Model 19-4

Status
Not open for further replies.
F

friscolatchi

Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
330
Location
New York
Hi to all.
I have been looking for a 4" 357 for target shooting and woods carry. After reading the posts here at THR and searching the web, I deceided to go with the Model 19 instead of a new Ruger GP100. This is what I found for $400 - absolutely no holster wear. Picked it up today after a 3 day NICS hold. It's great to own a classic. Now I have to select the right loads as I understand that there may be problems with lighter hotter ammo. Lots of good info here. Thanks for your help and time.
PS - The holster is from Simply Rugged.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2930.jpg
    IMG_2930.jpg
    508.2 KB · Views: 100
  • IMG_2927.jpg
    IMG_2927.jpg
    542.6 KB · Views: 97
Nice looking gun, I bought a 4" 19-5 not too too long ago... real nice, but not as clean as yours. I might have even paid a little more than you, but not by much. Id say you got a pretty fair price on a classy gun. I bought mine at my LGS, once I went to a couple gun shows though I saw lots of nice looking .357s both Rugers and S&W around what I paid.

I have been shooting mostly 158gr .357s, sometimes .38 specials. I've shot some of the 125gr hollow point self defense ammo that we are supposed to avoid, but not much. No buffalo bore/double tap stuff. I've heard and read different things about what you can/can't use, I think most stuff is OK but your gun will probably hold up better using milder .357s or .38s. I've read that improper cleaning, esp around the forcing cone, was probably the real reason for a lot of the reputation these guns got.

I hope you enjoy your purchase!
 
Very nice! I also picked up my first .357 a couple of weeks back. I decided on a Model 66 (no dash) in similar condition to yours. I paid exactly the same. I plan on useing it for the same purposes you are and I also decided on a classic S&W over the the GP100. Not that there is anytning wrong with a GP100 and they are tough as nails but I always wanter an older S&W.

Enjoy it!

Later,

Person
 
That's a very nice gun and should serve you really well. Decent price, too. Good find. I, too, would have snatched that nice piece at that price.

I understand that there may be problems with lighter hotter ammo
Click to expand...

The only "problems" firmly documented were with 125gr. "Super Vel" commercial loads in the mid/late '70s. This was considered pretty extreme ammo then or now. The ammo was discontinued. The rumors remain. Shoot any commercial .357 ammo you'd like that is within SAAMI spec. There are no modern loads that have shown to cause failure. FWIW, I would just shoot any SAAMI spec. .357 load I wanted that was over 148gr (158gr. is most common).
 
OK! Here is the answer to your question. a lighter projectile is shorter than a heavy one; or in other words, from the meplat to the tail of a projectile the greater the weight ie 125 gr vs 158 gr the longer the length. Upon detonation the bullet leaves the cartridge jumps the gap between the cylinder and into the forcing cone of the barrel, engages the rifleings and goes on. With a shorter projectile the gases / plasma of the powder escapes a fraction of a second faster than the longer projectile. These gases are hot enough to get the forcing cone pretty hot. That's fact one. Fact two is that with the shorter projectile it takes off faster and the gun is on the rise in recoil and the projectile starting in a straight line continues on the straight line (this is one of Newton's Laws of Motion) and actually as it makes the b/c jump it in essecense strikes the bottom of the barrel or forcing cone edge. So it is actually hammering or peening the very hot edge of the barrel. Now, on a "K" frame Smith and Wesson the bottom of the barrel or forcing cone is thinner than at any other point of the barrel; it is that way so that the ejector rod has clearance to operate. "N" frames and "L" frames and even "J" frames are the same thinckness all away around. This is whay the "K" frame .357's were discontinued and the "L" frame replaced them. When all these facts are considered together one can understand that in some cases the forcing cone erodes and eventually can split rendering the gun, well inoperative. This condition can and has been known to occur rapidly and then again, never. It's like poker, you pays your money and takes your chances. Wisdon says to err on the side of caution and fire heavier projectiles. You do as you please, it's your gun. The "K" frame in my humble opinion is the best of the best and 4"er is the top of that heap with a well balanced, carriable, accurate gun.
 
