berettashotgun
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- Joined
- May 8, 2005
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- 1,149
**or just hole up in their bomb shelters with their stash of gold bars...**
ArmedBear is always thinkin.....
good one.
ArmedBear is always thinkin.....
good one.
Model 70 or Model 7?
- Thread starter Skook
- Start date
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Uncle Mike
Member
$250 to $350.
But you could always swap the stock for a full sized stock...and keep truckin'.
Clipper
Member
There's another short, light rifle to consider that's available in both calibers...The Ruger M-77 compact. But if you've already researched and discarded the Ruger, I'd go with the M-70 in a heartbeat.
I'm all ears if there is a good case to be made for the Ruger, or any other rifle such as the Weatherby Vanguard.
I suspect that any modern rifle is more than serviceable for a 12 year-old boy's first deer rifle. I still have the rifle my dad gave me nearly 35 years ago. It's a pre-64 Model 70 in .270 Win. I'm hoping that my son will keep and appreciate this rifle like I have mine over the years.
Edit: I just checked out Ruger's website. Wouldn't I be sacrificing a lot of performance with a 16.5" barrel? I live in PA where whitetails are the number one game in town. However, we have the opportunity to hunt fairly large black bears (bear in the 600+ lb. range are taken annually). Believe it or not, we also have a chance at elk, but getting a tag is like hitting the lottery, literally.
Although, I guess I would have a good excuse to buy another rifle if he were lucky enough to draw an elk tag
I suspect that any modern rifle is more than serviceable for a 12 year-old boy's first deer rifle. I still have the rifle my dad gave me nearly 35 years ago. It's a pre-64 Model 70 in .270 Win. I'm hoping that my son will keep and appreciate this rifle like I have mine over the years.
Edit: I just checked out Ruger's website. Wouldn't I be sacrificing a lot of performance with a 16.5" barrel? I live in PA where whitetails are the number one game in town. However, we have the opportunity to hunt fairly large black bears (bear in the 600+ lb. range are taken annually). Believe it or not, we also have a chance at elk, but getting a tag is like hitting the lottery, literally.
Although, I guess I would have a good excuse to buy another rifle if he were lucky enough to draw an elk tag
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Maverick223
Member
My choice would be a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight chambered in 7mm-08 (only because they refuse to offer the .260Rem.), but I'm not a kid...and I don't think it would be ideal for a 12YO boy, and would probably go with the Ruger M-77 Compact chambered in .260Rem for that purpose. The .260Rem closely approximates the power of the 6.5x55Swede which those crazy Europeans use for small game such as brown bear and moose. So I think it should be fine for black bear or elk even with the short barrel.
One of my main concerns is the 12 year-old boy dilema. By the time hunting season rolls around that year, he will be 12 1/2. I can really envision him going from less than 5' tall to perhaps nearly a foot taller in a year or two after that. Money is an object, and so I can't really afford to buy a new rifle every few years or lose a few hundred $ on a trade.
The Ruger Hawkeye Compact really has me intrigued. The 12.5" length of pull is considerably less than the Model 70. Thanks to those who brought it to my attention.
The Ruger Hawkeye Compact really has me intrigued. The 12.5" length of pull is considerably less than the Model 70. Thanks to those who brought it to my attention.
Clipper
Member
BTW, I'm 6'2", and the longest LOP rifle I own is 14". I prefer 13, and have one with 12" LOP. With a light recoiling caliber like .243, .257Bob or .260rem, there's really no problem, especially since you're generally adding some thickness of cold weather wear. The short barrel will maybe cost a couple hundred FPS, but I guarantee the deer or bear won't notice a thing...
Sure wish my dad would have bought me either one of the guns you are contemplating for your son. He is lucky to have you for his father.
I have a Remington 700 BDL that I purchased new about 25 years ago. I have a Winchester Featherweight that I purchased 3 years ago. I realize there is a difference between the 700 and the 7, but the action is still the same. The Winchester was produced in New Haven prior to it being shut down. I have read many disparaging remarks about the poor quality of these rifles. From my experience with my M70, I would take it over 10 M700s any day of the week. I don't think Remington ever even envisioned an action as silky smooth as the Winchester. No comparison. And the ones being produce by FN are even reported to be good!!!!
One more possibility to think about. Either gun could be purchased, and the stock shortened to fit him. A new stock could then be purchased later to "restore" the gun back to a full size. I just purchased a brand new factory stock for my M70 from www.Hoosiergunworks.com for $110. Pretty cheap for a factory walnut Featherweight stock.
I have a Remington 700 BDL that I purchased new about 25 years ago. I have a Winchester Featherweight that I purchased 3 years ago. I realize there is a difference between the 700 and the 7, but the action is still the same. The Winchester was produced in New Haven prior to it being shut down. I have read many disparaging remarks about the poor quality of these rifles. From my experience with my M70, I would take it over 10 M700s any day of the week. I don't think Remington ever even envisioned an action as silky smooth as the Winchester. No comparison. And the ones being produce by FN are even reported to be good!!!!
