Mosin Nagant attack!

[Cosmoline]

I dont know much about the Mosin Nagant rifles but Im interesting on buying one. I want to practice on long range shooting. The ammo is cheap so Im not worried since I dont have enough money to buy Tikka T3. Which of the Mosin's are good to buy? Will I be able to add a scope later?

How long range? None of the Mosins are really suitable for mounting a high-powered scope. It can be done but you are MUCH Better off getting a Savage with the good trigger. The best shooting Mosins are Finnish, many of which were actually put together by Tikka. Don't even think about hacking one, though.

 

[dookiesbud]

within 100 yards, what type of rifle scope would you all recommend without breaking the bank?

 

[Cosmoline]

None. No scope. Within 150 you absolutely don't need one. Get an M-39 and learn how to use the irons and you'll be good out to 200 or more.

 

[KaceCoyote]

+1 to the above. Dont get too comfy with glass, its a crutch at these ranges.

 

[grimjaw]

Yep, I don't intend to scope any of my milsurps that weren't built for it. I've got a couple of TechSights for my SKS's, but those are non-permanent, non-intrusive, open sight upgrades.

jmm

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I have had a Mosin-Nagant aince about 1991, and I still find it fantastic.

This is a Jules Verne/H.G. Wells era design, a 19th century marvel.

 

[grimjaw]

Finally got the 'antique' out to the range today. I was lucky enough yesterday to be allowed to shoot a Russian M/N, so I had an idea of what to expect for recoil.

After 25 rounds, I am in pain.

I am not gifted with Russian shoulders and didn't have a recoil pad. Rifle kicks like a mule from a bench. Standing was easier.

I was using Winchester 180gr soft point and Brown Bear 180gr FMJ. POI was at least a foot over POA at 100 yards. I'm going to try different ammunition weight before I consider raising the front post somehow. Windage appears to be good. The top handguard tends to work itself loose of the bands.

It's hard to say what groups will be like, but my guess is it can manage 6" with open sights. I popped the 200 yard gong once while standing and that made me smile.

jmm

 

[DMK]

Try some 147-149 grain ammo like Czech, Hungarian or Polish LPZS silvertip surplus. I believe S&B has some commercial 148gr. also. That should lower your POI a bit and it will be a little easier on the shoulder.

The metal butt plate and the stock design really do punish your shoulder. I picked up a slip on recoil pad from Cabellas and never shoot a Mosin with out it!


That Finn 91/30 is pretty!

 

[fastsvt1998]

I am new here and obviously, this is my first post. Excuse me if I am posting in the wrong area. I have a Russian 91/30. Just tried some winchester soft point, czech, and polish surplus. I am having problems with the bolt opening after the cartridge is spent. I mean, you really have to hit it to get it to open, and then sometimes, the next round won't chamber right and the bolt is hard to close. Try the modern Winchester, and Bam, the problem goes away. Anything I should be looking at here?

 

[ArmedBear]

Stuck bolt is common problem. My Mosin Carbine is still in grease. Someone here does know the answer, though; check back!

Rifle kicks like a mule from a bench. Standing was easier.

Benchrest shooting is rather uncommon in combat.

Everything sucks from the bench. But you gotta sight in and test loads somehow. Otherwise, I can't stand butt-shooting.

 

[OCJ]

get yourself a limbsaver slip on recoil pad and you'll be able to shoot all day without a sore shoulder. But then stock up on ammo cause you're gonna be shooting alot more of it.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

fastsvt1998
"I am having problems with the bolt opening after the cartridge is spent. I mean, you really have to hit it to get it to open, and then sometimes, the next round won't chamber right and the bolt is hard to close. Try the modern Winchester, and Bam, the problem goes away. Anything I should be looking at here?"

For what it is worth, at THR > Tools and Technologies > Rifle Country > nagant vs sks vs carcano

If you get the Mosin, be careful on the ammo you get. 7.62 x54R. I got some from SOG. It was the "silver tip steel cased" The ammo would stick in the chamber. You actually had to beat the bolt handle on the bench to get it open. Some of the cases were even splitting. I checked and my rifle was correctly headspaced.

Come to find out from a guy, that some of that ammo was actually de-linked machine gun ammo and are really hot. I got some Wolf and some other newly manufactured brass ammo and it worked great. . . .

 

[fastsvt1998]

Thanks Carl. I appreciate the help to a new guy here in the forum. I will have the head space checked and then see. Come to think of it, I did find some cases that were split and the barrel was getting really hot. It only had the problem once the round was spent. If you just cycled the action and chambered and ejected, no prob. It was only after the "explosion" the problem would occur.

