Walt Sherrill
Member
New dealer. (One who has good sense.)
My dealer says CZ75 "s are crap !
- Thread starter bfox
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WildAlaska, I meet few men that have smaller hands than I do, and with a proper grip none have had a problem with the CZ-75. FWIW, I am 5'8" with wide hands and short fingers, my hands overall are small for men and about average for most women and quite small overall.
I have been up against the 'small hand' deal for my entire life, the CZ-75 is one of the few guns that does NOT penalize me for my hand size.
Maybe you need to try some new grips?
I have been up against the 'small hand' deal for my entire life, the CZ-75 is one of the few guns that does NOT penalize me for my hand size.
Maybe you need to try some new grips?
Gunsnrovers
Member
I will 2nd better grips on the CZ helping.
I've got small paws and the CZ felt large UNTIL I got my grips from Hakan in the mail. Wow. Big difference.
I've got small paws and the CZ felt large UNTIL I got my grips from Hakan in the mail. Wow. Big difference.
dairycreek
Member
My dealer says that CZ's are great!
My dealer is a retired military shooting instructor. My dealer is also a LEO who shoots competition and wins. My dealer says that CZ's are among the best made firearms in the world. My dealer is smarter than your dealer. Nah. nah, nah, nah, nah! Good shooting
My dealer is a retired military shooting instructor. My dealer is also a LEO who shoots competition and wins. My dealer says that CZ's are among the best made firearms in the world. My dealer is smarter than your dealer. Nah. nah, nah, nah, nah! Good shooting
Wildalaska
member
HS Ive owned probably 6 of em at various tiomes...cuz I like the way they look, I like the Peterson rails, I like the DA/SA trigger when worked, they are sturdy...
They dont fit my hand (its a complaint I hear quite a bit),,,
Its not the grip width (altho I have screwed with differentygrips ) its the legnth of pull in DA mode...interstingly enough Tanfgolio clones dont bother me...either the trigger is set further back in the frame or curved different, or the top of the frame is a little narrower...dunno,,,,
Always said that if they made a "short trigger" for the CZs I would get one again (hell I will get one anyway again sooner or later...)
Anyway not bad guns (though a bit too heavy), just dont fit me and toehrs I talk too..
Plus its not a High Power...ever hear of someone that that didnt fit?
WildmanlystrongyetdelicatehandsAlaska
They dont fit my hand (its a complaint I hear quite a bit),,,
Its not the grip width (altho I have screwed with differentygrips ) its the legnth of pull in DA mode...interstingly enough Tanfgolio clones dont bother me...either the trigger is set further back in the frame or curved different, or the top of the frame is a little narrower...dunno,,,,
Always said that if they made a "short trigger" for the CZs I would get one again (hell I will get one anyway again sooner or later...)
Anyway not bad guns (though a bit too heavy), just dont fit me and toehrs I talk too..
Plus its not a High Power...ever hear of someone that that didnt fit?
WildmanlystrongyetdelicatehandsAlaska
GigaBuist
Member
A CZ-75B in 9mm was my first handgun. Came recommended by a retired Marine (they're never ex-Marines -- they just retire) and I cant' say it was a bad choice at all.
In HIS hand he could put 10 rounds through a 2" hole at 10 yards easily time after time. Seen him do worse with his own Beretta 92 that same day -- and the bugger probably owns 30 handguns easily.
Used to tell me my pistol was confused. It shoots as accurate as a target gun but it's a combat weapon.
The SA pull is fine for me, but the DA pull doesn't work at all. I've got hands the size of a 12 year old Japanese school girl's. Given that I don't have the decocker model I see no reason why I'd ever plan on doing a DA pull though.
It is a heavy gun which is one of the things I actually like about it. I have no intentions of making it a primary CCW piece -- but damn if it isn't fun on the range. Now, if I didn't have to worry about it printing or could carry it openly, giddy up!
I've never seen the gun fail in the 3 years I've had it. Wait, scratch that. If I don't clean it out after 300 rounds of dirty ammo it fails to feed sometimes. I did that as an experiment. Brush the feed ramp off though and you're good to go.
The sights are sturdy, the finish is good, the SA trigger pull is OK, it's accurate as you can get in a combat ready pistol, it's all solid steel, 15+1 capactiy, and reliable as you can get. That's a quality 9mm pistol.
Your dealer has issues. I'm guessing he offered you a fancy custom Kimber or a cheap Jennings after that exchange.
