Must see video - 5th Amendment Lecture - Don't Talk to Police

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SKILCZ

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The following link is a lecture given at a law school regarding talking to police and why you should never do it. It's really an eye-opener. It's a little long, probably close to an hour, but it's worth it.

http://www.regent.edu/admin/media/schlaw/LawPreview/

It may sound extreme or over the top to never talk to police, but once you watch the lecture, you'll understand why. The first half entails an attorney going into why never to talk to police. During the second half, a police officer comes up and says he agrees with everything the attorney said, and he goes on for another half hour or so about his personal experiences and why the lawyer is right.
 
I've seen the video, its link was passed out in a VCDL email a little while back. I do not remember seeing it on here, and am glad that it did get posted here. It is an absolute MUST SEE. Another four that are along similar lines and I believe has been posted here before is at flexyourrights.org.

A warm welcome to THR, SKILCZ. We hope you find a home here.
 
Works for me, and that is awesome. For most of us, talking to police is like going unarmed into a gun fight - you can't win.
 
And if you say nothing, you will probably be talking with your lawyer . . . . . . from jail. :uhoh:

I'll agree totally with saying VERY little until you have the advice of counsel, but a portion of how you will be treated is based on IF you are considered "cooperative" and saying nothing, is most likely not going to be considered cooperative.

Don't forget that the BG can (and most likely will) lie, and there you stand, saying nothing?

Each of you needs to do what you think best, but I'll still tell a summary of the truth to the PD/SO. I still believe I have better chances that way.
 
and yet, every lawyer in the country will tell you otherwise.

I once hired an attorney and this is what he told me: "You are paying me $200 an hour for my advice, so here it is: Shut up. Let me do the talking."

Remember, what your attorney says for you can't be used against you in a court of law, what you say CAN and WILL be. That isn't to say that you should be rude about it. Just tell the police that you want an attorney present before you answer questions. By law they cannot use that against you, having an attorney is your RIGHT.
 
Speaking as an officer I'll say this, cooperation WILL get you a break in court.

I'll testify to the fact that you were cooperative to a judge and I'll reccommend to the prosecutor that a deal be cut if you were cooperative.

If you try to play stupid, however, we'll push for everything we can.
 
Remember, what your attorney says for you can't be used against you in a court of law, what you say CAN and WILL be.

divemedic You hit the nail on the head!!! Being cooperative, but offering no more info than necessary is wise.
 
Here is how I learned it. Police are trained to do two things (1) help victims, and (2) apprehend bad guys. When they arrive at a scene, they need to do two things very quickly--find a victim and find a bad guy. If the real bad guy convinces the officer that he is the victim, then you have just become the bad guy. You need to say enough to convince the cop you are the victim, THEN shut up. The advice given to me was to tell the officer something like: "All I know is that guy was trying to kill me, I was afraid for my life, I defended myself. I think I need to go to the hospital. I can't really talk about it right now. Please take me to the hospital."
 
Interesting ... So, relying on the constitutionally guaranteed right to remain silent can result in a harsher jail term ? If I 'cooperate' the police won't punish me as much ? Doesn't seem right. I'm sure that's how it works and I hope I'm never in such a position, but I will remain silent. No need to help convict myself.
 
Interesting ... So, relying on the constitutionally guaranteed right to remain silent can result in a harsher jail term ?

You're looking at it backwards. It isn't a harsher jail sentence for not cooperating.

It an EASIER one for cooperating.

Get it? It why we call it a plea DEAL. See? You getting a DEAL.

You actually deserve the harsh sentence but since you owned up to the crime, showed remorse, assisted us in capturing your scumbag friends, we'll lighten the sentence you actually deserve.

Of course most of this is avoided simply by not breaking the law.
 
Of course most of this is avoided simply by not breaking the law.

Or keeping your mouth shut when talking to LE.

You have it in your head, as it seems many people in LE do, that the simple fact that you are called on site means that there MUST be a guilty party.

It doesn't always work that way. Not everyone the police talk to is actually guilty. I know that might come as a shock but it's true.......
There is greater chance of you ending up in trouble by talking than keeping your mouth shut.

Certainly a large percentage of people LE deal with are in fact guilty of something, but not all.

The fact that the attorneys are saying be quiet and the cops are saying talk your head off is interesting at least.
 