 

[GD]

Clean the chamber really well with a larger brush (I use a Garand brush and sometimes a well worn 20 gauge brush). That has cleared up every sticky bolt mosin I have encountered.
I can shoot the worst recoiling mosin without any pain because I have learned how to hold them. It is really hard to to hold a rifle correctly off the bench. Since I hunt, I avoid using the rifle off the bench. I have learned how to fire when kneeling and sitting to where I can shoot just as well from those positions as off the bench. It is all in bracing the rifle and your arms in a very steady position. I am still working on shooting from a standing position without being unsteady. It simply takes a lot of practice.
If you must shoot off the bench, I would recommend not using heavy ball (yellow tip) and using a towel or recoil pad. If you hunt, shooting off the bench will not help you when you have to shoot that deer without support.

 

[fastsvt1998]

Is there any danger in using a bolt from another Mosin if the cleaning doesnt work? I have another from an M-44 that has never had any chambering problems.

 

[Sewerman]

Ga. arms has silver bear 200 gr. soft point 50 rnds for 14 bucks, it is by far the best ammo for my m-38. It is VERY accurate and a great hunting round as well. I shot a 130 lb. hog with it last fall, from 60-70 yds it hit him like a semi. Practically cleaned him for me.

 

[Davo]

Can anyone recommend a good place to purchase a fin? I got my C&R yesterday, and want one bad.

 

[grimjaw]

Davo, I think AIM Surplus has some left. You might also try Classic Arms. The one I have (pictured in this thread) came from AIM.

jmm

 

[Kymasabe]

Hey George...

If you're thinking of buying a Mosin, I'd suggest staying away from WW2 years unless the gun has been re-arsenaled. My M38 is rough and sloppy in comparison to my Polish M44. The difference in maching on the two bolts is dramatic. The Russian bolts looks like it was carved with an axe, the Polish bolt is polished and shiny....and works so smoooooth.

 

[fastsvt1998]

Well, after narrowing it down, it seems the problem is with the lacquer coated case czech ammo. Shot about 100 rounds of polish copper case, and some olympic brass case and no problems. Another guy at the range yesterday had a Mossin and I let him try the czech ammo. Same thing. His bolt jammed and was hard to open. I think the rounds are too hot or the lacquer on the case is a problem. Anyway, problem solved.

 

[Davo]

Yeah Ive had a similar problem with the czeck silvertips. I find it odd that they are so sticky, as I understand it this is the intended load for the SVD we are facing throughout the world. Ive cleaned up my m91/30's chamber, and it helped. Im thinking of polishing the heck out of its chamber with flitz, to aid in making it quicker shooting. I do not like having to wrestle my rifle to manipulate the bolt.

 

[grimjaw]

Here's the rest of the lineup, minus the M44 (stock has a nasty crack in it).

From left:

- 1943 M38 Izzy, M44 stock
- 1939 M91/30 Izzy, with a Soviet splice (hard to see though)
- 1932 M91/30 Tula
- 1929 Tula updated Dragoon
- 1894 Chatellerault receiver, Austrian capture marks, 1944 Finn stock and barrel
- Not pictured, 1944 M44 Izzy

Most if not all of them have been rearsenaled. Out of the ones I've had the chance to decosmo and fire, the M38 is the most accurate and my favorite.

jmm

 

[Trebor]

There's a lot of difference between the stamped captured 91/30's and the Tikka 91/30's. Your's has the Tikka "T" and potbelly stock. It's a Finn construction, not just a rebuild.

The Finns never manufactured their own receivers. All Finn Mosins are therefore "rebuilds." Some were rebuilt more then others though and in some cases the original receiver is about the only remaining original part of the gun.

 

[Dark Helmet]

Finn M39 antiques www.gunsnammo.com

 

[grimjaw]

"Fake" sniper, but you could have fooled me.

Picked up a replica Mosin Nagant PU from Classic Arms a couple of weeks ago, finally got it out to the range today. It's a Tula 'hex' receiver made in 1929, excellent shape.

Assuming the optic was solid, I figured I would get better groups just from having it available. At worst, it would shoot like a typical 91/30 and maybe manage 4-6 MOA. It does just a bit better than that.

The shot marked in orange was aimed at that point, not a flier. These were all with Wolf 148gr bimetal FMJ. I think the best part of the day was popping the 450 yard gong with every shot, whilst the poor fellas with the bull-barrelled, holographic-sighted AR couldn't manage to hit 200.

Whoever did the work to mount the rail did it well. The scope was quick to adjust and maintained zero. I had a couple of feeding problems, but I'm pretty sure it was due to some goop left in the magazine. It's also hefty; much better to shoot it supported or have lots of upper body strength to steady it. This is a very nice gun, if a little expensive for a Mosin Nagant. Considering it's over 70 years old and still tougher than many other $600+ rifles, I don't feel cheated.

jmm