Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Model 70 or Model 7?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Skook, Dec 17, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Skook

    Skook Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    Hello,

    I am starting to ponder what rifle I will buy for my son as his first "deer rifle". From the research I have been doing, I believe I have narrowed the choice of calibers down to either a .260 Rem. or a 7mm-08. For some reason, I seemed to have narrowed down the rifle to either a Model 7 or a "new" Model 70 Featherweight.

    The Model 7 is available in both calibers and the Model 70 Featherweight is available only in 7mm-08. According to the MSRPs listed on their respective websites, it looks like the Model 70 will be a bit less expensive, but I haven't begun to look at actual street prices.

    I'll probably make this a birthday or Christmas gift, and I am hoping that it will be a rifle that my son will use for a long time to come.

    Any suggestions, especially from those who have personal experience with these rifles, are appreciated.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,129
    Location:
    never never land...never land here!
    Model 70 Winchester in 7mm-08.

    The Model 7 is way, way too costly for what your going to be getting, also the accuracy is not going to be nearly as good as the Featherweight from what I have heard for the past several years from customers who have bought the Model 7.

    Funny, I have two Model 7's and one is a tack driver, the other just wont shoot no matter what I feed it. But is accurate enough for deer work.

    Personally, the deciding factor would be the cost of the unit and the caliber I desired.

    There is nothing wrong with the 260, I feel the 7mm-08 is a little more hearty for deer work. Forget all the hype about versatility, chances are you'll settle on one load, sight in for that, and that will be it.

    The Remingtons just cost way too much! Even dealer pricing is scary high! Hard to make a buck on a rifle that costs more than its worth before you mark it up for retail sale!
     
  3. shaggy430

    shaggy430 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2008
    Messages:
    922
    I have both model rifles and have taken lots of deer with both. Both are excellent rifles. Here's my thoughts:

    -Model 7 would be better when he is younger. Lighter, shorter length of pull (larger than a youth model, but not quite a full size.)
    -Model 70 would be better when he gets older because it has a full size stock.
    -I'd go with the 7mm-08 over the .260.
    -When I am still hunting woods or using a climbing treestand I grab the Model 7.
    -When I am planning to hunt a blind or sit over an open area I grab a Model 70.

    Both are excellent rifles, but I tend to like the Model 70 action and 3 position safety better. I tend to like the way the Model 7 handles, however.
     
  4. Skook

    Skook Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    Thanks. A few months ago, I saw a segment on American Rifleman TV regarding FN's entry into the auto pistol market. The FN factory guy made it a point to say that the FN pistol's workmanship and materials really warrant a much higher price (comparable to Sig prices) than what they are selling them for, but because they are trying to build a following for their new pistols, they are selling them at a lower price.

    I saw a similar program recently where they toured the FN plant and showed the new Model 70 manufacturing operation. The process, especially the state-of-the-art barrel making machinery, looked fairly impressive. I didn't hear the factory rep make a similar argument regarding the Model 70 prices, but I remember thinking that maybe they would adopt the same philosophy with respect to the rifle's price.

    Granted, I know their job is to sell guns, and they are not going to come on TV and say that their guns are overpriced, but their point sort of made sense to me at the time. Perhaps it's wishful thinking on my part, but I'm sort of hoping that the Model 70 is equal to the Model 7 as far as quality goes, yet can be had at a significantly lower price.

    Maybe the money that I save will be enough to purchase a relatively decent scope.
     
  5. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,171
    The Model 70 over a Model 7 any day of the week, at the same price, but they're not even the same price. The $100 that Remington wants for the CDL over the Featherweight is laughable; it should be the other way around, at the least -- and I still wouldn't even consider the Remington, myself.

    The only reason to get the Model 7 is that it's available in a youth model.

    If you want a youth model, this one is at least as good as a Remington, with a bolt-lock safety, for a better price, and it has an adaptable stock for a growing kid. http://www.weatherby.com/product/rifles/vanguard/syntheticyouth

    (Remingtons don't have bolt locks. I wouldn't have a hunting rifle without one, to say nothing of an overpriced hunting rifle.)

    When he reaches his full height, you can celebrate with a Model 70.:D
     
  6. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,393
    Location:
    Upper East Tennessee
    I hate to say it...I've been a LOYAL Remington customer for a loooong time. They used to be the best...used to be.

