Must see video - 5th Amendment Lecture - Don't Talk to Police

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Only advice I can give is to be a "grey man" to avoid police contact and respectful if you do have police contact. I watch what I say and how I say it, but I do that with everyone.

I provide my own protection. The police don't "protect" in any real sense. That's propaganda. They couldn't possibly.

The presence of law enforcement in general provides some deterent effect I suppose, encouraging people to comply, etc.

As far as the services police provide, I am grateful for their "first response" services, etc.
 
Say I am wrong. Call me a liar and prove it!
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You're absolutely right.

Criminals have some many protections in place under the Constitution, state and federal laws that the entire system is skewed heavily in favor of the defendant, as it should be.

So don't you whine to me about unfair. You wouldn't know unfair if it was eating Fruit Loops on your front porch.

Let me go ahead and break out my list of people who speak without knowing their subject.......there ya go. Nascar Man is officially on the list.
 
To any angry LEO participating here...

For those of us in THIS forum, especially civilians I'm going to assume that we're all law abiding peace loving gun lovers. For our purposes, this video USUALLY shouldn't apply EXCEPT if we end up defending ourselves against a bad guy.

If that happens, the police will definitely have some questions. There is no doubt in my mind that a law abiding, innocent defender wants to be as cooperative as possible. That said, I'm scared as hell of BEING innocent and being convicted of something. If I'm innocent, I could care less about a DEAL. I just want to go home and clean the bad guy's blood off my floor, and join my family in post traumatic counseling.

I have friends and family in law enforcement. Frankly, it's a really tough job where you get to see the bad side of everybody. Long term, that changes people. Anytime somebody chooses a career that tough (LEO, Firefighters, Soldiers, etc.) and my family benefits, I can't help but appreciate them. BUT I still don't want to be an innocent man released from prison after 12 years on DNA evidence.
 
Armed bear said it best....

Nobody had any intention of doing anything but fill out a report.
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2 cars broke into, never heard a word from cops after initial contact.....
house broke into, never heard a word....
run over while on my motorcycle... while I'm in surgery, the cop hands my wife my drivers license and says " it was a hit and run, Oh well" (witnessed by 3 people.)
3 different agencies, so it's not just some bad department

That being said, BE WARY OF ANYTHING A LAWYER SAYS TOO. Of course a lawyer wants you to hire him for 200 an hour before you talk to a cop!

Is anyone here actually saying the lawyers aren't self serving egomaniacs who won't do ANYTHING. How many people ever come away from a meeting with a lawyer feeling like they aren't getting screwed? Lawyers are the reason everything in this country is as messed up as it is....
 
Frankly, it's a really tough job where you get to see the bad side of everybody.
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I'm going to say this and be done with it.


I've met good LEO's and I've met bad ones.


I find it ABSOLUTELY AMAZING how we give allowances to LEO's for becoming hardened for seeing the lesser of mankind.

And then-- at the same time-- we call any concern any may have with SOME LEO's as Cop-Bashing.

I'm tired of it.


Here's a reality check for everyone. If you don't know what you are dealing with, what is wrong with being cautious? Tell me that. I really want to know.

I don't open my home up to the Crips and Bloods. I don't open my home up to the Allstate agent wanting to sell me a Whole-Life Policy. I don't automatically believe that a LEO is one of the "good guys" because you tell me to.


MasterofMalice, you and I have had a number of discussions in the past. Sometimes I agree with you, and other times I don't. I have no concerns that you are one of the "good ones" but I dislike your propensity to defend LEO's across the board.


I'll tell you what... here's a deal for you....

I will absolutely trust EVERY action of LEO's if you can convince me of the morality and ethics of a few of my past experiences.

Understand this. I am not some counter-culture rebel-without-a-cause. I don't do looking for trouble.


Even so, I had a LEO (MS State Trooper) literally pull me out of the window of my car that throw me into the highway during a stop when I was a senior in HS. My crime? I was going 66 mph in a 55 mph zone.

Oh but that happened to a young punk kid, right?

Well, how about the MS State Trooper that I had to go to the Lt. about just 2 years ago for sexually harassing my wife by stopping her up to 3 times a week and trying to get her to have an affair-- I had to threaten them with a lawsuit to stop this man.


Or how about the Sheriff we had who was on the payroll of local drug dealers. It was so well-known that when the Feds came in to bust the drug-dealer, they had to cut the locals out of the loop and had the sheriff under observation to insure that he would not call and warn the drug dealer.


You convice me the the above three LEO's were honest, just, "stand-up" guys, and I'll drop ALL of my concerns.


Now, granted... those three are a minority of the LEO's that I know. The rest are great. But I've shown that there is no homogeneous ethic among LEO's. Why exactly am I to assume that they ALL are just good guys when I've PERSONALLY see otherwise-- even in my ordinary life?


Who exactly am I to believe? You or my lying eyes?