In HIS hand he could put 10 rounds through a 2" hole at 10 yards easily time after time. Seen him do worse with his own Beretta 92 that same day -- and the bugger probably owns 30 handguns easily.
Used to tell me my pistol was confused. It shoots as accurate as a target gun but it's a combat weapon.
The SA pull is fine for me, but the DA pull doesn't work at all. I've got hands the size of a 12 year old Japanese school girl's. Given that I don't have the decocker model I see no reason why I'd ever plan on doing a DA pull though.
It is a heavy gun which is one of the things I actually like about it. I have no intentions of making it a primary CCW piece -- but damn if it isn't fun on the range. Now, if I didn't have to worry about it printing or could carry it openly, giddy up!
I've never seen the gun fail in the 3 years I've had it. Wait, scratch that. If I don't clean it out after 300 rounds of dirty ammo it fails to feed sometimes. I did that as an experiment. Brush the feed ramp off though and you're good to go.
The sights are sturdy, the finish is good, the SA trigger pull is OK, it's accurate as you can get in a combat ready pistol, it's all solid steel, 15+1 capactiy, and reliable as you can get. That's a quality 9mm pistol.
Your dealer has issues. I'm guessing he offered you a fancy custom Kimber or a cheap Jennings after that exchange.
mbott
Member
Does it really matter?
--
Mike
Jeff Timm
Member
For sublime thoughts on Gun Shop Staff I refer you to the gentlemanly musings of Dean Spier, whose name I never spell right.
http://www.thegunzone.com/fatfrank.html
Geoff
Who doesn't give advise in gunstores.
http://www.thegunzone.com/fatfrank.html
Geoff
Who doesn't give advise in gunstores.
VG
Member
CZ's are not as good as some of the cheerleaders say, but what is?
They are big, solid, inexpensive pistols that work well and are decently accurate. And they're not derivative of other designs for the most part and so can claim a place in a collection.
They are big, solid, inexpensive pistols that work well and are decently accurate. And they're not derivative of other designs for the most part and so can claim a place in a collection.
Baba Louie
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,831
Crap... as compared to ???
Heavy? Yeah
Some tooling marks inside? Yeah
Longish DA trigger reach? Yeah
Made in a third world European nation with a long history of firearms manufacture and notable quality while using low cost labor which helps keep the prices down? Yeah
Goes bang every time (at least mine have)? Oh yeah
As accurate as any other of my handguns in my hands? Definitely yeah
Made by a German/Swiss/Austrian/MA/AZ firm using high priced labor and or importing costs? No
So tell your dealer to knock off $30 and buy all he's got in stock
You'll be a happy camper by helping rid his shop of crap handguns he offers for sale (assuming he stocks/carries them).
If you're a southpaw the 85 is nice (I think the 75SA also has an ambi safety... but don't quote me)
Don't show him the printout! He'll only realize there are a lot of crap handgun owners out here and raise his prices accordingly to fleece us
Heavy? Yeah
Some tooling marks inside? Yeah
Longish DA trigger reach? Yeah
Made in a third world European nation with a long history of firearms manufacture and notable quality while using low cost labor which helps keep the prices down? Yeah
Goes bang every time (at least mine have)? Oh yeah
As accurate as any other of my handguns in my hands? Definitely yeah
Made by a German/Swiss/Austrian/MA/AZ firm using high priced labor and or importing costs? No
So tell your dealer to knock off $30 and buy all he's got in stock
You'll be a happy camper by helping rid his shop of crap handguns he offers for sale (assuming he stocks/carries them).
If you're a southpaw the 85 is nice (I think the 75SA also has an ambi safety... but don't quote me)
Don't show him the printout! He'll only realize there are a lot of crap handgun owners out here and raise his prices accordingly to fleece us
Grunt
Member
Alright, let's play one of my favorite games, "follow the money." First question, what does he carry in stock? Is it CZ or is it something he can sell you that he just so happens to carry right now? Next question, what kind of mark up does he have on a lot of the crap he sells? Could it be that he can't make as high of a profit margin off CZ as he can off of another name brand? If not, then yeah, the CZ would probably be crap...for the salesman!
First question, what does he carry in stock? Is it CZ or is it something he can sell you that he just so happens to carry right now? Next question, what kind of mark up does he have on a lot of the crap he sells? Could it be that he can't make as high of a profit margin off CZ as he can off of another name brand? If not, then yeah, the CZ would probably be crap...for the salesman!
armoredman
Member
The CZ lineup covers a whole buncha angles, but it would be nice if they covered a few more niches. I have had a CZ75 Compact, and wish I had never sold it - very reliable, accurate, dependable, etc. My wife has a new CZ 2075 RAMI, and it has all the above attributes, as well.
