Most effective short barreled big game stopper

[Jackiesman]

Bang for buck for a hunting/stopping rifle, a .375 H&H/Ruger has to be a top contender. Good velocity and range capability along with huge penetration and stopping power out of a 20 or 22” barrel.

Yep, my 375H&H is the weatherby with a S 24” bbl. And I have taken big game out to 325 yards, and as close as 15 feet. Damn fine weapon for just about everything. Hunted and killed with a 35 REM years ago and felt it was a very adequate piece for mid-sized game, but never tried it on the big stuff. It was easy on the shoulder and shot like a 30-30. But you better have your big boy pants on to fire the 375 H&H..

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I have; British Columbia back in the 80's hunting moose and grizzly. Carried a 7 mm Rem Magnum but I was hunting and shots were long. For personal protection where shots are close my Marlin 336 in 35 Remington would have been fine. One guide carried a Browning lever action in 358 Win (a nice rifle) and another a Winchester lever action in 375 Win. which I believe is close in ballistics and energy as the 35 Rem. Their rifles were mostly intended for close up shooting backup work.

Yes, I for one hunt/hike/explore/trek in a Grizzly recovery area. I've seen giant tracks, and a giant Grizzly was tagged by the biologists very close to that area. (Nordman Idaho) It is a dumping ground for problem bears from other areas. But that sure don't make me an expert. I just don't worry about it much, and usually feel confident with my Brown Bess musket (big old ball over 140 grains of Swiss) or my .62" Jeager. Also often carry an Argentine Mauser, Trapdoor Springfield, Marlin .45-70, SMLE etc. Sometimes a lowly .30WCF Winchester! I think they would all do "okay", for "close up shooting backup work". And sometimes it's good for one's soul to live a bit dangerously. Probably why I ride motorcycles. Is riding a motorcycle a "smart" choice? Not really. I have a nice tang-safety Ruger 77 in .350RM, 20" ER Shaw barrel. I've never taken it to the woods. It would be pretty ideal for this discussion.

Having said all that, I believe I stand a much greater chance of dying in a traffic accident, on the drive up to, and back from the mountains, then getting attacked by a Grizz. I'd rather die in my beloved mountains, than on the pavement. I'd love to have a .375 H&H, (or .375 Ruger) which would more decisively stop a Grizz, but I think many of the lesser calibers, at close range, would give a guy a good chance.

Whether one prefers a "chance" or a "guarantee", would be a personal choice. The OP is probably looking for a guarantee. So disregard this blaaa blaa bla.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Did we de-rail to an A10 stopping a charging bear? We didn't!? Got it. Carry on.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Did we de-rail to an A10 stopping a charging bear? We didn't!? Got it. Carry on.

No! We de railed an A-10 stopping a charging Buick de rail.

 

[.45Coltguy]

No! We de railed an A-10 stopping a charging Buick de rail.

Whew! Thought I was looking at this all kinds of wrong. Better now.

 

[3Crows]

The .350 Legend has come up several times. What does this cartridge offer other than being useful in an AR platform? It has less energy and range than the .30-30 and probably less penetration though it does have one of my criteria, bigger holes than .30 caliber. The .35 Remington, yes, it is a hunt and stop cartridge as it ekes in over that 2,000 fpe threshold, the .350 Legend, nah. I think for hunting and STOPPING (dangerous game/bears) then the threshold is 3,000 fpe with a big bullet of strong construction or HCL.

3C

 

[Patocazador]

This is a light-weight large caliber rifle that will stop a lot of big boogers with the right loads AND it is for sale on our website
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...t-action-350-rem-mag-washington-state.905445/

Help our own guys out and buy this rifle which will do the job.

 

[Spug]

The short range nature of what you described makes the MV loss of a shorter-than-typical barrel irrelevant, IMO. Sure, rounds like 450 BM etc. make sense for such an application, but it seems to be such a round would be a 1 trick pony (or close to it) since it would be difficult for me to find any other application for it. Black bears aren't as hard to kill as many people think, any more than a wild pig or a white tail. I would consider a light sporter in 308 (like a RAR standard) with the illuminated reticle scope dialed all the way down in the area of 3x or 4x, or even a lever carbine in 30-30. Either rifle would do the job you describe and be useful for many other species and techniques of hunting. Even a shotgun that throws slugs accurately or a decent buckshot pattern should do fine, assuming buckshot is legal in your area. Also, a 308 from a short barrel without a suppressor is pretty noisy to me.

