Money is here: RCBS Pro 2000, Dillion 550B, Dillion 650

[Eb1]

I have been doing more research. Some say that the powders I use like Unique and IMR 4227 will work pretty good.
I have been wanting to try some Ramshot powder, and I looked it up. I can use True Blue for 9mm, .44 SPC Jacketed and Lead, Medium Loads of .44 Mag. Jacketed and Lead.
TAC for .223 and .30-30
Magnum for .25-06

I also have a few pounds of BLC-2, H335 and 748.

What I will probably do is try to sell my unopened H4895 at a gun show to buy the Ramshot powder, but I will try to see how the Dillion press loads first. Funny thing is, what I have read is that people with Dillions using stick powders are putting RCBS powder chargers on their presses. Well the Pro 2000 comes with that powder charger. What a coincidence. Or is it?

 

[GW Staar]

Thanks for the input. I called Brian Enos, and had a conversation with him. It seems that all my H4895 and IMR 4227 loads are going bye-bye if I buy a Dillion. He said the powder would not load correctly into the .223, but might in the .44 Mag.
So it looks like I will be reworking my loads. Another option is to get a cheap single stage, and finish out the 3 lbs of 4227 and 6 lbs of 4895. I doubt Unique loads worth a flip on the Dillion either. Which I use a ton of. Also there goes the IMR 4350 and I haven't even opened the RL19 and RL22.

Looks like I am going to loos about $200 plus dollars in components just moving to a progressive, and then another $200 plus in working up loads to replace the loads I already have. GEEZ!!!

Now I am thinking of getting the RL550 with a RCBS Chargmaster to finish out the components I have, and then buying the parts to upgrade the RL550 to a 550B. I can't win for loosing.

Since I've been loading with my progressive, I've loaded a couple of pounds of Unique for my .45 ACP and .40 S&W. I don't have a problem at all. The loads are just as accurate as my Gold Dot ammo. I have preferred Unique over other powders for my .45's for many years...you know, old dog, not so many new tricks. But yes, I load other pistol powders as well.

I don't use H4895, but I do exclusively use IMR4895 for my .308 AR 10 ammo loaded viva the Uniflow and Pro 2000. For .223 I use TAC and Varget. The Uniflow is more forgiving when using stick and flake powder than Dillon's P.M. I use a baffle in the hopper, and I wax the inside of the hopper and casting. I does plenty well at uniformity.

That said, I wouldn't want to be without my single stage Rock Chucker. In the first place, I prefer to deprime and size all my rifle cases on the R.C., then do the case prep operations off press. For rifle the Pro 2000 is used to prime, charge, seat, and crimp (if I want). I haven't noticed any limitations or incompatibilities, between powder and progressive.....yet.

The Rock Chucker is also used for calibers I don't shoot much of...for which I haven't as yet set up die heads on the Pro2K.

 

[Eb1]

GW Star,

You are saying you use both the Dillion and the Pro 2000, or the Uniflow on your Dillion?

 

[kingmt]

If you have the Lee Auto Disk just use it on the new press. I have used it, the LNL, & Inflow. The Lee is second to none of them.

 

[Eb1]

Alright. This is getting interesting.

So, if I buy the Dillion BL 550, and then add a Lee Auto Disk measure, and prime off the press, I would have a pretty good setup. This might be an option to think about.

And after further reviews and videos, I think the Pro 2000 is a very, very good option with the Auto Index for a progressive press. Caliber changes are very reasonable. $26 for the die plate, and roughly $30 for the shell plates. Way cheaper than the Dillion, and if people are putting the Uni-Flow on their Dillion presses due to the powder charger not handling extruded powders well. Why even mess with Dillion? <--Kind of a rhetorical question.

 

[cfullgraf]

GW Star,

You are saying you use both the Dillion and the Pro 2000, or the Uniflow on your Dillion?

Eb1, just to confuse you a bit, I modified a Redding 10-X powder measure for use on my Hornady progressive.

Reloaders always think they can come up with a better mouse trap.

Sounds like you arriving at a good plan.

 

[kingmt]

Like I said I have never used the Dillion but it looks just like the RCBS & the Hornady. To me the Hornady & RCBS are the same thing. I don't like either measure but if you do I don't see why you wouldn't like all 3.

 

[jmorris]

So, if I buy the Dillion BL 550, and then add a Lee Auto Disk measure, and prime off the press, I would have a pretty good setup. This might be an option to think about.

That would be the least "progressive" way to load on a progressive. If I thought that was the way I wanted to load I would sell my progressive presses and just use a turret press.

 

[Eb1]

jmorris, this is true, and i agree. It would be pretty much a turret press at that point.


I am really leaning towards the RCBS 2000. I am trying to read more about it, and find as much info as possible. I'd get the Dillion in a heartbeat if Brian hadn't told me that my stick powders wouldn't work very well with the press. Gotta give it to the man. He was honest, and I might just change my mind, and take up to finding new loads again. After all that is what hand loading is about to me. I had a good time finding new loads. Although now that I have them, I enjoy shooting accurate guns. LOL

I did read that Ramshot has powders that would fill the bill for all of my cartridges. True Blue for 9mm, .44 SPC, and .44 Mag (Medium Loads and Cast Loads), Magnum for .25-06, and TAC for .30-30 and .223.
Which would allow me to load on the Dillion. I also have H335 and BLC-2, and could use H110 or 296 for .44 Mag.

