could be wrong, that case volume may be the least important factor and that friction and/or tension in the neck the most important one.

 

[SamT1]

It is to be expected in many guns (some more than others) for there to be a difference in POI between different brands of brass. There can even be a difference between virgin and once fired brass of the same brand. I think, but could be wrong, that case volume may be the least important factor and that friction and/or tension in the neck the most important one.

I wonder if a stiff crimp may equalize thatbsome. If I could get mixed brass to shoot moa 3 shot groups I’d be one happy man.

 

[SamT1]

Your sample sizes are too small no matter what distance you are shooting at. A sample size of 5 is nothing and 2 might as well be 1 and that’s even if you are using a rest that eliminates the human element.

Yea it’s a small sample. Shooting off a rest and bag so human error is real, but that’s the advantage of smaller samples I know I didn’t pull any shots in the sample. So there’s maybe 1/4 moa of variation in aim between them. There is a very obvious pattern to the grouping. If I shot 10 of each they may all run together due to my error and I’d have no specific data that tells me anything besides the mixed brass isn’t acceptable for accuracy. When in fact it looks like it’s capable of moa if segregated into the lots, but shoots between 2 and 3 moa as a whole.

 

[Slamfire]

I have shot lots of cleans out to 300 yards with mixed brass in my match AR15's. Beyond that, same head stamp brass. And this, because I think it makes a difference. The wind probably makes more of a difference, but at some level, you reload to your psychological level of happiness and ignore any evidence that contradicts your belief system.

 

[joneb]

I think using mixed head stamps is a waist time for the reloader. If you want to reload quality consistent loads. If not then mix it up, and ask here why you are having issues.

 

[92Slvr]

First post here and new to reloading so be nice please! But wow, I had not idea. I've been hoarding all sorts of brass...I guess I'll be converting a lot of my .223 to 762*25. Its funny though. I haven't noticed that sort of deviation across mixed factory loads?!?!?!? Maybe I'm just stupid. In any case, how do you guys decide which head stamp to use? I've got S&B, Greco, Federal, Winchester, a smidge of Lake City, some brass tulammo, and the list goes on...

 

[SamT1]

First post here and new to reloading so be nice please! But wow, I had not idea. I've been hoarding all sorts of brass...I guess I'll be converting a lot of my .223 to 762*25. Its funny though. I haven't noticed that sort of deviation across mixed factory loads?!?!?!? Maybe I'm just stupid. In any case, how do you guys decide which head stamp to use? I've got S&B, Greco, Federal, Winchester, a smidge of Lake City, some brass tulammo, and the list goes on...

All brass is not equal. So you’d preferably use the best you have. It’s all pretty descent so if you have a bunch of something it’s worth using.

I like lake city, Remington, ppu, hornady. Pmc, s&b, Winchester, and federal are ok. I haven’t loaded any wolf or Tula in rifles.

It just depends what you want it to shoot for accuracy. Mixed factory loads can have a crazy spread because your not just mixing brass, but in some cases everything can be way different. Case capacity, oal, powder, primer, bullet grain and style. You could be 6” or more of a poi shift at 100

 

[Walkalong]

It really depends on the rifle/shooter ability and the application.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I use most brass cases but I usually load one stamp at a time. Neck tension usually varies between brands and neck tension will effect group accuracy.

 

[Slamfire]

I've been hoarding all sorts of brass...I guess I'll be converting a lot of my .223 to 762*25. Its funny though. I haven't noticed that sort of deviation across mixed factory loads?!?!?!? Maybe I'm just stupid. In any case, how do you guys decide which head stamp to use? I've got S&B, Greco, Federal, Winchester, a smidge of Lake City, some brass tulammo, and the list goes on...

If you have the brass, use them all. I use zip lock bags and group them according to head stamp. I usually end up with a bag loaded with small lots of similar head stamp brass the quantities of which are onesie or twosies or tensies . This is my mixed head stamp brass. As long as you are staying away from maximum loads, mixed head stamp brass will be fine. Try to do a blind test, and see if mixed head stamp brass shoots as well.

You will notice differences in the way brass reacts if you expanding case necks. I do recommend annealing the case neck if you are expanding, I have been doing this with 30-06 expanded to 35 Whelen. I was losing a fair amount of brass due to case neck cracks, annealing reduced that rate significantly.

 

[ACES&8S]

Case capacity is the difference, I went thru the same thing, had to do the volume test myself with
primed cases & all trimmed to length. Well right now I can't remember without digging out my notes
as to what I filled them with.

 

[cw308]

I benchrest only , years back I thought all brass , bullets an powder lots had to be the same . Was I surprised. Brass is different thicknesses , flash holes could be larger , heads could be thicker . I separate my head stamps , weigh my cases . I try to keep each brand as close to exact as possible . Thicker brass has less volume , should lower charge by one grain an test . Using the same load with a thinner case will have room left in the case . I don't load hot , I use the thicker brass FC , HSM & ADI with IMR 4064 will fill the case to the bottom of the neck . If I were to use a charge at the high side of the chart , it would be like a compressed round . Just use the same load in your different cses an see where the charge differs in height in the case . Any change will make a change in POI . I'm not into hunting , but love benchrest shooting 50 degrees an above , can't take the cold I'm a big baby . Just test with every change . Hope I Helped , Chris

 

[hdwhit]

I sort my brass by headstamp (and then by year in the case of military brass), but this is done because different headstamps "feel" different, particularly when I am resizing. I want the "feel" of the press to be consistent from one round to the next, so I sort.