Just a head's up: I'm not really much of a hunter, but I have some experience with bears. Like whitetails and coyotes, they can vary quite a bit in size depending on where you are, and can get quite large in my area. It's called Bergmann's rule; essentially that animals in cold climates tend to be bigger than those in warm regions like the Florida panhandle.

 

[Spug]

It is a dumping ground for problem bears from other areas.

Your recreating in such an area, and with such weapons, is impressive! I'm also in an area that is a dumping ground for problem bears, which bothers me no end. But it's no northern Idaho, although I've occasionally thought of my neighborhood as the northern Idaho of my state.

The .35 Remington, yes, it is a hunt and stop cartridge

I don't even have one, but I really don't want the .35 Remington to go away. I hope Ruger puts it in a new Marlin.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I don't even have one, but I really don't want the .35 Remington to go away. I hope Ruger puts it in a new Marlin.

I think that would be a good move for Ruger. Both the .35Rem and the .358Win would be winners. The .375Win would be nice in a 336.

 

[3Crows]

I read somewhere that a .35 Remington would be one of the chamberings in due course. And that is fine but I would want the .338 Marlin Express in a 336SS. The .30-06 punch in a 336, that will stop something.

3C

 

[Ugly Sauce]

The .30-06 punch in a 336, that will stop something.

That would make for a nice combination. I like that idea.

 

[FL-NC]

Just a head's up: I'm not really much of a hunter, but I have some experience with bears. Like whitetails and coyotes, they can vary quite a bit in size depending on where you are, and can get quite large in my area. It's called Bergmann's rule; essentially that animals in cold climates tend to be bigger than those in warm regions like the Florida panhandle.

100% true- but the larger size/mass/weight of the animal is more or less evenly spread out over a larger area, since unlike humans, wild animals aren't prone to obesity nor are they gym rat bodybuilders- a general rule, as it applies to full grown animals VS something like a small cub compared to an adult . Underneath that mass, the larger animal has the same vital plumbing as the smaller one, which means that unless a hunter is using truly marginal/inappropriate calibers or bullet designs incapable of accessing and therefore damaging those vitals, or at a very extended range where significant energy is lost in flight, the rules of anatomy and shot placement usually remain the most significant factors.

 

[jeepnik]

Just a head's up: I'm not really much of a hunter, but I have some experience with bears. Like whitetails and coyotes, they can vary quite a bit in size depending on where you are, and can get quite large in my area. It's called Bergmann's rule; essentially that animals in cold climates tend to be bigger than those in warm regions like the Florida panhandle.

There’s a lot more to animal size than climate. Terrain, availability of food and good old genetics come into play.

 

[P Flados]

The .350 Legend has come up several times. What does this cartridge offer other than being useful in an AR platform? It has less energy and range than the .30-30 and probably less penetration though it does have one of my criteria, bigger holes than .30 caliber. The .35 Remington, yes, it is a hunt and stop cartridge as it ekes in over that 2,000 fpe threshold, the .350 Legend, nah. I think for hunting and STOPPING (dangerous game/bears) then the threshold is 3,000 fpe with a big bullet of strong construction or HCL.

3C

I have a 16" AR-15 in 357 AR Max (ballistic equivalent to the 350L). I have pushed 200 gr loads to 2000 fps, but dropped back to around 1950 fps as a standard maximum for this bullet. Most 35 Rem published loads with 200s top out around 2100 fps to 2200 fps, but with a 24" barrel. This thread was about "short barrel stopping", so I really do not see the 35 Rem as better enough to matter if you are talking 18" and under for length.

