Most Revolutionary Rifle Cartridge of the last 150 Years?

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Per Google the 300 Savage was introduced in 1921. The 308 Win was introduced in 1952.
Right, which is why it was able to spawn the .308. ;)

The 7x57 was so far ahead of it's time that it's ballistics are still relevant today. One could argue that even the beloved .308 is still not the round that the 7x57 is.

A 140 grain .53 BC spitzer going 2800 fps way back when????
 
smokeless powder is the most important development in the last 150 years. so, the lebel, which first used smokeless powder and the spitzer bullet (probably a distant second in importance), is the winner, imo.

murf
 
Possibly the .45-70.
Beginning with the Allin conversion in .58 musket, and then evolving into .50-70 Govt., and finally the .45-70 Govt., this cartridge became became one of the first center-fire cartridges.
As well as being highly satisfactory for miltary use, it offered one of the first cartridges that was really effective for large game.
It was so popular that it went on to be chambered in several lever action rifles that were actually designed around it.
 
-Also, the .22 long rifle black powder round came out in 1884 and smokeless rounds a good bit later - well within the OP's 150 year limit.

I think it has to be this......for so many reasons.

Name another round that has been around this long that still has millions of rounds being made each and every day.....that aint the 45-70.

So many started shooting on the 22.....how many 6yr old kids would have turned into life long shooters if they had to put to the shoulder their dads 3006.....I bet a few would have taken a pass on it.

It may not be glamorous, or trendy but the lowly 22 has more people shooting more rounds each and every day....they don't do it because they must, but do it for the pure fun of it....in most cases.

Now revolutionary is a pretty strong word.....lets look at this word

involving or causing a complete or dramatic change from a quick google def...but pretty much good for us.

Involving......I think this is where we need to focus.....and again it is not going to be...well.....very trendy.....and goes against what I personally really care for.

I would say at least in the US....if not the 22 it would be the 223.

Where would the gun market be without the 223 and the gun it brought to the masses....the AR.

I will leave it at that for you all to think about. What other cartridge has shaped the real history of the gun more so then the 223?
 
I'm going to vote for the 8x33mm Kurz. Most of the early smokeless high velocity rounds were copycats or parallel developments. I certainly can see the case for 8mm Lebel, but this round and the followers were inevitable given the evolving chemistry. The 8x33 was the round to feed a truly revolutionary doctrine in the infantry rifle that we still follow today and led to the winning powers of that war to ALL...Eventually...adopt something along the lines of the STG44 concept. It spawned the 7.62x39 in the Soviet union, and who could argue that the AK47 and derivatives are not revolutionary in more than one sense of the word??!!
 
.22LR SMOKELESS.

Sure .22 LR is older, but not the smokeless loads that really let folks shoot a lot with little maintenance and indoors. It put rifles into folks hands and let them shoot enough to gain skill and interest in other rifles

-kBob

Early smokeless .22 was the death of many a plinker. The barrel LOOKED clean but the chloride residue from "corrosive" priming with no BP fouling to dilute it or encourage prompt cleaning attacked the clean hot steel in a hurry. High ratio of primer to powder in the small case made it worse.
A lot of target shooters used Lesmok and King's Semi-smokeless and were still cleaning.
 
A 140 grain .53 BC spitzer going 2800 fps way back when????
A 140 grain 7mm bulet with a .530 ballistic coefficient "way back when????"?

Current Nosler Accubond 140's only manage .485. Even the super slippery Berger 140 grain VLD Hollow Point Boat Tail only gets a .510 BC.

Do you have a source for that data?
 
I would say the .22 rimfire for it's long history and volume of use, and center fire 7 Mm Mauser as it is the prototype of modern high velocity cartridges and it's long and successful history. It is the round that changed warfare forever with it's vastly superior ballistics over the .30-40 Krag and everything before it. Also the .303 British as the wounds were so devastating that international law banned expanding bullets for warfare. I can't pick just one.
 
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I'll say the .250-3000 Savage because:

1. It spawned the .300 Savage
2. That spawned the .308 Win, which is the greatest cartridge ever known to mankind ;)
 
In the United States, I would have to say the 30/06 and the .308. Most of our common rounds are based on them, necked up or down, and most new rounds are intended to duplicate their performance. There are others that should be considered, the 250-3000 Savage, the first to break 3000fps and the 300 Savage, the first short action round, to try to duplicate the 30/06 and what the 308 was based off. If you are really interested in this subject, read a little on Author Savage. He did a lot to modernize the rounds we know today and really did at the time he was doing it. He was a very interesting man and doesn’t get the credit he deserves for what he did. He was really ahead of his time.
 
Well, 150 years ago we already had metallic cartridges with center fire primers. So what’s the biggest changes been?

I’ll have to go with the .375 H&H Magnum, unless I was miss informed it was considered the first “magnum” and is was the first belted cartridge. Both of which took of rather well I’d say.

FWIW, I could be wrong on both counts, if I am someone lied to me or was wrong themselves, which is entirely possibly.
 
I'm going to vote for the 8x33mm Kurz. Most of the early smokeless high velocity rounds were copycats or parallel developments. I certainly can see the case for 8mm Lebel, but this round and the followers were inevitable given the evolving chemistry. The 8x33 was the round to feed a truly revolutionary doctrine in the infantry rifle that we still follow today and led to the winning powers of that war to ALL...Eventually...adopt something along the lines of the STG44 concept. It spawned the 7.62x39 in the Soviet union, and who could argue that the AK47 and derivatives are not revolutionary in more than one sense of the word??!!

