Modern pistol for 7.62X25 Needed

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tinygnat219

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A conversation with Zespectre and the poll on the TT33 and the CZ-52 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=262798) got me thinking. Why hasn't any modern company come up with a polymer pistol for this round? One would think IPSC competitors would be jumping all over this.

The standard round is something like 85 grains with a velocity of 1500fps. Use the typical Power factor formulat of Grains * Velocity / 1000 and you have a power factor of 127.5 for your typical Tokarev round. Granted, it's a "minor" power factor, but it's doable.

Modern JHP ammo can also be used and this would make an excellent Self-Defense round.

Asbestos Underwear is on. Please give me your thoughts.
 
7.62x25 is better than alot of the newer stuff that's out.

I would buy a modern handgun with this chambering.
 
The 7.62 Tokarev is nothing more than a Russian variation of the 7.63 Mauser cartridge.
The cartridges attributes were speed and penetration.
Today the Russians produce a 9mm Parabellum cartridge that way outdoes the capabilities of this old round.
The Belgians developed the 5.7mm personal defense cartridge which is really nothing more than a 5.7 Johnson spitfire cartridge with a shorter case and a redesigned bullet.
The Chinese followed suit with a 5.6mm ripoff of the Belgian design and all these rounds will outperform the old Mauser cartridge.

As much as I enjoy shooting firearms chambered for this old cartridge I am well aware that, by all standards, the old Mauser/Tokarev cartridge is effectively obsolete.
Then again who knows, maybe in a fit of inspiration, demand, greed, or genius, somebody may offer a modern pistol design chambered for this cartridge and marketed on American soil.

After all, we made several Italian gunmakers wealthy beyond their dreams by insisting on affordable firearms chambered in calibers like, .44/40-.45 Colt-and .32/20.,,,,,

Dream big and something may come along someday.
 
Heh, well thanks to TinyGnat you already know where I stand.

I really believe that a 7.62x25 out of a gun designed strongly enough to handle Romanian or Czech type of loads would kick some serious posterior!

FMJ from this round is an astounding penetrator. (See The Box O' Truth, helmet test) I'll be honest, if I were to suddenly find out that the bad guys were commonly wearing soft body armor I'd be carrying the CZ-52 in a flash!

I understand that JHP rounds are available. What I'd love to see is an experimental Cor-Bon powRball round designed for this caliber/load. I think it would be extremely interesting to see how it behaved.
 
7.62 x 25

I agree with ZeSpector. I have a friend who used the CZ 52 as his truck gun, knowing it will penetrate the door from either side.

The ammo has stood the test of time with the '96 Mauser, T-33, PPSH 41, and
CZ 52

I reload, and even my cast bullet loads with 113 gr bullet at 1252 fps has an excellent kinetic energy promise. The surplus ammo I have is even hotter

If there were a more reliable, and properly safed, CZ-52-type gun out there I'd use it(outside)

Inside, I prefer a 12 ga pump or a a 1911

yodar
 
I witnessed a demo of the penetrating power of the 7.62x25 and was quite impressed. Obsolete? Yeah, whatever! Tell that to the car door it goes through!
 
The main downfall this formitable round has against it to be used in a new modern designed firearm is that it is Soviet and ex-Communist.
 
The main problem is that the round is for a full sized pistol, and it's under .355inches in diameter. Americans prefer bigger calibers whenever humanly possible. The Five-Seven probably wouldn't be popular in the least if the Brady's hadn't gone berserk over it.

The 7.62x25 Tok round is the poor man's 5.7x28, in essence. Enough velocity and bullet weight to label it a magnum - especially with the penetration it's got. 8mm Magnum, you could call it. You need a doublestack in that caliber.
 
Car doors

There's way too much stuff inside a car door for those tests to be meaningful. A shot just a couple inches away from the first with the exact same round can behave quite differently. There are no sure bets when shooting car doors with handguns.
 
The 7.62x25mm operates at a higher velocity and pressure than the mauser round. It's been penetrating metal and kicking ass way before the 5.7 round popped it's head up. Poor man's 5.7mm? Hardly. I see the 5.7 as more obsolete than the 7.62.25. It really wasn't needed when we already had a high velocity high penetrating pistol and subgun round.

They should have chambered the P90 in 7.62x25.
 
Any of you guys ever wonder why the Soviets chose a larger bullet moving at a slower velocity when they replaced the 7.62 Tokarev and why they and the Czechs chambered that larger slower cartridge in machine pistol class weapons along with their service handguns?
 
One problem is it would have to be a whole new gun, or at least new magazines for an existing gun. I just tried to put a 7.62x25 round in a G20 10mm mag and it is too long. A G20 shooting it sure would be cool but evidently that isnt going to happen. If we could just find some surplus 9x25 Dillon!!
 
I thought I saw a pic of a 7.62x25 sabot round recently. This would be a serious screamer if it's real.
 
Having been involved in a couple pistol maker's internal decision making, and having proposed this caliber as a chambering, I can tell you the idea makes a pretty loud thud when it hits the table.

:(

Slightly harder to sell than 10mm or .38 Super, but not much. I wish gun makers would appreciate that sometimes pandering to a niche market gives them ownership of the niche and the chance to develop a cult following that will purchase any gun they sell in that niche. Tanfoglio, Glock, and DW get it when it comes to 10mm. They can sell all the guns they make in those calibers, just cannot make or expect to sell as many as they do in say 9mm or 45.

Of course the engineering issues of 7.62x25 cannot be ignored. The cartridge is too long to fit in any existing design I am aware of, so it is not a simple matter of rechambering and producing a new magazine. That alone probably dooms this idea. I will keep floating it when asked. In fairness I have had positive responses about the caliber, just not about the practicality of redesigning for it or the profit potential.

John
 
I'd buy a Glock in this caliber.

And I'd buy a whole bunch of 31 round mags too!

The reason it got bumped for the 9mm was because it was a FMJ. I'd carry a solid copper JHP for defense, with a backup mag of FMJ in my car. I bet the solid coppers (like the DPX) would penetrate a car door just like a FMJ.
 
Any of you guys ever wonder why the Soviets chose a larger bullet moving at a slower velocity when they replaced the 7.62 Tokarev and why they and the Czechs chambered that larger slower cartridge in machine pistol class weapons along with their service handguns?
Click to expand...

Onmillo- The Soviets made lots of mistakes. That's why we won the Cold War, and they don't exist any more. :neener:

Personally, I'd love to see the 7.62X25 in a modern pistol, but i think, as mentioned above, that the length of the round might be a problem in a semi.

Now what if we could find a way to stick it in a K-frame sized revolver.... hrm....ok time to cross post in the revolver section.
 
get a glock g20

and a barsto 9X25 barrel

McNett double tap 9X25 ammo

115 grains at 1700 or so....

7.62X25mm Tok very nice too.
 
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