Gun shop salesman tells me Springfield 1911's are "crap"...

[Lone_Gunman]

Tuner, I have no doubt you had a good Springer. And I have no doubt that any particular Springer is just as good and durable as any other 1911. Durability is not the issue. The issue is that Springers are not consistent.
I think Springer has a higher rate of not running right compared to Colt and S&W. If you have a Springfield that runs good, it will run as good as any of them.

I base this on the three or four Springfields that I have owned. I admit this sample size is small, but all of them had reliability issues to some degree.

 

[Nortonics]

What should I have said?

Then let me see those 2 pieces of crap.

 

[1911Tuner]

Springers

LoneGunman...I agree. They seem to be hit and miss as to reliability, and most of the time, it's because of the extractors...which have been problematical on average of about 3 in 10. Once the extractor has been changed out for a good one, correctly tweaked and lightly modified, that part of the problem goes away.

The other one has been with the barrel chambers requiring finish reaming to remove the heavy taper near the shoulders. This one comes in at about 10% of the ones that I've worked on...and the failure to return to battery issues pretty much go away.

The GI Mil-Specs have a recurrent problem with erratic ejection, complete with head shots. After dinkin' around with the extractors without results, it turned out to be the ejectors...and this glitch occurs at the uncalled for rate of about 70% of all the examples that I've been involved with. Only thing you can do is replace it. Couple this issue with a bad extractor, and you start to believe that the gun is a real lemon...but once it's addressed, they run like a raped ape.

The last thing is magazines. Decent mags, but the springs are too soft. Easy fix. Wolff 11-pound springs. Presto!

Sad that we have to correct problems that should never have been there in the first place...but there it is. For those willing and able, the two Mil-Spec models can be outstanding.

The last part is that these issues are also noted in the Loaded models, though not with the same frequency. So...You buy the gun and figure on spending another 75 bucks or so on it to make it right. Not a bad deal when you think about it. So far, they've shown themselves to be pretty solid and durable for the long, hard haul.

 

[callgood]

You said exactly what I would have said.

Life's too short to argue with morons.

Exactly, and I would have walked out as the OP did and returned when my regular salesman would get the commission.

 

[AK103K]

I've had hit or miss luck(and mostly miss) with the last 5 Springfields I've bought. I think Springfields QC needs a little work. If you are going to look at buying one, I would highly suggest you go somewhere that has multiple copies of what your looking for, and closely compare them side by side right there on the counter. You may be amazed at the differences between guns of the same serial number range.


If most of the other Loaded models work like mine did, I agree with the salesman, they are total crap. Mine would not reliably feed hardball out of the box and by the time I was done, was basically put back to a standard 1911. I at first re-tuned and then replaced the extractor, and then replaced the guide rod for a standard spring and plug. This helped a little, but the gun would still act up just about every mag. I also had to file the safety down to a reasonable profile, as it would tear up my hand, and I replaced the MSH for an arched one and the long trigger for a short one. The last three being personal preference, and not really any affect on function. The more I think about it, I dont know what I was thinking when I bought it.

I have two of the WWII 1911's, one isnt bad, the other, pretty much a dog.

My WWII Champion is a shooter, and has worked 100% out of the box. It was the last Springfield I bought, and will also most likely be my last period.

I've always had the best luck with 1911's with my Colts, or guns built to the original Colt/GI specs. I had a few early Springfields that were, and they worked fine. Once they strayed, the troubles seem to have increased. I like them loose, with a little rattle when you shake them. I have yet to have a stock Colt not work from the box and their triggers have all been real nice too.

The point for me is actually moot now anyways, after 30 some years of daily 1911 carry and use, I moved on to SIG's and have never looked back. I sold off all my non Colt's, except for the Champion, and those left really havent been shot to much since.

 

[bud212002]

I have owned S.A. 1911 of 4 types, 3 kimbers, and a dan wesson, all have at one time or another had issues. My current Kimber took 100 rds. to break it in and now gos bang every time. If u want a out of the box perfect gun, buy a Glock, if you want to tinker with one, get a 1911 of some variation.
A 1911 is like a fine glass of wine, patience is the best virtue. It is also addictive, you will always be looking for a way to improve your 1911.