I agree .... The 8X33 was certainly a game changer .. Pretty much set the bar for the future.. for the military...
 
I find it interesting that everyone in this thread is waxing romantic about the glorious 7x57, which, truly, is a good round, but yet that round has always had next to no popular acceptance in the US, except for maybe a relative few sporterized Mausers made from Span-am war booty in the first decade of the 20th century. Further, I bet no more than one or two posters in the thread actually own or regularly shoot a rifle chambered in the cartridge, so it’s a bit hard to take seriously the claims of its miraculous and still-totally-relevant ballistics. It’s a good round, in the same way that .30-06 is good, but neither are truly groundbreaking in and of themselves. The 7x57 has a lot of myths attached to it from Spanish American war experience, which arguably has more to do with postwar politics and possibly the military deficiencies of the non-clip-loading Krag-Jorgensen rifle, than any serious ballistic advantages of 7x57 Mauser.

The .30-40 Krag adopted in 1892 was the USA’s first smokeless military round. The 7x57 Mauser was designed and adopted around the same time. (Both were preceded by the 8mm Mauser, the .308 7.5x55 Swiss bullet, which has a claim to be the first true .30cal round, and even the Russian 7.62x54R adopted in 1891.) The .30-30 was our first commercial-market smokeless round, in 1894. The latter did a great deal to popularize smokeless powder for the general public.

The 8x57 revamped for Spitzer bullets in the early years of the 20th century (1903) forced the US (and everyone else) to do the same thing. It supplied the name of the pointed bullet. But even though it got the press, the 8x50R Lebel Balle D of 1898 was the “first” adopted.

One round nobody has mentioned yet is the venerable .43 Spanish Reformado chambering, which both increased the ballistic efficiency of the .43 Spanish black powder round, and was the first bullet to use a jacket (of brass) instead of just plain lead or a paper patch.

So, if we’re talking technical features that were groundbreaking, we’d have to pick from the 8x50 Lebel (1886, first smokeless) .43 Reformado (1889, jacketed) or possibly the Patrone 88 of the Gew 88 “Commission Rifle,” which used an 8mm projectile and was also allegedly jacketed in its first form, the 7.5x55 (1889, paper patched .308 size) or the 8x50R Lebel or 8x57S Mauser (spitzer.) Between these cartridges, the modern small bore, smokeless, ballistically-efficient cartridge came to be. Arguably, the cartridge that really summed up all these developments and went on to worldwide usage, both sporting and military, was the US .30-06, adopted in 1906. This cartridge also has the distinction of being chambered in the first generally issued and successful rifle caliber semi-automatic battle rifle, the Garand.

All in all, a tough question to answer decisively.
 
Being first at something is of course significant. And incremental changes are important. I think revolutionary means it changed things significantly enough world wide to affect nearly every cartridge after it which is why I chose the 7 MM Mauser. I agree the 30-06 is a greater success a deserved mention. But without the lessons of the Spanish American war of the value of the modern high velocity round vastly superior to the 30-40 Krag who knows if the incrementally better 30-06 would be developed as soon. To argue that the 30-40 krag was the same as the 7MM Mauser in battle effectiveness is clearly not true.
 
I'll hang my hat on the .222 Remington which was developed in 1050 by Mike Walker as a brand new designed cartridge. It became the round to have for varmint shooting and then became the darling of the bench rest crowd holding the record for the smallest 5 shot group at 100 yards for many many years. From the .222 came the .222 Magnum, the .223, the .243 and possibly many more.
 
Being first at something is of course significant. And incremental changes are important. I think revolutionary means it changed things significantly enough world wide to affect nearly every cartridge after it which is why I chose the 7 MM Mauser. I agree the 30-06 is a greater success a deserved mention. But without the lessons of the Spanish American war of the value of the modern high velocity round vastly superior to the 30-40 Krag who knows if the incrementally better 30-06 would be developed as soon. To argue that the 30-40 krag was the same as the 7MM Mauser in battle effectiveness is clearly not true.

Nobody says the .303 Brit is a slouch, and the .303 and .30-40 are basically the same, ballistically. The .30-40, however, to believe the myths about it, is about equal to a Brown Bess. In its period loading it propelled a 220gr bullet at about 2000fps, compared to the 7x57’s original loading, of a 172gr bullet at about 2200fps. In practical terms at actual combat distances, there’s not a lot of difference except on a ballistics table -at least, if soldiers are trained in how to aim their rifles. The bigger problem in the Spanish American war was that most US soldiers in that conflict were still armed with Trapdoor Springfields, were equipped with equipment left over from the Civil War, and had little training. But the Krag (and its round) made a nice scapegoat because the military wanted to justify upgrading to a Mauser-style system and it’s easier to blame equipment to take the attention off poor leadership.
 
Right, which is why it was able to spawn the .308. ;)

The 7x57 was so far ahead of it's time that it's ballistics are still relevant today. One could argue that even the beloved .308 is still not the round that the 7x57 is.

A 140 grain .53 BC spitzer going 2800 fps way back when????

The original loading was a 173 grain round nose bullet at 2200 fps. The lighter spitzer loadings didn't follow till near WW1. I would have to say the Lebel was the most revolutionary being that it introduced both smokeless powder and the spitzer boat tail bullet.
 
22 LR. Cheap, accurate, easy to shoot. Good for hunting small game and not a horrible choice for self defense.
 
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