-- John
 
MarcusWendt said:
...in reality they still all the cops when their car is stolen, their daddy is beating their mommy up or someone breaks into their home.
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In some jurisdictions for some crimes, not reporting the crime is a crime in and of itself.

So, even if they are a rabid LEO despiser, if they want to stay on the right side of the law, they will be obligated to report the crime.

In other cases, the aforementioned hypothetical LEO-suspicious bloke has signed an agreement stating they will report a crime or other infraction.

===============

As to the OP, I think Art's response is wisest and grants the LEO a similar level of courtesy one would grant any other random person.

Of course, circumstances may dictate that you **** and call your lawyer.

It is best to keep G Washington's advice at hand:
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
 
Who exactly am I to believe? You or my lying eyes?
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Some people suck, cops included. I personally know some ****bag cops and we don't trust them either.

I've personally reigned in a few.

I don't support all cops, but I've noticed that on this forum some of you guys stick up for the scummiest criminals based to two sentences that some distant news agency made up and probably got wrong.

Check again, I don't outright support cops on this board, I generally inject doubt into the "victims" story, just trying to show you guys it isn't always cut and dry.

The exception to this is the incident with Shivers getting shot, and if no one has figured out why I'm making specific statements and objections yet, maybe they never will.
 
I think part of the problem is that people who are not doing anything wrong, or mala in se at least, will step on their own you-know-whats in speaking with the police and find themselves arrested for running their mouths.

Always Eddie Haskell up around the police, but never, ever, ever talk to them.

"Am I free to go?"
"I wish to speak with my attorney at once."

Excellent lecture. Thanks for posting the You Tube selection.
 
You have to admit that if you follow the advice of the guy in the video you will come out ahead in the end.
 
Understand this. I am not some counter-culture rebel-without-a-cause. I don't do looking for trouble.
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But MarcusWendt wants to create the false dichotomy that either you are "some counter-culture rebel-without-a-cause" or you're not "walking the walk."

Furthermore, it may be that real criminals have the deck stacked in their favor. However, those of us who are NOT real criminals have the legal deck stacked so that we can likely be "busted" for something any time, any where. See the video for an example, but there are also thousands of pages of examples in statutory law.

It almost seems like the point of all these laws is to make damn sure that any of us can be convicted whenever the "powers that be" feel the need. And the cops are the eyes, ears and claws of that system. Those of us who are not criminals can really have our lives trashed by a relatively minor conviction, so such a threat can be used to exert power over us more effectively than a real criminal.

Ever even try to understand law when you read it? Professionals sometimes argue cases about what it means, then judges decide what they think it means after long deliberation. What does that mean? The way it's written, and especially with legal precedent to consider, nobody really knows for sure sometimes -- not even people who have studied law.

A well-educated, highly-intelligent person cannot reasonably be expected to pick up a copy of the laws that govern him/her and understand what they mean in detail. The average person? Forget it.

Sure, we all "get" that murder is illegal. I'm talking about the rest of the bookshelf.

Read through California gun laws some time... The problem is not that I try to break any.

Don't forget Martha Stewart, either. She did nothing illegal. She went to jail for a few words she said to investigators. She was set up. Now I'm not a famous person with a limited likeability factor, so that probably won't ever happen to me. But if there were any reason for someone in power to want to do that, I'm screwed. And you're screwed. We're all screwed.

The best protection? Shut up, call a good attorney and don't pretend the cop's job is to be our friend.
 
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I've been good, I guess. I've only had three encounters with the police; all were traffic incidents. One was for a taillight that wasn't working and the officer helped me by holding his flashlight while I changed the bulb. (very cool)
One was being removed from the car and spread out across the trunk while his partner checked my car after seeing an unloaded revolver laying on the front seat. I was going to my job as a security guard and was in uniform. I was stopped originally for failure to signal when changing lanes. (not so cool, but no harm-no foul)
One was having an officer writing tickets (yes, plural) for equipment violations while standing over me after I was hit by a truck and thrown from my motorcycle and being attended to by EMT's for a nearly severed arm and broken leg. (definitely not cool at all)

To paraphrase Forrest Gump's momma: Police are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are going to get.
 
The exception to this is the incident with Shivers getting shot, and if no one has figured out why I'm making specific statements and objections yet, maybe they never will.
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OK MoM, I'll bite, were you there when Det. Shivers attempted to serve the Warrant to Fredericks?
If so, were you there when they "staked out" his place?
If not, then you really don't "know" any more than the rest of us do you?

Please enlighten me.
 
All it takes is watching a few episodes of "COPS" to ascertain these incontrovertible facts:

Cops lie like rugs to suspects to get them to talk and admit something which they "can and will" and do use against them. They are constantly saying things like "just cooperate and tell us what you know and it will go much easier for you". This is a baldfaced lie, because everything you say will later be gleefully reiterated by the officer in the report and in court, and in making the arrest decision - often without the much-sought-after admission, there can be no arrest. With it, there is. That is a cop's idea of "going easier on you" - arresting you when they couldn't have arrested you, had you shut up. Anyone who has watched many episodes of COPS has seen this repeated hundreds of times. Cops LOVE admissions. So do juries. Be cooperative, but do not say anything substantive. Only DAs can make deals, NOT cops, so you may or may not get anything in return for an admission to a cop. Later when talking with the DA, you can actually broker a deal, where you have actual bargaining power - "OK, if I were to say X, then could I get Y deal?". Cops tell you that they'll go easy on you, but there's no guarantees at a minimum, and most often, it will go worse for you if you talk.