    Quality control has went south, offerings (production models available) have went even further south, triangle barrels :barf:, cheap...just plain cheap made.

    Get the Model 70 and don't look back.
     
  7. bpl

    bpl Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    927
    Location:
    PA
    CDNN has M70 short action youth stocks for $69.99. You could get the M70 Featherweight, put the youth stock on for a few years, then switch back when he's bigger.
     
  8. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,129
    Location:
    never never land...never land here!
    The model 70 is definitely equal to and is better in quality than the model 7.

    I am not a model 70 fan, nor a Winchester fan, but I call it like it is, and the above is true, as far as the whole rifle, stock is concerned.

    Not knowing the stature of your son, I assumed that since you were considering the Model 70 at all, that he is big enough to handle it utilizing the proper rifle hold, cheek weld et cetra.

    If your son is not now, or will not be in the near future, big enough to correctly use the full size stock of the Model 70, then by all means get the Model 7.

    Like I said, the Model 7 is not a bad rifle, but compared to the Model 70, it is not as good and the price Remington has put on this rifle is extremely high as compared to its worth.
     
  9. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,129
    Location:
    never never land...never land here!
    It would be better for you to use the Model 7 and your son not develop any wrong shooting habits because of the ill fit of the rifle, than to get a Model 70 and have your son have to un-learn, or worse yet, continue bad shooting habits.
     
  10. Big_E

    Big_E Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    935
    Location:
    Boise, ID
    Model 70 by a longshot.

    I handled the new FN ones at my local funstore and just the feel of it was far superior to my 700
     
  11. Skook

    Skook Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    My son will be 11 years old in about two months. He is probably about average height, compared with his classmates, but he looks as though we only feed him once or twice per week. I was thinking about getting him a rifle for his upcoming birthday, but I may wait until next Christmas to see if he'll have a growth spurt.

    Because he is so thin, I have the Remingtom "managed recoil" loads in mind for the 7mm-08. I'm reluctant to spend a lot of money on a youth model rifle because, if he is anything like me, he'll go from being less than 5'0" tall at the age of twelve to 6'0" tall by the age of 15 or 16.
     
  12. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,129
    Location:
    never never land...never land here!
    Sounds like you are on the right track, my daughter was thin as a rail and pretty much stayed that way, I bought her a Model 7, back in the day when the Model 7's were of any count, in 7mm-08.

    She began her shooting carer with pellet guns at age 4 and by 6 I had gotten her a 22LR bolt action. At 12 she bagged her first deer with the 7mm-08 and has used it ever since.

    She uses the Horandy Light Magnum ammo with the 139gr. BTSP.

    I would not worry about recoil, it is an expected part of shooting, teach that.
    Learn to handle the recoil correctly, and it's not bad at all.

    You may not want to handicap yourself with the Remington Managed recoil stuff, like I say, the 7mm-08 ain't a kicker. If my skinny little 12 year old daughter put up with it.....
     
  13. Skook

    Skook Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    I know a lot of kids start off with a .243 as their first deer rifle. I'd be curious to compare the ballistics, especially energy, of the 7mm-08 managed recoild loads with standard factory .243 loads. I was thinking that they would be an option for the first year or two.
     
  14. PT1911

    PT1911 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,139
    Location:
    alabama
    a friend of mine has a model 7 in .260.. compact little rifle with great ballistics and enough pop to know you let one fly... I would definitely recommend it over the model 70 for what you mentioned.
     
  15. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,129
    Location:
    never never land...never land here!
    Those 'Managed Recoil' loads work great, so I've been told.

    Have you looked at the Ruger compact and youth rifles yet?
     
  16. Skook

    Skook Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    I didn't give much thought to the Ruger. For as long as I remember, I have always been under the impression that their triggers are terrible and their accuracy is only so-so.

    Is/was this the case, or is this one of those old rumors that aren't deserved but won't go away?

    How hard would it be to change the stock to a youth model? I'm no gunsmith, and so I don't know how difficult it would be. I'd also be concerned that I would never get it back together the way it came from the factory, and that accuracy would be affected.
     