One more possibility to think about. Either gun could be purchased, and the stock shortened to fit him. A new stock could then be purchased later to "restore" the gun back to a full size. I just purchased a brand new factory stock for my M70 from www.Hoosiergunworks.com for $110. Pretty cheap for a factory walnut Featherweight stock.
I wouldn't buy a rifle with a 16.5 inch barrel for big game hunting. 20" minimum, in my opinion. Too much velocity loss. Might as well just get a 30-30!
FWIW, I have a M7 youth in 7mm-08. We killed two deer with it this year with managed recoil loads. They work great. Its like shooting a 30-30 energy with less recoil and flatter trajectory. Its a nice little rifle, but not as nice as a new M70. I bought it for a small 11yr old to use, who also will likely be a relatively small adult, based on his adult family members. So, he will likely be able to use it for a long time, hence the 7mm-08 over the 243. 7mm-08 is much better for black bear, elk, etc. If I were planning to buy a rifle now for a child who will likely be tall, and grow very soon, I'd probably buy an adult rifle and drop it into a youth stock. I went to Cabelas and several other gun stores several months back and fondled lots of rifles, primarily ss/synthetic, but also blued/walnut, and the M70 was clearly heads and shoulders above the rest IMO. Its the nicest rifle out there in that price range, hands down.
FWIW, I have a M7 youth in 7mm-08. We killed two deer with it this year with managed recoil loads. They work great. Its like shooting a 30-30 energy with less recoil and flatter trajectory. Its a nice little rifle, but not as nice as a new M70. I bought it for a small 11yr old to use, who also will likely be a relatively small adult, based on his adult family members. So, he will likely be able to use it for a long time, hence the 7mm-08 over the 243. 7mm-08 is much better for black bear, elk, etc. If I were planning to buy a rifle now for a child who will likely be tall, and grow very soon, I'd probably buy an adult rifle and drop it into a youth stock. I went to Cabelas and several other gun stores several months back and fondled lots of rifles, primarily ss/synthetic, but also blued/walnut, and the M70 was clearly heads and shoulders above the rest IMO. Its the nicest rifle out there in that price range, hands down.
Uncle Mike
Member
I'd stay away from that stubby 16.5" bbl. Ruger.
Get the Model 7 in 7mm-08.... after several years swap the stock, for an additional $60 or so dollars and hunt forever more with it after that....pretty simple!
The Vanguard will save you money now, but obtaining a Full size stock may be difficult!
I looked for extra stocks for the vanguard....not too hard, but no luck, I was going to offer the price, but...
Get the Model 7 in 7mm-08.... after several years swap the stock, for an additional $60 or so dollars and hunt forever more with it after that....pretty simple!
The Vanguard will save you money now, but obtaining a Full size stock may be difficult!
I looked for extra stocks for the vanguard....not too hard, but no luck, I was going to offer the price, but...
Maverick223
Member
That is really short, and honestly I originally thought it was an 18" bbl, which would have been more to my liking for that cartridge (or rather case size).
shaggy430
Member
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2008
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- 950
Or keep it. I've got my youth rifle from 20+ years ago and let me tell you, it is still an excellent coyote and tree stand rifle. Just set the scope forward an inch or two. I've killed truckloads of deer with it when I was a kid. Also, my wife and I are trying for a kid and you can bet that that rifle will be with he/she when she goes deer hunting the first time.
My point is- don't look at a youth rifle as something your kid will grow out of. Look at it as something he will pass down to his children. It will give you an excuse to buy yourself a new rifle when you pass one of your full size rifles down to him when he is big enough for an adult rifle.
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I know it's tough to beat weatherbys new $399 rifle with a guarantee of 1-1/2 moa accuracy, but I don't think you can go wrong with a Model 70. Get him a top of the line hunting rifle (Model 70) in featherweight. Let me tell you if you decide to sell the rifle down the road (which I highly doubt) you will get more money back than 90 percent of the hunting rifles out there. I haven't come across one owner of a m70 that doesn't love it. They are just good quality rifles...simple.
You can also buy a rifle with both stocks already included:
http://legacysports.com/products/howa/specs/specs_youth2n1.html
Aside: maybe I'm old-school, but in my world, 11-year-olds don't get top-of-the-line, paid for by dear old Dad. They get something they can drop, rust, etc., so they can learn. Everyone learns something the hard way. A new Model 70 or higher-priced rifle is for someone who has paid his dues, at least to some extent.
Also, if you are thinking about needing to sell the gun to get the money back in a few years, get the kid something really cheap. There's no, zero, nada guarantee that a rifle used for field practice and hunting by a child will be in decent condition when you expect to sell it.
http://legacysports.com/products/howa/specs/specs_youth2n1.html
Aside: maybe I'm old-school, but in my world, 11-year-olds don't get top-of-the-line, paid for by dear old Dad. They get something they can drop, rust, etc., so they can learn. Everyone learns something the hard way. A new Model 70 or higher-priced rifle is for someone who has paid his dues, at least to some extent.
Also, if you are thinking about needing to sell the gun to get the money back in a few years, get the kid something really cheap. There's no, zero, nada guarantee that a rifle used for field practice and hunting by a child will be in decent condition when you expect to sell it.
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