Most accurate military rifle you have ever fired.

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tark

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Here's the rules, gang:

Groups at 100 yards or longer..
Two classes, bolt action (Including straight pull)
Automatics.
Gun must be standard issue rifle, no NM or special target versions.
Groups must have been shot with issue service ammo.
Iron sights only.

Most accurate bolt I ever shot is my Ross Mk III straight pull in .303. It would shoot half MOA at 100 with surplus ammo, when I could fine any. If you have ever seen a Mk III you will know why....31 " BBL, finely adjustable aperture with a 36" sighting radius. Thing weighs almost 11 pounds loaded and I think the barrel alone is about half of that. It may have been a miserable failure in the mud of Flanders but it makes a really good target gun. Still have it.

This spring I have a Nice K-31 witch will attempt to wrest the title from the Ross. I have some of that fine Swiss surplus ammo to try.

And the automatic? I had a Colt H-bar almost 30 years ago that would shoot dime sized groups 100 yards. And It had a chromed bore! WISH I still had it!!
 
My most accurate military rifle was a Swedish Mauser. I can't give you group size, etc, but I was more accurate with it than others I've tried including M-1, Carbine, Brit. .303, M-14, and Springfield '03.
 
I have shot some really excellent groups with my K31, but using a bench rest. I have shot the same rifle in 100 yard reduced Highpower competition and my groups were much larger. The rifle was very sensitive to position and hold and I could not use a standard three loop sling. For one thing, the K31 sling attachment is on the side, it is meant for carrying.

Look, service rifles are not target rifles, they were not meant to be, and they were not. The typical requirements analysis determined all a service rifle needed to do was shoot 3 MOA. I read the test documentation of the FAL's, M14's, and all those contendors, and they were 4 MOA to 6 MOA with service ammunition.

This is what Hummer70 said about about American service rifle accuracy:


http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5424409

The M14 in issue condition is known as the worst performing rifle we ever fielded. I worked product engineering for the Army Small Cal Lab at Picatinny Arsenal and I had engineering responsibility for the M14 until the Chief transferred me to the Dover Devil MG project. While there my board was adjacent to Julio Savioli who was the draftsman for the M14 rifle and his name is on all the drawings for it. Al Cole was engineer in charge of the M14 and he was also a friend. Savy (as we called him) was a wealth of information on the M14 and had all kinds of stories about it as he not only did the drawings, he was in on the field testing.

First off consider the requirement facts from the engineering files from the government weapons production efforts.

1. acceptance accuracy for 1903 Springfield was 3" at 100 yards.
2. acceptance accuracy for M1 Garand was 5" at 100 yards.
3. acceptance accuracy for M14 was 5.5" at 100 yards and was waivered continually as it could not meet that.
4. acceptance accuracy for M16 series is 4.5" at 100 yards.

From SAAMI we have a recommendation of 3" at 100 yards and it is up to the vendor whether he wants to meet this or not.

H&R also made M14s and M1s and the contracts were shut down due to poor QA.

The M14 if rebuilt correctly and very few can do so is capable of acceptable accuracy. For instance the Army MTU rebuild program with rifle fired from machine rest was 10 shots in 4.5" at 300 yards. Some would go to 3" but rarely. A good bolt gun will shoot in 2" at 300 yards.

Now lets understand something, Armies don't train their troops to a high level of marksmanship. I was surprised to find just how low the marksmanship level was for the Army, but this popped out after the Chattanooga attack:


20 July 2015
Military leaders question rush to arm soldiers after Chattanooga
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article27952513.html
“They’re not expert marksmen,” Stimson said. “They don’t have the annual requirement to qualify on a shooting range like a (Navy) SEAL would or a Green Beret or a Marine.”

Of the five military services, only the Marine Corps requires every member to qualify as a rifleman, in part because Marines provide security at U.S. embassies and other American facilities around the world.

The other four services provide only basic weapons training to most of their members, providing combat-level training only to those who are headed to war zones.

In the Army, by far the largest service, only 5 percent of soldiers obtain an expert badge, the highest rating. For the rest, their jobs don’t require such high proficiency or they lack the necessary skills.

Shooting accurately is a skill. It takes a lot of time and practice to be good. The US Army does not spend that time or money training its members to be marksman, and is not going to either. So in an environment where so little is expected of service members, other than to be "cannon fodder", why would you arm them with an expensive target rifle?

Service rifles are primarily built to be cheap, built to be reliable, simple to dissemble, easy to clean, go bang when pointed in the general direction of the enemy. Accuracy is pretty low on the list. The AK47 is a masterful accomplishment in this regards. The AK can be handed to children with almost no weapon training, and it will function. I suspect the kids using the things have their eyes closed when firing, but, up close, they will kill people.
 
When they were using them a lot and the Military gunsmiths at Camp Perry
were doing the work, the National Match M1s, M14s and even the 1911s really
shot well.

Zeke
 
I have two; 1903A3 and Swiss K-31. I've only shot them at 100 yards using open sights, but with an optic, both would qualify for sniper rifles.
 
Swiss K31 would be the most accurate bolt action rifle I've shot, but unfortunately it is getting hard to find GP11 ammo anymore. I have an Argentine Mauser that is almost as accurate with modern ammo. I've never found any standard issue service ammo for it.

Most accurate semi would be the M1 Garand, but I've only fired one other semi military type of rifle (Chinese SKS), so probably not a good comparison.
 