Got big hands? CZ97 45 ACP, a big pistol designed for big hands.
Average? Any CZ75, 9mm or 40 SW
Small hands? PCR. PO1, RAMI, CZ75 Compact
Light weight? PCR, PO1, RAMI
Steel? CZ75 full and Compact
Like 1911, but wanna CZ? The discontinued, (carried by cdnninvestments.com) CZ40. a co-designed pistol from CZ and Colt, originally called the Colt Z40. Find a Colt Z40, have a heck of an investment collector....I know where one is, and if I get my raises like I should,m that puppy is mine.
I like CZ, and think they are far better than most big name guns. I worked on a rental range for a year and a half, and the only guns that didn't break were the Rugers and CZs. Oddly enough, the inexpensive ones....
No, lets have CZ bring out the CZ97 in 10mm, and the Compact in 40, and the standard in 357SIG, and we'll be closer to covering the bases....
Got big hands? CZ97 45 ACP, a big pistol designed for big hands.
Average? Any CZ75, 9mm or 40 SW
Small hands? PCR. PO1, RAMI, CZ75 Compact
Light weight? PCR, PO1, RAMI
Steel? CZ75 full and Compact
Like 1911, but wanna CZ? The discontinued, (carried by cdnninvestments.com) CZ40. a co-designed pistol from CZ and Colt, originally called the Colt Z40. Find a Colt Z40, have a heck of an investment collector....I know where one is, and if I get my raises like I should,m that puppy is mine.
I like CZ, and think they are far better than most big name guns. I worked on a rental range for a year and a half, and the only guns that didn't break were the Rugers and CZs. Oddly enough, the inexpensive ones....
No, lets have CZ bring out the CZ97 in 10mm, and the Compact in 40, and the standard in 357SIG, and we'll be closer to covering the bases....
SouthpawShootr
Member
You forgot the CZ100, the CZ alot of people would like to forget . I have one and it's been 100% reliable. Trigger is awful. Once you master the trigger, though, the gun is a tack driver. AND it has never jammed. Got it for $300 (probably overpaid just a little), but I'm satisfied with it.
. I have one and it's been 100% reliable. Trigger is awful. Once you master the trigger, though, the gun is a tack driver. AND it has never jammed. Got it for $300 (probably overpaid just a little), but I'm satisfied with it.GigaBuist wrote: "I've never seen the gun fail in the 3 years I've had it. Wait, scratch that. If I don't clean it out after 300 rounds of dirty ammo it fails to feed sometimes. I did that as an experiment. Brush the feed ramp off though and you're good to go."
If you haven't done it already, try polishing the feed ramp. About 15-20 seconds with your best friend Mr. Dremel is all it takes. Maybe not even that long. It helps alot. At one point as a test I didn't clean my 75B for close to 600 rounds. Never skiped a beat. I still don't clean it but maybe every 2nd or 3rd trip to the range (approx 150 rounds per trip).
To comment on the original thread; opinion is just that. If your dealer doesn't like CZ, good for him. More for the rest of us. I don't like Glocks, ever heard anyone say that the Glock is "The Ultimate". Maybe he just can't shoot them well. I can't shoot a Beretta for crap, so for me they suck. At the same time, I wouldn't begin to say that overall they suck.
Rent one yourself and make up your own mind. Or, just trust us on this one and get the 85. If you don't like it I'm sure somebody around here will take it off of your hand. PM me first though, I think I can give it a loving home. I personaly love me 75B. If things were to turn south real quick-like, it's the first pistol I'm going for. I shoot it more accurate than any others.
Have fun, be safe, Peace Out,
Calhoun
If you haven't done it already, try polishing the feed ramp. About 15-20 seconds with your best friend Mr. Dremel is all it takes. Maybe not even that long. It helps alot. At one point as a test I didn't clean my 75B for close to 600 rounds. Never skiped a beat. I still don't clean it but maybe every 2nd or 3rd trip to the range (approx 150 rounds per trip).
To comment on the original thread; opinion is just that. If your dealer doesn't like CZ, good for him. More for the rest of us. I don't like Glocks, ever heard anyone say that the Glock is "The Ultimate". Maybe he just can't shoot them well. I can't shoot a Beretta for crap, so for me they suck. At the same time, I wouldn't begin to say that overall they suck.