Thanks for your input. I had read about the barrell problems before buying the gun. All the reviews about it were brilliant as Pistol Toter says. It's not my main carry. I am g oing to be carrying concealed here in NY on Conservation lands (DEC) for backpacking and reconietering for early bear season. I have a 629 6.5 but it's too large for summer carry (at least that is what I told my wife). I was wondering if I could run a few buffalobore hardcasts through it for the "Just in case" situation. I plan in carrying the 44mag and a 45-70 lever gun later this year. I also bought this revolver to help me bridge into the 44 mag. I'm not a good with the gun as I would like, despite reasonable practice. I missed 2 whitetails at 30 to 50 yds last year. I shoot with open sights. My problem is that the 629 was my first handgun (I purchased last July when I got the CC permit) and I started with the mag loads right away being really wet behind the ears and not knowing any better. I have since corrected most bad habits. I have shot over 2 thousand rounds of 22 pistol, 38 357 and 9mm 44sp and 44mags.
These forums, especially THR, are a great resource and I really appreciate the knowledge that I find within it. It has made me a better and more knowledgable handgun owner. After shooting the remarkable Model 19 today, and reading what Pistol toter and Oro have said, I feel really priviledged to own it. This one is a keeper.
 
I collect Super Vel Ammo. I have never seen a 125 gr Super Vel load in 357 Mag or 38 Spcl. The most common bullet encountered in 38/357 is their 110gr stuff. I have 110gr, 137gr, and 158gr in 357 Mag. All their stuff was REALLY HOT.
 
I understand that there may be problems with lighter hotter ammo
Click to expand...

I'm not sure where I copied this, but it's an excellent explanation re the forcing cone/top strap problem in K frame magnums.

The 125 grain bullets driven to maximum velocities used large charges of relatively slow-burning powders. Handloaders know the powder types as WW296 and H-110, among others. The combination of slow ball-type powders and the short bearing surface of the 125 bullets allows prolonged gas cutting of the forcing cone and top strap area, accelerating erosion and wear.

Borescope studies of rifle, machine gun, and auto cannon chamber throats shows a lizzard-skin-like texture due to this gas cutting damage, called "brinelling". The results of brinelling are fine microcracks that weaken the surface of the steel, and further promote erosion. In machine guns and auto cannons, barrel life is measured in terms of "useable accuracy", and round counts that determine this are based on group sizes at engagement ranges.

In the K-frame magnums, the forcing cone dimensions combined with the barrel shank dimensions results in a relatively thin shank at the 6 o'clock position, where a machine cut is made to clear the crane. This is usually where the forcing cone cracks. The L and N frames use much beefier barrel shanks and do not have this cut. S&W intended the K frame magnums to be "carried much and fired seldom" service arms, designed to fire .38 Specials indefinitely, with light to moderate use of .357 Magnums. You notice that S&W has discontinued production of K frame .357 magnums, no doubt due to product liability issues and a couple generations of K frame magnum experience.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the technical info. I'm going to try to print and save it. I called S&W today to order hogue grips for spares and to save the wood ones. They advised that I only shoot .38 sp from the gun. I'm going to take PT's advice and stick with the 357 mag 158's. I can't see owning a magnum and not shooting a partial diet of the load that it was designed for. Otherwise I'll start reloading. I know that the gun may be damaged but I will take my chances and liabilities. I feel that it will be fine if I stick to the 158's and sammi spec factory loads.
 
They advised that I only shoot .38 sp from the gun.
Click to expand...

I'm very surprised the factory would tell you to only shoot .38 Special in a Model 19. If that is the case, why don't they recall every one of them and either beef up the barrel or designate it ONLY for .38 Special?
 
tex, he said that there are no parts (barrells) for it. "If it breaks you can hang it up on the wall". I took it out today to shoot a box or so of 158's and it's bulls eye accurate, at 10 - 15 yds. At 25 yards my shooting has to improve. What do you think - are you supposed to gradually increase the distance as experience and accuracy increases? to me this seems resonable. Most of my educataion is self practice and information gandered on the WWW. thanks.
 
sw282 said:
The most common bullet encountered in 38/357 is their 110gr stuff.
Click to expand...