 

[Baphomet]

And FWIW the guns that the FBI HRT use aren't Loaded models. If i'm right there custom made by the Springfield Custom shop. I'm sure that Rob Leatham doesn't use Loaded models either...

Thank you, but I was referring in fact, and somewhat tongue in cheek, to the overall quality of Springfield pistols, not to the "Loaded" model in particular.

The Springfield "TRP" and "TRP-Pro" models reflect particular modifications requested by the FBI to the standard pistol submitted for testing. They were subsequently released by Springfield under those particular monikers and are not Custom shop pistols.

 

[bud212002]

Also, check out 1911forum.com

there are several people on there that actually know what they are talking about, not just some 14 year old know-it-all

 

[sm]

Agree with XavierBreath's post 13 and 1911Tuner's previous test posts.

Remember, There are some folks that know how to sell , and there are those that can only present for showing to a customer what they have in stock, have greater profit margin in or will receive a bonus for selling the most of.

There is a difference in the two folks behind the counter.

 

[Brad686]

The Springs I've shot I wasn't that impressed with, but I also had the same luck with the Kimber as well. IMO, nothing beats a Para as far as 1911's go, especially with LDA

 

[gezzer]

I would have sold you the used springfield cause I would have made more money on that used gun than on the used Kimber.

And the reason is I don't pay much for Springields that are used there is a reason for this and the customer is always right.

 

[PX15]

IMO:

I think it's simply a fact of life that each of us have our favorites and prejudices in anything..

The person selling "whatever" product always has favorites and prejudices too. Surprisingly there seems to be a correlation between the percentage profit and the items he prefers to sell.. Duh?

More profit, better product... Less profit, "it's crap"..

I always like the theory, who stands to profit from the transaction you are considering? Chances are it's the salesman, or his employer.

If you are in the market for anything, research it carefully, put your grubby little hands on it, around it, and get some quality information about it. The old "forearmed is forewarned" idea..

Then buy what you want and ignore salesmans advice when it is contrary to the research you have done that indicates otherwise.

Salesman by the very nature of their occupation are in the business of SELLING... And the more profit made on the item, the better the salesman..
Not nice, but true.

JMOFO

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I don't sell Springfields or Kimbers. But I have owned 3 or 4 of each. I guess I have bad luck, because none of them were 100%, bet your life on, reliable.

I will not buy another Springfield or Kimber, and don't recommend anyone else do it either.

I have no doubt that there are 100% reliable Springfields and Kimbers, but I think there is a significant chance you will get one that won't work, and that the factory won't be able to fix when you send back.

 

[swan hunter]

Kimbers

I have a couple and they both have run everything I put through them...Very accurate...I have maybe 300 rounds through them.
No experience with Springfields.

 

[Jkwas]

anytime someone tells me a product is no good I run the other way. They can tell me why another product is better, and I'll listen.

 

[PX15]

FWIW:

I think all firearm manufacturers produce "lemons" from time to time.

For example, I have two KelTec's.. A P32, and a P11. Both have been excellent pistols, reliable and accurate from day one..

But you can read on various forums where all KelTec's are crap.. My two have been just fine.

I don't even have a 1911 type pistol (bah, humbug), so I don't have a clue as to which manufacturer has the best reputation for reliability and quality. I just know that in years past I had an old "Ballister Molina" 1911 "lookalike" and the pistol was simply too large for my small hands.. Ergo: I don't have any 1911's.

As I get older (and I'm REALLY old) I am learning that "you get what you pay for" isn't necessarily as true in firearms as I once thought it was. For example I have found that the KelTec's and Bersa/Firestorms are actually excellent firearms, and aren't pricy in comparison to the "big name" firearms.

I'll fess up to being a "brand name" snob to some degree, but quite honestly my Bersa Thunder 9/UC is extremely accurate, 100% reliable, comes with a Lifetime Warranty and only cost $305.00 + tax...

My new Walther P99c/AS came pretty close to costing twice that much, offers 3 less rounds capacity, and a one year warranty...

Both pistols will indeed put a round whereever you have the skill to point the barrel and pull the trigger...