Will review the video later, but in the meantime, this might be reasonable advice:

http://geocities.com/northstarzone/COPS.html

HOW TO HANDLE THE POLICE
When dealing with the police, keep your hands in view and don't make sudden movements. Avoid passing behind them. Nervous cops are dangerous cops. Also, never touch the police or their equipment (vehicles, flashlights, animals, etc.) - you can get beat up and charged with assault. The police do not decide your charges; they can only make recommendations. The prosecutor is the only person who can actually charge you. Remember this the next time the cops start rattling off all the charges they're supposedly "going to give you."

Interrogation isn't always bright lights and rubber hoses - usually it's just a conversation. Whenever the cops ask you anything besides your name and address, it's legally safest to (respectfully) say these Magic Words: "I am going to remain silent. I want to see a lawyer." This invokes the rights which protect you from interrogation. When you say this, the cops (and all other law enforcement officials) are legally required to stop asking you questions. They probably won't stop, so just repeat the Magic Words or remain silent until they catch on. Remember, anything you say to the authorities can and will be used against you and your friends in court. There's no way to predict what information the police might try to use or how they'd use it. Plus, the police often misquote or lie altogether about what was said. So say only the Magic Words and let all the cops and witnesses know that this is your policy. Make sure that when you're arrested with other people, the rest of the group knows the Magic Words and promises to use them. One of the jobs of cops is to get information out of people, and they usually don't have any scruples about how they do it. Cops are legally allowed to lie when they're investigating, and they are trained to be manipulative. The only thing you should say to cops, other than identifying yourself, is the Magic Words: "I am going to remain silent. I want to see a lawyer." Here are some lies they will tell you:

"You're not a suspect - just help us understand what happened here and then you can go." "If you don't answer my questions, I'll have no choice but to arrest you. Do you want to go to jail?" "If you don't answer my questions, I'm going to charge you with resisting arrest." "All of your friends have cooperated and we let them go home. You're the only one left." Cops are sneaky buggers and there are lots of ways they can trick you into talking. Here are some scams they'll pull: Good Cop/ Bad Cop: Bad cop is aggressive and menacing, while good cop is nice, friendly, and familiar (usually good cop is the same race and gender as you). The idea is bad cop scares you so bad you are desperately looking for a friend. Good cop is that friend. The cops will tell you that your friends ratted on you so that you will snitch on them. Meanwhile, they tell your friends the same thing. If anyone breaks and talks, you all go down. The cops will tell you that they have all the evidence they need to convict you and that if you "take responsibility" and confess the judge will be impressed by your honesty and go easy on you. What they really mean is: "we don't have enough evidence yet, please confess." Jail is a very isolating and intimidating place. It is really easy to believe what the cops tell you. Insist upon speaking with a lawyer before you answer any questions or sign anything. The Golden Rule: Never trust a cop.

The police do not have to read you your rights (also known as the Miranda warnings). Miranda applies when there is (a) an interrogation (b) by a police officer of other agent of law enforcement (c) while the suspect is in police custody (you do not have to be formally arrested to be "in custody"). Even when all these conditions are met, the police intentionally violate Miranda. And though your rights have been violated, what you say can be used against you. For this reason, it is better not to wait for the cops â¤" you know what your rights are, so you can invoke them by saying the Magic Words, "I am going to remain silent. I want to see a lawyer." If you've been arrested and realize that you have started answering questions, don't panic. Just re-invoke your rights by saying the Magic Words again. Don't let them trick you into thinking that because you answered some of their questions, you have to answer all of them.

There are three basic types of encounters with the police: Conversation, Detention, and Arrest. When the cops are trying to get information, but don't have enough evidence to detain or arrest you, they'll try to weasel some information out of you. They may call this a "casual encounter" or a "friendly conversation". If you talk to them, you may give them the information they need to arrest you or your friends. In most situations, it's better and safer not to talk to cops. Police can detain you only if they have reasonable suspicion (see below) that you are involved in a crime. Detention means that, though you aren't arrested, you can't leave. Detention is supposed to last a short time and they aren't supposed to move you. During detention, the police can pat you down and go into your bag to make sure you don't have any weapons. They aren't supposed to go into your pockets unless they feel a weapon. If the police are asking questions, ask if you are being detained. If not, leave and say nothing else to them. If you are being detained, you may want to ask why. Then you should say the Magic Words: "I am going to remain silent. I want a lawyer" and nothing else. A detention can easily turn into arrest. If the police are detaining you and they get information that you are involved in a crime, they will arrest you, even if it has nothing to do with your detention. For example, if someone gets pulled over for speeding (detained) and the cop sees drugs in the car, the cops will arrest her for possession of the drugs even though it has nothing to do with her getting pulled over. Cops have two reasons to detain you: 1) they are writing you a citation (a traffic ticket, for example), or 2) they want to arrest you but they don't have enough information yet to do so.