Options are not always a good thing... LOL

 

[jmorris]

If I couldn't have come up with better loads using "progressive frendly" powders, I would have rigged up a way to throw extruded powders with the other measures I have.

I had a 20# keg of "long cut" 3031 given to me that I suffered through on Dillons and then bought an LNL (as many say it's measure is better with extruded powders) but didn't have much luck. A turret and loading 45-70 fixed the problem.

 

[Eb1]

jmorris, i really appreciate the information and suggestions.

 

[Eb1]

Well, since my wife is selling stuff on consignment to pay for this anniversary gift, and has been doing her own research. She does not want me to get a primer tube feed progressive press since she has seen some images on G'oo'gle.
She wants to buy me the RCBS Pro 2000, and said if I wanted another press later to buy it myself, but from the videos she has seen, and what she has read about the press. She like it. Hey! It is her money, and gift to me. I won't spoil her fun and surprise. I also think I will be happy with the press. It will be an improvement over the Challenger I gave to a buddy, and the Lee Hand Press I am using now.

Guy and Gals, thanks you so much for the conversation. I plan to revisit this thread with a full review including pics and/or video of me using the press. The first calibers will be .223 and .44 Mag/Special.
I have also seen that RCBS is making a Power Expander/Drop so that you can use the Uni-Flow in station 2, to allow for more versatile die setups.

I owe a lot of thanks to THR. This is a great forum.

 

[cfullgraf]

I plan to revisit this thread with a full review including pics and/or video of me using the press.

I, for one, will be interested in your review of the RCBS progressive.

Enjoy your new machine.

 

[GW Staar]

Well I reread my post twice and couldn't see where I suggested I was using a Dillon. My only progressive is the Pro 2000. Sorry if I confused you. For powder measures I have 2 Uniflows. One has the RCBS linkage. The other I bought the Hornady p.m. linkage and powder thru expanders. Fits the Uniflow just fine.

Why? Because at the time RCBS did not have a powder thru expander for their progressive linkage/Uniflow. They do now, so now I use both linkages and expanders. All that to drop powder at station 2 for pistol loading.

Dillon's powder measures have always expanded and dropped powder on the same station, RCBS finally listened.

My actual experience with Dillon was that I used a friend's Dillon 650 for a while before I bought the RCBS. Good press...just more complicated. I prefer the APS primer system. More fool proof, and with preloaded primers, faster.

BTW, changing primer size on the RCBS is extremely fast and simple. Less than 10 seconds. Unscrew little primer rod, screw in big rod.

GW Star,

You are saying you use both the Dillion and the Pro 2000, or the Uniflow on your Dillion?

 

[Meta]

Here's the reality: Most folks are coming off a single stage press will find any progressive a big improvement. However, I don't think it's a reasonable to compare a Lee Turret press or even some of the other cheap alternatives out there to a Dillon 650. Will both make decent ammo? Sure, I suppose. Will a Toyota Corolla and a Mercedes both get you to work on time? Yup. If you want the no-compromise best press, get the Dillon 650 with case feeder. I have two of them, plus a 550. Even the 550, while a well made unit, will not even come close to competing with the 650 in volume. I'd even argue that the 650 is safer WITH the auto indexing. It reduces or eliminates the chance of a double charge. A big bonus is Dillons warranty. Lifetime, no questions, no BS.

 

[Meta]

If you want a great powder, arguably the best for up to 55 grain bullets, H335 is great. It meters extremely well in a progressive.

 

[buckbrush]

I had a 550 for several years, it works well. The de-priming and priming in the same station is it's big downfall. I had to clean the primer slide every few hundred rounds to keep the priming fairly reliable.

I broke the crank on the 550 FLS 7.62 brass in a small base die I use for 7.62. Dillon replaced the crank of course.

I lucked into a used RCBS 2000, and I ran it fora year side by side with the 550, and preferred the RCBS 2000 in every way other than the paint quality. The primer strip system looks hokey, but it works great and is much more reliable than any tube system I have used other than Star's. I have never heard of a primer strip system blowing up, Dillon's systems do blow on occasion.

I sold the 550, no regrets at all. If you load rifle ammo progressively, you will appreciated the greater leverage and rigidity of the 2000.

One advantage to Dillon equipment in general is it's resale value. If you need to raise money, Dillon's sell quickly and for good money.

 

[Eb1]

Meta, thanks for the advice, and I don't doubt one bit from my research and others infomration that the 650 is one heck of a machine.

Here is my situation.

I need to be able to load around 400 .44 Magnums and 200 .44 SPC a month possible every two months. I want to load around 300-400 .25-06 per year. I am going to load around 2000 .223 rounds per month, and about the same for 9mm. I will load about 200 rounds of 30-30 per month also. .32 H&R Magnum will be loaded in 200 round batches, I figure.