Rent one yourself and make up your own mind. Or, just trust us on this one and get the 85. If you don't like it I'm sure somebody around here will take it off of your hand. PM me first though, I think I can give it a loving home. I personaly love me 75B. If things were to turn south real quick-like, it's the first pistol I'm going for. I shoot it more accurate than any others.
Have fun, be safe, Peace Out,
Calhoun
Does this dealer also sell crack with his guns, because he's smoking his own product. CZs are great (both rifles and pistols) I have a 75 and it's been problem free and extremely accurate. Find a new dealer, whatever he's pushing, you don't want it.
armoredman
Member
You are right - I forgot the CZ100, and the 101 they should have imported, along with the exquisite CZ122 .22lr I wish I could get.... I have fired the CZ100, and the trigger wasn't that bad.
4thHorseman
Member
Hey bfox, if your dealer said they are crap...that's great! The he won't mind selling you them for cost, would he?
Just because he is a dealer doesn't make him an expert.
Just because he is a dealer doesn't make him an expert.
Diamondback
Member
Your dealer :
A) Doesn't know what he is talking about and therefore I would be skeptical of any of his other "opinions" or advice.
or
B) He wants you to buy a different gun whose sale will yield him a larger profit and therefore he is interested only in his own profit margin and has no regard for the customer.
If you want an accurate assessment ot the CZ read Marcus' post on the previous page....he had said nearly all that needs to be said on these guns !
-Regards
A) Doesn't know what he is talking about and therefore I would be skeptical of any of his other "opinions" or advice.
or
B) He wants you to buy a different gun whose sale will yield him a larger profit and therefore he is interested only in his own profit margin and has no regard for the customer.
If you want an accurate assessment ot the CZ read Marcus' post on the previous page....he had said nearly all that needs to be said on these guns !
-Regards
PCRCCW
Member
Well after close to 20......yes, 20 of them I can say I think they are as good as you can get........Sig, STI, Glock........whatever floats your boat. Ive had ALOT of nice guns and my CCW's have always been CZ's. Ive had ones that werent as accurate as the others or had a hiccup here or there....but in general, they are a damn fine gun.
Get a new dealer and laugh hysterically at your old one
Shoot well.
Get a new dealer and laugh hysterically at your old one
Shoot well.
Mannlicher
Member
I have only one CZ, a 75D PCR. I bought it because it was a 'deal', NIB, $300 out the door complete with an Uncle Mike's holster and a box of shells.
I had never shot or owned a CZ before buying that one. Now, after owning this little 9mm for a few years, I would not part with it under any circumstances. I find it to be accurate, totally reliable, easy to carry, takes Hi Cap mags, and it as a joy to shoot. Other than a couple of Browning HP I own, this is my total favorite 9mm now.
I had never shot or owned a CZ before buying that one. Now, after owning this little 9mm for a few years, I would not part with it under any circumstances. I find it to be accurate, totally reliable, easy to carry, takes Hi Cap mags, and it as a joy to shoot. Other than a couple of Browning HP I own, this is my total favorite 9mm now.
bradvanhorn
Member
My $400 (which some tell me is expensive for a CZ) CZ 75 B SA is probably the finest 9mm handgun I've ever owned. Beretta's, HK's, Sig's, and other's I've probably forgotten - all are good guns (heck great guns), but I'd sacrifice them all for my CZ. In fact, I recently traded my HK USP 9mm for my new CZ 75 B, and I got killed on the trade. But you know what? I'd much rather have the CZ any day.
If I were buying again today, and thankfully I'm not (too much money spent this month already), I'd say get the CZ 75 B SA if you can live with single action only, or the CZ 75 BD if you want a traditional double/single action gun. If you want something lighter and more compact, go with the CZ 75 D PCR.
Also, there's no need to insult the moron you were dealing with. If you have no other choice, go back and buy the CZ (assuming you can). If he again tells you it's crap, you can kindly ask for a deep discount (as someone else suggested) since you don't want to pay full price for your crap.
Just remember, for every rule there's always an exception, but if you buy a CZ I doubt you will regret it.
If I were buying again today, and thankfully I'm not (too much money spent this month already), I'd say get the CZ 75 B SA if you can live with single action only, or the CZ 75 BD if you want a traditional double/single action gun. If you want something lighter and more compact, go with the CZ 75 D PCR.
Also, there's no need to insult the moron you were dealing with. If you have no other choice, go back and buy the CZ (assuming you can). If he again tells you it's crap, you can kindly ask for a deep discount (as someone else suggested) since you don't want to pay full price for your crap.