I thought HiPoint firearms were cheap crap.. Until I bought a 9mm 995/Carbine. It's excellent. Then I keep reading where the "cheap to buy" HiPoint pistols, ugly tho they may be.. and "they be ugly", they seem to function quite well. High Point has a lifetime warranty on all of it's products not only for the original purchaser, but any purchaser, anytime, no questions asked.

Heck, now I want one..:banghead:

JMOFO

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

 

[45auto]

Bad salesman. I'm sure the owner wouldn't have been too pleased to hear that. If not, don't sell them...simple.

But, they could loose a customer like me. I don't "do" external extractors, FP safeties activated by grip safeties so "my" selection or preference is narrowed down substantially. Mainly Colt and Springfield in the production 1911s. So, "they" need to decide if their shop is run like a "hobby" or a "business" catering to shooters with different wants.

Ironically, I've had that happen with both Colt and Springfield in different shops.

 

[TonyT]

I would seriously question the basis for the salesmans remarks about SA products. My two are excellent and their customer service is great - you get to speak to a live person who knows sopmething in a very short period of time.

 

[fiber optic]

"They're crap huh? How about $50 for the pair?"

 

[DirksterG30]

The Springfields are nice guns. Unfortunately the one I shot with the factory 2 piece guiderods did loosen up on several occasions. Replacement guiderod and you are good to go...Illini

Or you could use a little loctite. Works fine in my Springfield. And my Springfield has been flawless, except for a few failures with Blazer Brass.

As others have said, sounds like the store just has a higher profit margin on the Kimbers.

 

[Correia]

They aren't my favorite 1911 by any means, (STI) but I think for the money the Springfield is a good gun. One of my daily carry guns is a Springfield.

Hey, what a coincidence, see my signature line.

 

[Master Blaster]

If they are crap do him a favor and offer him half to take that crap off his hands.

I have a 2006 manufacture SIG P220ST thats an unadulterated unrelaible JAMOMATIC piece of crap.

I would carry my springfield or either of my kimbers before I would trust or carry anything made by SIGARMS.

 

[mpmarty]

Ya know, it's sometimes just a matter of perspective. I have drifted away from the 1911 camp after many years and several custom jobs built on various frames with several different slides etc. I now enjoy playing with double stack ten millimeter and 45 acp pistols. Case in point my latest acquisition from the Czech republic is a CZ TT45 bought new in box less than a month ago. It had several problems including no detent on safety lever, and a mag catch spring so soft if you looked at it hard the mag fell out. On Monday morning I called the distributor who no longer imports this firearm. On the same Monday I fedex the gun to the distributor (ADCO SALES). On Wednesday of the same week I get a phone call from the folks at ADCO and they explain in great detail all they have done to the pistol and state that I will have it back by Friday. I can hardly believe that a warranty repair including three thousand miles of transport can be done in one week but that's what happened.

Now I decide to fire a couple hundred rounds and see how it does with WWB ammo. Well, it's a jamomatic. About every other shot the slide stop locks the slide back. Changed to my 200gr SWC cast IPSC ammo and it runs like a champ. Close look at the 230gr WWB hardball and I see the nose is wide and comes too close to the slide stop tab. I also note the tab on the slide stop sticks out way more than it needs to in order to catch the hold open tab on the magazine follower.

A little time on my 1750rpm grinder and I reduce the slide stop tab by about twenty thousandths of an inch and VOILA!!! no more jamomatic with WWB ammo and the slide locks back just fine on an empty mag.

Was this gun a piece of junk? Was it worth $300? It is accurate, reliable and fits my hand like a glove. All a matter of perspective. I never demean anybodys choice in firearms.

 

[SolaScriptura139]

Which company would you guys feel to be the most consistent in reliability?

 

[c_yeager]

Wether what he said is true or not doesnt really matter. The fact is that he was a crappy salesman. A good salesman will pull out those springfields, get you to a point where you are reaching for you wallet, *then* mention some of the things that makes the Kimber better. "Upselling" is important, but not if it costs the whole deal. It certainly is better to sell a used Springfield than to have a customer walk out the door with all his money in his wallet.