With these totals I am nowhere near the potential output of a Dillion 650, and the cost of caliber changes for these minimal amounts of ammo doesn't add up. No, pun intended.
Yes, I could and do load this much with a single stage, but the time away from my family and other chores around the house are consumed by hand loading. A turret would suffice, but I don't like the 4 pulls for one bullet aspect.
Therefore I think the RCBS Pro 2000 will be perfect for my needs. It will produce good ammo in the quantities that I need. The caliber changes will be cheaper for me, and the powder measure is better suited for the loads, using extruded powders, I already have developed over the years.

When I get back into High Power the RCBS Pro 2000 will be fine for loading enough practice and competition ammo between matches.

I pretty much have my mind made up. I am choosing the RCBS Pro 2000, and with the new powder through funnels I can expand and charge in one station if I would like.

Everyone, again thank you for the awesome information, and helping me work out my decision. There will be a review with pics and possibly a video when I have the press setup.

 

[EddieNFL]

Like I said I have never used the Dillion but it looks just like the RCBS & the Hornady.

Pretty much the only similarity between Dillon and the RCBS and Hornady are the powder hoppers. Operation is completely different.

I've successfully loaded 322, 4227, 135 and a couple other smaller granuled stick powders with Dillon measures. For larger granuled powders the RCBS and Hornady work better.

 

[DBR]

I chose the RCBS 2000 manual indexing for most of my reloading. It is by far the most flexible press you can get.

For pistol I use a Dillon powder measure in station #2 for any load that uses a ball or flake powder. This also expands the case mouth. The Dillon part that goes in the tool head and sets the case flare stays with the tool head. Only the powder measure is moved for changes. One trick with the Dillon measure is to measure the space from the adjustable part of the powder bar to the end of its slot and record it. This makes powder charges easy to duplicate.

For extruded powders there are a couple of choices. You can use the RCBS powder measure with the linkage or using a couple of Dillon parts you can "hand throw" the powder using any powder measure that mounts in a die station. I use a Redding BR3. This allows the "tap tap" on the up stroke and the "tap tap" on the down stroke that makes these measures very consistent. It also allows them to cut powder without jolting the press.

The RCBS 2000 also works great with the Dillon Case Trimmer. I put the trimmer in station #3 (the one that is part of the frame). I use a Dillon or Redding decapping die in station #1 and a Sinclair expander mandrel in station #5. Each pull of the handle produces a decapped, sized, trimmed and neck expanded case that is ready to go except for possible primer pocket swaging.

 

[Bowfishrp]

I own a LNL AP and if I were in your shoes I would get the 650. That way you can eventually get the case feeder and maybe the bullet feeder and would not have to buy a new press to go faster.

If I had it to do over again I would get the Dillon 650. Yeah it would have ended up costing me more in the long run but their superior customer service is unquestionable. Now I wish I had a 1050 just for the extra die stations!

 

[Certaindeaf]

.I ended up choosing the Dillion 550b..

Very good then. Please tell us what you think of it.

 

[Eb1]

Dang, it seems that somehow when money comes, money goes, but not to the things it was meant for.
My mother has had surgery on July 11, 2012, and I have had to help with her bills. Call me the good son.

Well. To save a few buck I have put together a blah... dare I say it? A step down to a Turret Press.

Consists of:


109.99 4 classic turret press
8.00 Lee Auto Disk Powder Measure Riser
21.99 Lee Safety Prime Small and Large
24.00 Auto powder measure
10.99 double disk measure
10.99 Lee Auto-Disk Rifle Powder Charging Die 22 to 30 Calibers

Total $186.00 for press and accessories

I also thought about buying the Hornady Auto Charger since it is on sale for $215.00. I always wanted an electronic powder charger for those single stage rifle rounds. That would be a total of $401.99 + shipping.


I can see the Turret Press being logical. As I will have more bills to cover for my mother when in the coming months. She has about a years recovery from the surgery she had, and I am the only child that seems to care, and will give back what we have received our entire lives.

Another thought it to save money on the risers and auto disk power measure, and buy the Hornady Auto Charger then I could just use a funnel in an auto index turret to crank out ammo, and it would be pretty consistent. Definately not as fast as the Pro 2000, but possibly accurate ammo with any powder I choose, and shouldn't I still get my numbers per month? At least close to it. Darn it! I have waited so long for a progressive press, and now I am having to settle again unless I want to keep using my hand press.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I think you, like everybody that's laid hands on one, will be happy with that setup.

 

[jmorris]

Now I wish I had a 1050 just for the extra die stations!

You really don't get any "extra" stations over the five station presse as station 1 is nothing but case feed, station #3 is for the swager and #5 is only for priming (no threads for a die), that only leaves 5 stations just like the 650 and LNL (they just combine case feed with size/deprime and primer seat with powder charge). What you do get is a down stroke priming system that lets you adjust the depth you seat primers, the swaging station a tool head that aligns with the shell plate using dowels, a device that prevents anything other than a full/complete stroke and one hell of a solid press.