Most effective short barreled big game stopper
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Ugly Sauce
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But wait...! You can have a .45-70 in a bolt action. (which would not be picky about seating depth like a lever gun) If you were dead-set on that cartridge. Not disqualified!
I was a surfing among the outfits online one day that raise buffalo, and for a fee they'll let you shoot one in the pasture, or out on their range. An interesting comment by one of the outfits was that the guys shooting the old "buffalo" cartridges in their Sharps rifles were dropping the buffs quicker than the dudes with their modern super magnum rifles. ? So ballistic formulas for estimating energy and effectiveness are not perfect I think. I would not underestimate the .45-70 even at black powder velocity.
Anyhow, I'm still voting for the .350RemMag, which is great for smaller game by just loading down to .358 Win, .35Rem, or 350 Legend with appropriate bullets.
I was a surfing among the outfits online one day that raise buffalo, and for a fee they'll let you shoot one in the pasture, or out on their range. An interesting comment by one of the outfits was that the guys shooting the old "buffalo" cartridges in their Sharps rifles were dropping the buffs quicker than the dudes with their modern super magnum rifles. ? So ballistic formulas for estimating energy and effectiveness are not perfect I think. I would not underestimate the .45-70 even at black powder velocity.
Anyhow, I'm still voting for the .350RemMag, which is great for smaller game by just loading down to .358 Win, .35Rem, or 350 Legend with appropriate bullets.
troy fairweather
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45-70 can load out a bit over 3.00" col. Shot 400 swifts faster then anyone will ever need.
Riomouse911
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The 20” Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan in .375 Ruger is about as compact a charge-stopper that I can think of that still has the range to hit hard at 250-300 yards or beyond if needed.
https://ruger.com/products/HawkeyeAlaskan/models.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.375_Ruger
Stay safe.
https://ruger.com/products/HawkeyeAlaskan/models.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.375_Ruger
Stay safe.
So, are we talking about hunting bears at distance, or stopping charging bears?
Longer ranges favor longer barrels and bottlenecked cartridges with lighter projectiles and higher velocities, especially if the hunter has the time to take a good, clean shot.
Stopping charging bears favor shorter, handier guns, capable of quickly firing several heavy rounds at more moderate velocities.
Longer ranges favor longer barrels and bottlenecked cartridges with lighter projectiles and higher velocities, especially if the hunter has the time to take a good, clean shot.
Stopping charging bears favor shorter, handier guns, capable of quickly firing several heavy rounds at more moderate velocities.
Ugly Sauce
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Truth. However, I think .35"caliber is a good compromise, a .350RM or .35 Whelen will do both pretty well. I think the thirty-fives will shoot out to reasonable, realistic long range, 300-350 yards with 200 or maybe 225 grain bullets. But with 275-300 grain bullets I'd consider those to be "heavy rounds" for sure, and would stop a bear at close range.
tark
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A good question. For the latter I would be quite happy with a Pedersoli double rifle. Those are 45-70 . Plenty of horsepower. Expensive, but almost affordable. Can be rechambered to accept the 3 1/4 inch case and loaded to Elephant rifle power without high pressures.
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Ugly Sauce
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Well Square-pants said if you were hunting bear in heavy brush with a bolt action rifle. So that would be what we be talking about. And I say again, .350 Remington Magnum! Mine has a 20" barrel, but heavy brush or not, I'd go with a 22" if there was some way I could add two inches to mine. On the other hand, if I had such an opportunity I'd take it like it is.
tark
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I have fired one of those. I will never do THAT again!
I think I still have the bruise. There is no doubt that that caliber would be adequate for the largest bear. And I liked the fact that the Remington ballistics posted were from the actual barrel length on the gun!
I assume he meant stopping game such as moose but including bears. Moose will stomp you and tenderize you and then the bears can snack on what is left over. So I figured when he said to stop he meant that but also that the rifle would be suitable for hunting at some distance large and potentially dangerous critters that might need a good attitude adjustment whilst in pursuit.
And I am still saying something along the lines of the 1895 SBL is quite the attitude adjuster when loaded up with +P loads. I know it has adjusted my attitude a few times
. But I also like the idea of a big bore, controlled feed bolt gun with a little more reach for dual purpose. Not that a Marlin cannot reach out and smack the excrement out of something or other.
3C
And I am still saying something along the lines of the 1895 SBL is quite the attitude adjuster when loaded up with +P loads. I know it has adjusted my attitude a few times
. But I also like the idea of a big bore, controlled feed bolt gun with a little more reach for dual purpose. Not that a Marlin cannot reach out and smack the excrement out of something or other.3C
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xphunter
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I run a lot of 14, 15, 16, 17, and 18 inch barrels in about everything you can imagine.
Seems like you are talking about black bear, and barrels in the 18-20 inch range kill great.
I have killed elk and large plains game with short barrels,and some at distances further than you are considering.
Max distance is probably under 300 yards? Guessing???
What cartridge do you want to use?