Virtually all of my shooting takes place at less than 200 yards and most around 100 yards. At those distances, I have never experienced different headstamps from the same caliber having any material impact on shot placement.

 

[Demi-human]

I haven't noticed that sort of deviation across mixed factory loads? In any case, how do you guys decide which head stamp to use? I've got S&B, Greco, Federal, Winchester, a smidge of Lake City, some brass tulammo, and the list goes on...

Use it all. Just group it first, so it will group on target.
Brass of a feather, flock together!

 

[cw308]

I'm pretty open minded , always looking to improve . Lord knows buy the amount of tools , dies and books on the shelf .

 

[entropy]

I've done it both ways; mixed and sorted. I've found under 200 yards it makes no difference that I can measure. I still load all my hunting loads with one headstamp (currently LC09, as I had some nice once fired in that), just superstitious, I guess.

 

[SamT1]

I've done it both ways; mixed and sorted. I've found under 200 yards it makes no difference that I can measure. I still load all my hunting loads with one headstamp (currently LC09, as I had some nice once fired in that), just superstitious, I guess.

You’ll never go wrong with LC. They have to put something in the alloy that keeps it malleable.

 

[Engineer1911]

This is my experience with mixed loaded ammo in .223. I have a "Janet Reno" (1992?) AR15 with a collapsible butt stock, 16" barrel, and handle rear sight, military front sight made by the original Bushmaster in Wyndham, ME. I obtained a quantity of range pickup 223 ammo with every current headstamp in the bucket. I wiped off the dirt, dropped each cartridge into a case cage, put the good stuff in a shooters box.

I have fired about 200 rounds through this rifle in the last 25 years, but never "ZEROED" the sights according to the manual. I fired about 20 rounds to get an X-ring zero on a 25 yard bullseye target at a 100 yard distance. I put up a new 25 yard target, loaded about 15 rounds, and started slowly shooting from a rest. At a 100 yards with iron sights, shooting 15 rounds of gaged mystery ammo with a front rest under the handguard and my left hand supporting the butt there were 2 shots outside the 10 ring. The X-ring center was gone from the target. I'll just say I was amazed. I spent the rest of the day trying to understand "match ammo", bolt action heavy barrel varmint rifle, and small groups.

My 15 rounds of ammo included Federal, R-P, Winchester, Speer commercial, PPU, Tula, LC, FC, WCC, and mystery headstamps in crimped primer military cases -- literally 1 of everything.

Some days you are the statue, and some days the pigeon.

For prairie dog ammo, I sort commercial vs crimped primers, do all my loading on a Dillon 550, and tumble in ground corn cob with a small splash of mineral spirits in Thumler's vibratory tumbler to remove case lube.

 

[Demi-human]

Some days you are the statue, and some days the pigeon.

Wait. Sometimes you get to be the Pigeon? Lucky...

When I first bought my Savage F/TR I used some L.C. brass and went through the whole shebang. After sizing, trimming and weight sorting two hundred cases, and bullets for them, I had twelve odd ducks. When I went out to try the "Match" loads I brought the ducks, too. Much to my chagrin, the odd ducks shot much better than the others!

It's nice to have beautiful Arrows, but it also helps to know how to shoot a bow!

I still do extensive brass prep. I have shrunk the groups much farther than the odd ducks, and enjoy every bit of it!


And if it's not yet been said,@Engineer1911, Welcome To The HighRoad!

 

[MarshallDodge]

What bullets were being used for this "test"?

 

[denton]

I've never tested the effect of mixed brass vs. sorted. But I do shoot only one brand of brass for each cartridge, and I keep my brass lots together so that all cases in a batch have been fired the same number of times.

For 223/5.56, I use Lake City because there is so much of it available locally for free.

The two factors that you have to watch out for are case capacity and neck tension.

Of the cases I have measured, Lake City and Federal have the highest capacity. I think it is no coincidence that the same company owns Federal and operates the Lake City plant under contract to the Army. You can very simply test water capacity by taking cases fired in the same rifle, weighing them empty, then weighing them full and taking the difference. That should give you an idea about capacity and consistency.

Neck tension probably boils down to:

*Hardness of neck brass, and

*Case trim length, but only if you are doing a roll crimp in your seating die. If you're not crimping, or if you're using the Lee collet die, then this is probably not a factor.

Hardness is controlled by keeping batches of brass together, and by annealing. I've fiddled with various annealing methods, including the candle method, my wife's gas stove, and induction. Now I've got a very slick little setup that isn't expensive, does a very uniform job, and is quick. Here's a video of how I do it:

(Had general anesthesia this morning... hope I'm making sense here.)