However, those of us who are NOT real criminals have the legal deck stacked so that we can likely be "busted" for something any time, any where. See the video for an example, but there are also thousands of pages of examples in statutory law.

It almost seems like the point of all these laws is to make damn sure that any of us can be convicted whenever the "powers that be" feel the need. And the cops are the eyes, ears and claws of that system. Those of us who are not criminals can really have our lives trashed by a relatively minor conviction, so such a threat can be used to exert power over us more effectively than a real criminal.
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My ears are ringing from that nail being struck so squarely and hard!
 
the lawyer needs to learn to slow down. I'm with the cop on that one, I can't talk that fast.
 
Some people suck, cops included. I personally know some ****bag cops and we don't trust them either.

I've personally reigned in a few.
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So... that means what? you just verified that there are bad cops but still expect us to bare our souls to your brother officers.

Many of us carry a concealed weapon for the extremely rare eventuality that we might need it to defend ourselves.
I see nothing wrong with exercising our constitutional rights that allow us not to incriminate ourselves in the very rare eventuality that we run into one of those "****bag cops" that you didn't reign in.
 
Do a Google search on "police interrogation techniques"

Then tell me if you believe Master of Malice when he says he'll recommend that the DA go easy on you. Once you have confessed, they don't have to go easy on you. You have screwed yourself, and they will drive it in as deep as they can. They cut a plea deal because they can't make the over-charges stick. Remember, the Miranda Caveats say "Anything you say can be used against you." It does not say "unless you're innocent." In fact an innocent man has even better reason to remain silent, because the only evidence against him would be what he creates by speaking to the Cops/persecuting shysters. Also remember that Justice and THE LAW have nothing to do with each other. Am I a cynic? You bet, and unapologetically so.
 
Always Eddie Haskell up
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Funny. Some kids on this forum are wondering what that means.
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Hey. Just because I'm 20 doesn't mean I haven't seen Leave it to Beaver!

Also, there is no reason to talk to the police.. ever. Their one and only job is to find some dirt on you. Don't let them try to convince you otherwise.
 
Sounds pretty paranoid to me.

When I was just out of high school, I got caught doing a bit of minor vandalism with some friends. We told the truth and nothing happened other than some cleaning up and apologizing.

And more recently, I have been pulled over 5 times while carrying. Twice for me speeding, once while in a car when a friend was speeding, and twice at random DUI checkpoints (I live in a college town).

I've told the truth about what we were doing, my weapon, the speeding, EVERYTHING. And not once did I get so much as a ticket.

You people have some pretty cracked out ideas about police. In my experiences, I have found that simply being a polite person, and yes, telling the truth gets you on their good side far better than clamming up and acting like you're being oppressed.


Police are not out there to make people's lives miserable for fun. I know you won't believe it, but they are actually doing what they do to get real criminal away from the rest of us. If they are talking to you, it's because they suspect you are a criminal. If you're not, simply show them you're not by being polite, honest, and forthcoming. Once they see that you are not one of their targets, and continuing to talk to you is a waste of time, they'll leave. It's always worked for me.

YOU are your own worst enemy. Not the police. The cold attitude you get from them is simply being returned. Act like an a##hat, and you'll get treated like an a##hat.
 
I'm sorry that you consider practicing a God given right is being an 'a##hat'...
 
Kurtmax,

I agree 100% with you statement:

I'm sorry that you consider practicing a God given right is being an 'a##hat'...
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Furthermore, I would like to reiterate a statement concening the Fifth Amendment which is the opinion of the Supreme Court of the United States in "Ullmann v. United States": (http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/htm...0_0422_ZO.html)

"Too many, even those who should be better advised, view this privilege as a shelter for wrongdoers. They too readily assume that those who invoke it are either guilty of crime or commit perjury in claiming the privilege. Such a view does scant honor to the patriots who sponsored the Bill of Rights as a condition to acceptance of the Constitution by the ratifying States. The Founders of the Nation were not naive or disregardful of the interests of justice. "

So...anyone who believes in the Fifth Amendment is an A##hat? You mean like those A##hats Adams, Jefferson, Franklin and Madison - those guys we know as the "Founding Fathers" of this nation?

NASCAR
 
this is kind of funny due to the fact people i guess seem to think that the police have to tell you the truth,lolget it threrw your head,they will tell you anything to get you to say what they want to hear,do the smart thing and talk to your lawyer first,being nervious and saying the wrong thing will get you in troublefirst second you are answering questions about a crime,the next you are in hand cuffs
 
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