Just remember, for every rule there's always an exception, but if you buy a CZ I doubt you will regret it.
Stephen A. Camp
Moderator In Memoriam
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2002
- Messages
- 2,430
Hello. I've had rather good luck with several CZ handguns and rifles. They seem very good buys and have worked for me at the range and in the hunting fields. While I'm quite partial to the Hi Power and the 1911, I would not hesitate to use one of my CZ pistols for "serious" matters.
This old Pre-B had Novaks added by Kurt Wickman some years ago. The target was fired at 15 yards. It's not a "Camp Perry pistol", but it has plenty of accuracy for my needs, real or perceived.
My observations mirror WildAlaska's: The DA trigger reach is a tad long for some folks and on the edge for me. When I carry this gun, it's cocked and locked so that's not been an issue. For folks not preferring to tote in that fashion, it very well might be.
CZ's are not perfect; I'm STILL looking for the perfect pistol and have yet to find it from any maker. Jeff Cooper said something to the effect that "Perfection exists only in the mind of God." I believe that to be true, but keep looking. I've not found perfection with any handgun, but some are darned good and I personally think the CZ's fit that catagory.
Rough interiors? True.
Too long a trigger reach? True, for some.
Reliable? In my experience with several, yes.
Accurate? Surprisingly good "service" accuracy.
Durable? They seem to be; I've been shooting the same ones regularly since the early '80's.
The CZ handguns I've tried (CZ75, 75B's with one exception, 85's, 97's, and 83's) have had very usuable DA/SA pulls out of the box. A couple were exceptionally good. One CZ75B had a good DA pull, but a rather gritty, poor SA pull. That could have been easily fixed, but I sold the gun as I didn't care for the caliber.
This CZ83 has been a stellar performer. The caliber is not my first choice for self-protection, but the gun's quite easy to get the hits with and this one's proven 100% reliable with any and all ammunition tried except Federal 90-gr. Hydrashoks. It's reliably unreliable with them. Everything else works smoothly and w/o fail.
I do not claim to understand your dealer's "reasons" but do disagree with him.
Best.
This old Pre-B had Novaks added by Kurt Wickman some years ago. The target was fired at 15 yards. It's not a "Camp Perry pistol", but it has plenty of accuracy for my needs, real or perceived.
My observations mirror WildAlaska's: The DA trigger reach is a tad long for some folks and on the edge for me. When I carry this gun, it's cocked and locked so that's not been an issue. For folks not preferring to tote in that fashion, it very well might be.
CZ's are not perfect; I'm STILL looking for the perfect pistol and have yet to find it from any maker. Jeff Cooper said something to the effect that "Perfection exists only in the mind of God." I believe that to be true, but keep looking. I've not found perfection with any handgun, but some are darned good and I personally think the CZ's fit that catagory.
Rough interiors? True.
Too long a trigger reach? True, for some.
Reliable? In my experience with several, yes.
Accurate? Surprisingly good "service" accuracy.
Durable? They seem to be; I've been shooting the same ones regularly since the early '80's.
The CZ handguns I've tried (CZ75, 75B's with one exception, 85's, 97's, and 83's) have had very usuable DA/SA pulls out of the box. A couple were exceptionally good. One CZ75B had a good DA pull, but a rather gritty, poor SA pull. That could have been easily fixed, but I sold the gun as I didn't care for the caliber.
This CZ83 has been a stellar performer. The caliber is not my first choice for self-protection, but the gun's quite easy to get the hits with and this one's proven 100% reliable with any and all ammunition tried except Federal 90-gr. Hydrashoks. It's reliably unreliable with them. Everything else works smoothly and w/o fail.
I do not claim to understand your dealer's "reasons" but do disagree with him.
Best.
Longbow
Member
My only expereince with CZ's is with an EAA CZ clone (Witness). I used it in USPSA competition. My extractor broke twice in a match (ya know, these things only happen in a match ). I eventually replaced it with an EGW extractor. It got sold before I can fire more rounds through it. Some competitors I know had the same issues. This expereince is the only thing that prevents me from considering a CZ or CZ based handgun again. Otherwise, they do feel good and somewhat accurate. I don't know if the real CZ's share the same weakness.
). I eventually replaced it with an EGW extractor. It got sold before I can fire more rounds through it. Some competitors I know had the same issues. This expereince is the only thing that prevents me from considering a CZ or CZ based handgun again. Otherwise, they do feel good and somewhat accurate. I don't know if the real CZ's share the same weakness.- Status
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