Grrr... that is what I meant to say. The 110gr loads. Thank you for correcting me.

texagun said:
I'm very surprised the factory would tell you to only shoot .38 Special in a Model 19. If that is the case, why don't they recall every one of them and either beef up the barrel or designate it ONLY for .38 Special?
Click to expand...

Exactly. The last person I know who called them to chat was told to shoot 158gr. and larger loads as that is what the gun was designed around. This was from S&W CS about two years ago.
 
What do the changes represent? What are the advantages for a pinned barrel and recessed cyl, if any, or is it just cost?
 
Nice gun there frisco....:D

My first handgun was a Model 19, probably a -4, I got it in the early 80's anyway. The only thing I didn't like at the time was the grooved trigger which hurt my finger during D/A firing. That was enough of an excuse for me to trade it off for something else. I sort of regret it now, since it was my first handgun. :banghead:

I replaced it not too long ago with a near pristine 19-4, in bright nickle. Beautiful gun. I've only shot it a couple of dozen rounds, with .38's. I'll probably never shoot it with .357's.

006.gif
 
Last edited:
I noticed your new mod. 19 has the non-standard target hammer and target trigger. My 19-4 just has the standard ones. I like the combo.
 
Hi beautiful gun. :cool: I'm sure if the above poster was refering to my piece or yours. Not knowing the reason behind the different trigger configurations. I'm assuming that a groved trigger and hammer bob are for combat purposes. Please advise. Thanks Frisco :)
 
I'm assuming that a groved trigger and hammer bob are for combat purposes. Please advise.
Click to expand...

I don't know what he's referring to either, but none of the pictured guns have anything "non-standard." There were multiple options on these so you could get them a variety of ways.

It appears Friscolatchi's gun has a .500" target hammer and .400" target trigger. Combined with the target stocks, this is the classic "Three T's" arrangement many shipped with, especially in the later days.

CajunBass' picture isn't as clear to me, but it looks like he has the .375" semi target hammer and a .265" service trigger. This covers all the different ones you could get except the .312" smooth combat trigger. Here's a pic of a 19 with that one. The trigger is a bit of obscured by the 12 ga. prop rod but you can see the curved arm of the trigger is wider than the body as it goes on the gun, but not as wide as friscolatchi's:

IMGP3117.jpg
 
I've ordered a forged part for an old K-frame directly from S&W in the last year. They still have parts.
And if they don't, Numrich or Jack First might. If you can avoid cracking the forcing cone, I wouldn't worry about much beyond that.

Lovely gun.

-Daizee
 
To all - thanks for the information. I have learned lots through THR. I always keep an eye opened for Oro and ArmedBear's posts. Hey guys - how long have you been into this stuff? I"m going to enjoy that gun, shooting what's recommended. Shooting 158's in 357 is pretty reasonable. Thanks again.
 
I've been collecting S&W for 15 years and consider myself a student, a padawan if you please. There is plainly more to learn and memorize than is feasible. Some of these guys here on THR and better yet the S&W forum have been collecting S&W's for many times my tenure. I am a fellow moving into the autumn of life and have been involved with some sort of shooting, hunting and gun collection for right close to 50 years. If you find yourself drawn to S&W's buy you a copy of the Standard Catalog fo Smith & Wesson by Nahass & Suprica. It's not "all inclusive" but is probably the best reference book on the subject. It will cost you in the neighborhood of $30. There are several other excellent texts on S&W"s and as you go alnog you maybe interested in acquiring them also.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
  • Locked
S&W model 19 4" for CCW?
2
Replies
26
Views
9K
BluesBear
B
S
  • Locked
S&W Model 19-4 question
Replies
3
Views
388
glassman
glassman
AZAndy
  • Locked
The Model 19 returns
2
Replies
42
Views
4K
NIGHTLORD40K
NIGHTLORD40K
S
  • Locked
S&W Model 19-4 price check
Replies
12
Views
1K
Bo
Bo
P
  • Locked
Smith & Wesson Model 13-4
Replies
11
Views
3K
RON in PA
R
Back
Top