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A friend has an outstanding 1903, not even an a1, a plain old 1903 that puts ball ammo on apples every shot from the porch to the edge of his pasture which is about 150 yards. His IH Garand does just as well.
 
My MAS 36 will do 1 MOA at 100 yds from the bench. That is with PPU 139gr spitzers. About the best out of all my milsurps. Makes sense, since it came to me as an unfired refurb.
 
Definitely the M-14, in the Marine Corps, we had to qualify as far away as 500 meters. In fact on pre-qualification day I shot a record high, however when it came to the qualification day I barely qualified as an expert. Needless to say it was me and definitely not the rifle, so I stand on the most accurate rifle while in the Marine Corps was definitely the M-14.
 
Carl Gustav 6.5x55 Swede. I once put 6 rounds into the size of my hat at 400 yards with PPU ammo. I should have never sold that rifle.
 
I have an Enfield .303 that, at 100 yards, will keep all shots inside a hole that can be covered by a nickel until the barrel gets warm, normally about 5-6 shots.
And that's just using 180gr Remington corelokt, it does have a old leupold on it.
 
Wow! lots of input.

Doc7, I was in my mid thirties then and had 20-18 vision in both eyes when I shot those groups. The Ross had a very good two stage trigger and the H-bar's was crisp and clean.as well. That certainly helped.

It has been said that in WW1 ; the British and Germans fielded a battle rifle and the Americans fielded a target rifle. Well, the Canadians, fielded a better target rifle. The Ross has a 31" barrel of heavy contour, with a finely adjustable aperture rear sight hanging off the back of a very long receiver, giving a sight radius of fully three feet!. The trigger is a bit different from most two stage triggers. The initial take up is very long, but light, and the final stage is a very crisp five pounds. It breaks like glass. Think of the best single stage five pound trigger you have ever used and that is what the second stage on the Ross feels like. It's not an ideal trigger for a military rifle but it sure does make for a good paper puncher.

The Ross went down in history as a miserable failure. It was too long, too heavy and, most seriously, it would blow up in your face if you assembled the bolt improperly. I don't consider that the rifle's fault, soldiers in the field weren't supposed to be taking the bolt apart in the first place. It was prone to jamming. Which, by the way, had nothing to do with mud and dirt in the action. But that is a topic for a different thread.

And the H-BAR? What can I say? An early incarnation of what I believe to now be the most accurate standard issue service rifle in the world today. Funny, isn't it> I always hated ARs......until I actually held and fired one!:)
 
My Smith Corona 1943 O3A3. The rifle is 1.5 inches at 100 with the GI sights and it shoots well with a range of different 30-06. My two Swedish masters, German K98, Tula 1939 Mosin and M1 Garand are not in the same realm when it comes to accuracy.
 
My old XM177E2S Bushmaster was bone stock and under an inch with irons at 100.
Took a bit to figure out how to run it with such junk trigger.
Was sandbagged.

My Stag build with JP trigger springs and set screw is sub MOA w 55gr Vmax (is scoped for coyote hunting). 7X and I get 1/2 groups. My bud who bought it from me does an inch.

Plopped down behind an Argy FAL..........bone stock, shot palm sized group iron sighted, off my elbows ( rough shooting bench too, tore the hide up). 10 shots.
200 yards. Group was high and right, but I thought that decent enough.

That was 10 yrs ago. My eyes have gone to crap since then.
Pops has a different Argy now. Sold one of his unfired Belgians, other 2 still NIB.

Dunno if they'd be better or worse.

Must admit, his FNC para is a wicked little shooter. I chuck hunted it, shot one at 250 offhand (missed first shot high, got on second- was on the move too- buddy missed it so I figured what the heck).
 
Have had at least 7 AR's............never really liked them.
Still have 2. Figure every good citizen should have at least one rig of similar type.
Heading to range in a few to zero the latest Frankenstein.
 
Sighted in my Arisaka Type 38 last fall in prep for deer season. Sighting in on a sled, which I rarely do, with Hornady polymer tip ammo, I was shooting darn near 2" groups with those irons and a spotting scope on the 100 yard line. Wish I saved that target or at least gotten a picture of it.

2" on a three shot group, that opened up to about 4.5" when I shot two more. Barrel warmed up and the group opened up. But it was still perfectly OK for a cold bore shot on a deer.
 
My Mosin 91/30 will shoot 1 hole groups at 200yds using corroded Russian surplus ammo ...

until I fire the second shot. LMAO

In reality probably my M1 Grand that has a barrel that gauges 1+ / 2.

Lots of good shooters. I shoot Vintage military matches and have seen VERY few guns/shooters that consistently hold groups that small.
 
Most accurate and repeatable military rifle I own is a K-31. It just flat out shoots. It's what I shoot when I need to feel good about myself. Ringing half size silhouettes at 300-400 yards with opens sights always makes me smile.

I've never shot it for groups outside of original zeroing when I bought it.
 
Worst shooting rifles I've had were commercial- 742 carbine and Winchester Big Bore 94.
Both pretty and like new (well the 94 was bought new LOL).
Broke my heart after a bit of range time.

Those rigs were 7 or 8" at 100 yds.

Proly the most crude of military rifles could beat them without much effort.
 
For me it's either my K-31 Swiss or m6 96 Swedish Mauser. On any given day 1 will shoot just a bit better than the other. Lots of great rifles listed in this thread.
 
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