Police can arrest you only if they have probable cause (see below) that you are involved in a crime. When you are arrested, the cops can search you to the skin and go through you car and any belongings. By law, an officer strip searching you must be the same gender as you. If the police come to your door with an arrest warrant, go outside and lock the door behind you. Cops are allowed to search any room you go into, so don't go back into the house for any reason. If they have an arrest warrant, hiding won't help because they are allowed to force their way in if they know you are there. It's usually better to just go with them without giving them an opportunity to search. Reasonable suspicion must be based on more than a hunch - cops must be able to put their suspicion into words. For example, cops can't just stop someone and say, "She looked like she was up to something." They need to be more specific, like, "She was standing under the overpass staring up at some graffiti that hadn't been there 2 hours ago. She had the same graffiti pattern written on her backpack. I suspected that she had put up the graffiti." Cops need more proof to say they have a probable cause than to say they have a reasonable suspicion. For example, "A store owner called to report someone matching her description tagging a wall across the street. As I drove up to the store, I saw her running away spattered with paint and carrying a spray can in her hand."

Never consent to a search! If the police try to search your house, car, backpack, pockets, etc. say the Magic Words 2: "I do not consent to this search." This may not stop them from forcing their way in and searching anyway, but if they search you illegally, they probably won't be able to use the evidence against you in court. You have nothing to lose from refusing to consent to a search and lots to gain. Do not physically resist cops when they are trying to search because you could get hurt and charged with resisting arrest or assault. Just keep repeating the Magic Words 2 so that the cops and all witnesses know that this is your policy. Be careful about casual consent. That is, if you are stopped by the cops and you get out of the car but don't close the door, they can search the car and claim that they though you were indicating consent by leaving the door ajar. Also, if you say, "I'd rather you didn't search," they can claim that you were reluctantly giving them permission to search. Always just say the Magic Words 2: "I do not consent to this search." If the cops have a search warrant, nothing changes - it's legally safest to just say the Magic Words 2. Again, you have nothing to lose from refusing to consent to a search, and lots to gain if the search warrant is incorrect or invalid in some way. If they do have a search warrant, ask to read it. A valid warrant must have a recent date (usually not more than a couple of weeks), the correct address, and a judge's or magistrate's signature; some warrants indicate the time of day the cops can search. You should say the Magic Words 2 whether or not the search warrant appears correct. The same goes for any government official who tries to search you, your belongings, or your house.

Undercover cops sometimes infiltrate political organizations. They can lie about being cops even if asked directly. Undercover cops can even break the law (narcs get hazard pay for doing drugs as part of their cover) and encourage others to do so as well. This is not legally entrapment. The essence of the Magic Words "I'm keeping my mouth shut until I talk to a lawyer" not only applies to police but also to the FBI, INS, CIA, even IRS. If you want to be nice and polite, tell them that you don't wish to speak with them until you've spoken with your lawyer, or that you won't answer questions without a lawyer present. If you are being investigated as a result of your political activity, you can call the National Lawyers Guild at (415) 582-1055; they will help you find a lawyer you can talk to. Whenever you interact with or observe the police, always write down what is said and who said it. Write down the cops' names and badge numbers and the names and contact information of any witnesses. Record everything that happens.

If you are expecting a lot of police contact, get in the habit of carrying a small tape recorder and a camera with you. Be careful - cops don't like people taking notes, especially if the cops are planning on doing something illegal. Observing them and documenting their actions may have very different results; for example, it may cause them to respond aggressively, or it may prevent them from abusing you or your friends. People deal with police in all kinds of circumstances. You must make an individual decision about how you will interact with law enforcement. It is important to know your legal rights, but it is also important for you to decide when and how to use them in order to best protect yourself.
 
Actually, the vast majority of my calls involves no guilty party.

The VAST VAST majority, in fact. Ask any other cop and they'll tell you the same. Most of the time when we're called on scene it involves two adults acting like 6 year olds and our job consists of nicely telling them to grow up and stop acting like idiots.