  17. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2006
    Messages:
    8,374
    Location:
    Texas, baby!
    the model 7, in both 243, and 7.08 , are maybe two of the best ammo/rifle combos going, for kids or adults who like a short rifle. Just fabulous really, the mod 7 is proly the top rated for the small rifle/kids rifle right now. But that was all for older mod 7's, I have no idea what is going on now
    with them.
    So I would def check out the winny 70, FN does not make a crap product.
    Only thing that I would maybe like better would be a mossberg superbantam, with add on, super soft recoil buttpad/spacers to the back.
     
  18. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,129
    Location:
    never never land...never land here!
    The Rugers are pretty good iron nowadays.

    I know what you mean concerning the bad reputation Ruger has. But Ruger has indeed cleaned up their act and are producing good rifles now...the barrels are made by Ruger(most of them)and the stocks have been improved.

    As for swamping stocks, no biggie, check for clearance problems, torque the action screws to the correct amount of torque and go shootin'.

    I just gave a stock to a friend of mine so he could swap from the youth to the adult length stock on a Model 7.
    He went from a wood youth stock to a full size camo synthetic stock.

    The Model 7 is not bedded, no blocks, liners, wedges or anything....drop the action into the stock and tighten the action bolts...done!

    You can get an extra stock fairly cheap and have it on hand...right now Numrich Arms is selling a replacement Model 7 stock, black synthetic.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2009
  19. Brian Williams

    Brian Williams Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,833
    Location:
    Kampong Cham, Cambodia
    I had both in 7mm-08, I still have the Winchester, Mine is a Compact Classic model. I have a Leupold 3x9 compact scope on it that I wish I had bought the 2x7 compact instead.
     
  20. Russ Jackson

    Russ Jackson member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    564
  21. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,171
    Russ-

    Not even close. However, kids grow up fast. I wouldn't spend too much on a youth-specific rifle, any more than I'd buy a kid an Armani suit to go to a wedding when he's in the middle of a growth spurt.:)

    Do take a look at the Weatherby Youth model I linked to, above. Not too expensive, accurate, durable, well-made, and adaptable to a growing kid.
     
  22. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,129
    Location:
    never never land...never land here!
    You know AB...I totally forgot about the Vanguard Youth...
    This is the one-
    Cost is great, accurate enough and the stock is one of the things that gets good comments from customers that pick it up and shoulder it.
     
  23. Skook

    Skook Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    If I spent about $500 on the Vanguard youth, what do you think I could get out of it in a few years if I decided to sell/trade it?
     
  24. berettashotgun

    berettashotgun Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,149
    Both of my boys started with a handi in 243.
    I worked the triggers, put a Leupold on them.
    Those suckers had a real heavy barrel, large surface pad- thick and ventilated - and were the "youth" model.
    I picked the 243 because of recoil alone; I reload quite a few calibers and love to get range time with a 24-26" barreled 243. It is a pleasure to shoot.
    Using 75 gr Hornady hollow points and an adult charge of powder still resulted in very low perceived recoil by both of the little guys.
    They were both easy 2moa at 250 yards, which is incredibly accurate when converted to minute -of-deer.
    I believe the lowest recoil coupled with the highest velocity gives the younger shooter an advantage. 75gr bullets are a minimum self imposed requirement.
    They both neck shot their first 2 deer -each,
    Re: 70 vs. 7..... the way this is stacking out - I'm ALL ABOUT PROPER FIT.
    I'd personally pick the 70 for me, but the youth 7 for a kid.
     
  25. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,171
    Skook- Weatherby does make an adult stock to fit that barreled action: http://www.weatherby.com/product/rifles/vanguard/carbine So does Hogue.

    You wouldn't HAVE to sell if, if you wanted a basic 20" bolt gun for something. It's a quality "forever" bolt action, very similar in design to a 700 (even uses the same scope bases), not something like a Remington 770 or even the XS7. I have a Vanguard Sporter (walnut 24" .30-06 version of the same rifle design) and I don't plan to sell it, even though I just bought another .30-06 that I plan to "replace" it with as a primary hunting gun. The Vanguard is a pretty decent rifle, accurate, solid and well-built, not some semi-disposable POS like some others in the lower price ranges.

    As far as resale value of a youth gun, that would depend on whether people still have children, or just hole up in their bomb shelters with their stash of gold bars...:)
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2009
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page