Obturation
Member
45-70 will knock down any critter if you hit them right. You want mass, velocity is less important . If I was romping through the brush in bear country my first choice would be 45-70, regardless of my budget. A lot of folks that bad mouth the cartridge just don't understand how to use it right, simple as that .
WrongHanded
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I was going to say the 20" barreled Ruger Guide Gun in .375 Ruger. But I suppose they also make one in .416 Ruger.
someguy2800
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My personal favorite for short range thump is 444 marlin. A 320 gr gas check cast at 2200 fps gets the job done, and if a more medium range shot opportunity presents itself, it is much flatter shooting with less wind drift than 45/70. It cannot push the kind of weight that the gov. can, but still offers feet of penetration and I find it a much more practical cartridge.
someguy2800
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I did also want to point out that 338 WM is not an overbore magnum despite its name. The ratio of powder volume to bore area is about the same as a 30/06, making it less overbore than say a 280 rem or 270 for example.
someguy2800
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xphunter
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Squarepants,
Some actual velocity numbers:
18” 7mmx300 PRC 190 grain at 2786 fps
20” 300 RUM 230 grain at 2825 fps
18” 338 Lapua Improved (338 AX) 300 grain at just under 2700 fps
18” 7mm Dakota 180’ at 2900 fps
I can give some other numbers, but I don’t have any 35 caliber information handy, but I could get some 15 to 18 inch 35 caliber info if you wanted it from a friend.
One more example:
20 inch 375 Chey-Tac: 352 grain at 2808 fps
Some actual velocity numbers:
18” 7mmx300 PRC 190 grain at 2786 fps
20” 300 RUM 230 grain at 2825 fps
18” 338 Lapua Improved (338 AX) 300 grain at just under 2700 fps
18” 7mm Dakota 180’ at 2900 fps
I can give some other numbers, but I don’t have any 35 caliber information handy, but I could get some 15 to 18 inch 35 caliber info if you wanted it from a friend.
One more example:
20 inch 375 Chey-Tac: 352 grain at 2808 fps
KansasTrapper77
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With my Marlin 45-70 guide gun 18.5” barrel I’ve pushed Sierra 300gr hollow points at just shy of 2100fps. That was also with suggested starting grains in a Lee Reloading Manual, I haven’t even maxed out the load yet.
For high power carbines I think lever gun carbines are hard to beat. But with cartridges such as 350 Legend, 458 Socom and 450 Bushmaster a fella could get some “Dangerous game” energy in short ARs or even bolt action guns I imagine.
Mycin
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With right bullet, I expect 358 Winchester would be a fine choice. Or maybe 338 Federal.
I want one too, sent a gun to a place in Michigan and never got it back or id have one lol.
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KansasTrapper77
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I kinda had a similar thread a while ago though that my idea of an all purpose heavy/dangerous game North America bolt action for thick brush or woods would be a Mauser style action of some kind, with a 20” barrel and chambered in .338-06.
Basically opening up the old .30-06 to throw heavier projectiles at same or lower pressure and not losing as much to the short barrel.
Basically opening up the old .30-06 to throw heavier projectiles at same or lower pressure and not losing as much to the short barrel.
tactikel
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.375 H&H, .35 Whelen, .358 Win., 8mm Mauser. We’re talking bolt action here per the original post, for bears in heavy cover. Black bears vs the great bears is determinate.
A 300 pound black bear, is a different animal than a 900 pound Grizzly or Brown.
For Black bears .308 and down to .30-30 will work. For great bears .30-06 thru .375 H&H is the way to go, IMHO.
A 300 pound black bear, is a different animal than a 900 pound Grizzly or Brown.
For Black bears .308 and down to .30-30 will work. For great bears .30-06 thru .375 H&H is the way to go, IMHO.
In a rifle for hunting, I never use anything under 18". Mostly .308 and 7mm08 as well as
45/70 in 20" bbl for close range. But my opinion has been beat to death lately on short barrels.
My favorite is a .308 Remington Tactical 20" bull barrel, funny thing, I always thought it was an 18"
barrel, now it will feel even heavier.
45/70 in 20" bbl for close range. But my opinion has been beat to death lately on short barrels.
My favorite is a .308 Remington Tactical 20" bull barrel, funny thing, I always thought it was an 18"
barrel, now it will feel even heavier.
someguy2800
Member
I have a czech mauser that could use a new barrel. I’ve thought about rebarreling that to 375 raptor as the intermediate mag length would be great for it. A guy only needs so many deer rifles though and I have about 10 more than that.
My dream rifle would be to get a now defunct DPMS GII and have an 18” 338 federal barrel made for it, but same problem preventing me from acting on that idea.
xphunter
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What bear? Black or Brown?
What Max distance do You have in mind?
A 18" or 20 inch barrel in any bear cartridge, will do a good job of killing at close range.
The 300 WM and the 338 WM Do Not need longer barrels to kill good at shorter distances.
Same goes for the 308 Win, 06, 06 AI, SAUM/WSM/PRC or the 300 PRC, 30 Nosler, 300 RUM, 300 Norma Mag or the 338's, 35 cal, or 375's for that matter.
A 20" 375 CT or 408 CT will kill a bear just fine too
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