Penetration is much more important for "stopping" than fpe. A lot of rounds get their high fpe numbers based on higher velocities. Higher velocities are not needed and carry more risk for under penetration up close in a dangerous game stopping application. The 350L with a heavy built 180 gr or 200 gr projectile has the penetration needed for up close stopping. The 350L in the AR-15 platform also has a pretty good combination of autoloading, moderate recoil and great magazine capacity. These all help with the very important capability for making rapid and well placed follow-up shots. My 200 gr 357 AR Max loads recoil a lot more than a 223/5.56, but getting back on target after a shot can be pretty quick (the red dot optic I use also helps with this).

In an AR-15 gun, the 450 and 458 are better for effectiveness of an individual shot, but unless a person intentionally trains and practices a bunch, I doubt they will do nearly as well in probability of getting multiple good hits in the charging bear scenario.

The 350L is probably more marginal with bigger game when you start talking hunting applications that include potentially longer distances.

 

[3Crows]

I have a 16" AR-15 in 357 AR Max (ballistic equivalent to the 350L). I have pushed 200 gr loads to 2000 fps, but dropped back to around 1950 fps as a standard maximum for this bullet. Most 35 Rem published loads with 200s top out around 2100 fps to 2200 fps, but with a 24" barrel. This thread was about "short barrel stopping", so I really do not see the 35 Rem as better enough to matter if you are talking 18" and under for length.

Penetration is much more important for "stopping" than fpe. A lot of rounds get their high fpe numbers based on higher velocities. Higher velocities are not needed and carry more risk for under penetration up close in a dangerous game stopping application. The 350L with a heavy built 180 gr or 200 gr projectile has the penetration needed for up close stopping. The 350L in the AR-15 platform also has a pretty good combination of autoloading, moderate recoil and great magazine capacity. These all help with the very important capability for making rapid and well placed follow-up shots. My 200 gr 357 AR Max loads recoil a lot more than a 223/5.56, but getting back on target after a shot can be pretty quick (the red dot optic I use also helps with this).

In an AR-15 gun, the 450 and 458 are better for effectiveness of an individual shot, but unless a person intentionally trains and practices a bunch, I doubt they will do nearly as well in probability of getting multiple good hits in the charging bear scenario.

The 350L is probably more marginal with bigger game when you start talking hunting applications that include potentially longer distances.

I understand the use of the .350L in an AR platform but the OP wanted a hunting rifle that could stop dangerous game (bears?). He specified bolt guns and while I have seen a .350L in a bolt gun I do not understand why I would want a .350L in such a gun when there are so many better choices. An AR in .350L is not really a longer range hunting weapon and probably not much of a stopping one either. But a 20 inch barrel lever gun is quite compact and chambered in .35 Remington would better the .350L in an AR all around. I guess I am a proud FUDD and I am a lever gun guy and I think the .338 Marlin Express fits the bill which emulates the King, the .30-06 Springfield.

Saying that, there is a .350L bolt rifle at Walmart (CVA) and when they put it on heavy discount I am grabbing it. It has been sitting there for a year. I ain't telling where .

3C

 

[someguy2800]

Going down the tangent of powerful calibers for the AR15, 450 bushmaster and 458 soccom always head up that discussion but there are more powerful AR15 compatible cartridge's than both that use special oversize bolt and barrel extensions to handle higher thrust loads. There is the 45 Vrap which is just a rimless 460 smith and wesson magnum. This is said to deliver 2500 FPS with a 240 gr XTP mag with a 16" barrel which absolutely eclipses the 450 or 458. Definitely on my list of must haves. There is also a .429" caliber version they call the 444 Deer Slayer. Kind of a corny name but they say it exceeds 444 marlin ballistics from just a 16" barrel.



I have a 358 Yeti which is a shortened and necked up 308 win case. I actually make mine from 270 brass. I get 2500 fps with a reletively mild load behind a 180 grain speer hot core from a 16" barrel, so its up a few hundred FPS on a factory pressure 35 remington load. I have not tried it yet but supposedly should push a 200 grain RN to 2400 fps. Loaded with the 180 gr speer I find it to be the best balance for a deer rifle that I've found yet. The 358 bullet leaves massive wound cavities but it shoots a lot flatter than the traditional big bores. I'm excited to try it on a beer. Left to right is a 7.62x39, 358 yeti, 444 marlin, 25/06. The 358 Yeti, 45 vrap, and 444 DS are all available from mad dog weapons systems.