So, no, we're not always looking for someone to arrest.

I know that might come as a shock but it's true.......
 
MoM said:
The VAST VAST majority, in fact. Ask any other cop and they'll tell you the same. Most of the time when we're called on scene it involves two adults acting like 6 year olds and our job consists of nicely telling them to grow up and stop acting like idiots.

A LEO buddy of mine told me once, "Some days I feel like a babysitter for adults. Arrghh!"
 
Some of your advice is great.

When dealing with the police, keep your hands in view and don't make sudden movements. Avoid passing behind them. Nervous cops are dangerous cops. Also, never touch the police or their equipment

Some of your advice is dead wrong.

The police do not decide your charges...The prosecutor is the only person who can actually charge you.

And some of your advice honestly sucks and appears came from a black box with Sony or Samsung or Panasonic on the front.

If you are expecting a lot of police contact, get in the habit of carrying a small tape recorder and a camera with you.

Make sure that when you're arrested with other people, the rest of the group knows the Magic Words and promises to use them.

The cops will tell you that they have all the evidence they need to convict you and that if you "take responsibility" and confess the judge will be impressed by your honesty and go easy on you. What they really mean is: "we don't have enough evidence yet, please confess."

All your advice is geared to helping people break the law and get away with it. You seem to have forgotten the part where they shouldn't be stealing, or raping, or killing.

It really is the easiest way to avoid police contacts.

Oh, and one other thing, one of your "friends" WILL rat on you for a lighter sentence. There is no honor among thieves.
 
All your advice is geared to helping people break the law and get away with it. You seem to have forgotten the part where they shouldn't be stealing, or raping, or killing.

It really is the easiest way to avoid police contacts.
Its also geared toward those who have not committed any crime but have somehow managed to attract police attention anyway.

While it is true that not committing crimes will reduce the chances of negative contacts with police it will not eliminate them. And the primary (but by no means only) reason police contact citizens is to find some reason to charge them with a crime. One must protect one's self.
 
And the primary (but by no means only) reason police contact citizens is to find some reason to charge them with a crime.

So I just walk around trying to throw everyone in jail. That's it, huh?

Just trying to find SOME reason to charge SOMEBODY with SOMETHING.

Yeah, that's me alright...
 
And the primary (but by no means only) reason police contact citizens is to find some reason to charge them with a crime.

So I just walk around trying to throw everyone in jail. That's it, huh?

Just trying to find SOME reason to charge SOMEBODY with SOMETHING.

Yeah, that's me alright...
Are you suggesting most of your contacts with citizens do not involve you looking for something you can charge them with?

You just pull people over at random because you are bored and want to have a friendly chat?
 
If I am innocent, why would I be interested in any potential future deal?
You are obviously guilty or the cops would not be interested in you in the first place. Take the deal.
 
Is it fair to say the police are looking to find the guilty party ? This is a good thing. But, the police perspective starts with assuming everyone is suspect and narrowing it down to the bad guy by the process of elimination.

My perspective is I'm innocent and don't want to give them anything that might be construed I'm the bad guy.

So, let the lawyers do the talking. Innocent people should not be intimidated into giving up their rights. Yes, this could make the investigative job more difficult, so be it.
 
Maybe I'm the anomaly.

I never really thought about it but maybe the rest of the policing world snickers behind my back and says things like, "Look at this guy. He hasn't killed even ONE innocent grandmother this month. Somebody actually has to work with this guy?"
 
I read all these worries about police, and most of them are way different from my encounters or observations of the problems of others.

Basically, common sense says to not run your mouth beyond basic info. Sure, what you say "can and will" be used. Maybe against you, maybe not.

In the aftermath of any violent confrontation, it is commonly difficult for someone coming to the scene to readily understand how it all happened. A brief explanatory statement is reasonable. Babbling on and on with contradictory statements is stupid--and the more talk, the more opportunity to say something stupid. Brevity is Golden; engage brain first, before talking.

Regardless of who asks a question, I guarantee you that refusal to answer will create suspicion. Doesn't matter if it's a cop or your mommy.

Art
 
The best answer I've heard under the circumstances Art Eatman outlined (think I heard it here, in fact) is, "I want to cooperate and will be happy to do so, 24 hours after I've had a chance to talk to my lawyer."
 
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