Gun shop salesman tells me Springfield 1911's are "crap"...

[JLStorm]

I have a springfield 1911 that I really like. I have had a few issues with it, but springfield customer service is great and has me ship it off and has never charged me a cent. I would not hesitate to buy or carry this weapon, but if it starts to have problems eventually, I wouldnt make it my only weapon.

As much as I love the 1911 I have replaced it when HK for carry use unless I need to CCW and I wouldnt be wearing the type of clothes that could hide my HK USP FS.

 

[f4t9r]

Which company would you guys feel to be the most consistent in reliability?

How about Colt !!!!!

 

[XDKingslayer]

What should I have said?

So you'll have no problems giving me a $100 discount on each of them if I promise not to bring them back if they malfunction...

 

[Big Calhoun]

One thing I learned (from fine folks here and at TFL) is to never ask the salesperson for their opinion. They're opinion is based on their bottom line apparently. I only rely on sales people to help verify facts about the weapon in question and to take my money.

 

[AK103K]

I think all firearm manufacturers produce "lemons" from time to time.

I agree 110%. Unfortunately for me, I seem to be a magnet for some of the manufacturers. One gun doesnt mean that all of them are bad, but repeats mean something might be up.

[I have a 2006 manufacture SIG P220ST thats an unadulterated unrelaible JAMOMATIC piece of crap.

Just curious, but how many have you owned besides this one?

Of all the pistols of different makers I've owned over the years, only three have stood out above the rest due to never having to send one back for repair. Those three have been Colt, HK, and SIG. This isnt a one gun wonder thing for each either, I currently still have 8 Colt 1911's (sold or traded more than that over the years too), 10 SIG's of various "P" flavors and a Mosquito, and a half dozen HK's, which have been traded off over the years.

Of all the rest, at least one gun, and often more than one, of the other big name makers has had to go back to the factory for repairs. Springfield has been the worst, and this has mostly been in the recent past few years. Their early guns were very good. They were also very close to Colt/GI specs back then. Glock, Walther, and S&W are the others that required multiple send backs.

....but springfield customer service is great

This seems to be a good sales point for a lot of people. Personally, I rate them on never having to make a call, let alone, sending one back.

 

[BADUNAME13]

I have a Springfield Loaded I've taken to Gunsite, and used in Practical pistol matches... it doesn't look like much, the finish is worn... but I'd trust my life to it.

 

[Desertscout]

I ordered a $1600 SA 1911 for a guy a few months ago and he brought it back the next day and we had to send it back to the factory. It's been OK since but we still had to send it back.

We had a guy yesterday in a class with a GI Model SA. He didn't get to finish the course and the gun had to be taken off the line. He had to qualify with a
G22. Consistent Type II malfs with 2-3 different mags and then we couldn't get the mag out of the mag well. We took the gun off the line, got the mag and told the guy to put it away.

 

[BevrFevr]

ever think the guy may be right?

I'm not gonna buy a springfield or a kimber until I am so rich it don't matter. I don't see that day coming anytime soon.

If I was going to buy a latin american 1911 it would be a systema over a springfield. Hell, I would buy norinco before springfield.

 

[cherryriver]

I would never say that all Springers are bad, but I know I've owned a Loaded target-sighted version for a couple of years and it's broken more than once and been back to Geneseo, too. It has never been a perfect runner, but I've gotten it work pretty well. However, the barrel link broke, the mag well fell off, the guide rod came loose several times, the rear sight dissolved in a mess of flying parts once and fell off another, and maybe another one or two issues I've forgotten.
Since I'd had Colts for the thirty-some years previous with no such shenannigans, I just went out and got a Special Combat Government Model to replace the Loaded as my USPSA gun. It runs perfectly, parts don't fall off, it has a better trigger, is more accurate, and requires less looking-after.
All that said, the Springfield was cheaper, and therefore may have been an appropriate value.
There are lots of good Springers out there, so this micro-experience is just a narrow little one-man's-view.
Bill

 

[S&Wfan]

My favorite response to a jerk salesmen is this, spoken as if you were scolding a stupid or disobedient dog:

BAD DOG! NO BISCUIT! Make sure to say it very loud, so EVERYONE in the store can hear it!

I then just turn around and walk out of the store.


You can always return later and buy from your trusted salesperson. If you do, hold up your purchase and yell out to the offending sales-slut again,
BAD DOG! NO BISCUIT!

T.

 

[AK103K]

 

[soul_rapier]

i hate all springfields but they are good guns nothing like a glock but good . sounds like to me he wanted to make more money on the high dollar junky kimber

 

[BHPshooter]

Remember, There are some folks that know how to sell , and there are those that can only present for showing to a customer what they have in stock, have greater profit margin in or will receive a bonus for selling the most of.

Actually, Steve, there is a third type -- in our shop, we have no "preferred brands," and we get no commissions. I wouldn't have it any other way, both as a "salesperson" (which I DON'T consider myself to be) and as an instructor. That way, when people come in who are considering a gun and who don't already have their minds made up, I can simply show them a variety of guns and let them pick what feels and works best for them, without even mentioning my biases. I WILL objectively offer pros and cons as to a type or a model from an instructor's standpoint, but I won't say, "XDs are a cheap, crappy knockoff. Buy one of these Glocks!!" Or something similarly nauseating.

I like it that way. And I've found that my passive "sales technique*" makes people more comfortable -- I've had more people ask me for instruction than I ever thought I would... I believe that is because of my easygoing manner.

*I dislike even saying that -- I'm honestly not out to sell guns, I'm out to talk guns. People don't need any pushing to buy what they really want anyway.

Wes

 

[Old Dog]

Uh, joining in a bit late ... but is this thread about whether Springfield Armory 1911s really are crap or are gunshop salesclerks idiots?

 

[soul_rapier]

yeah pretty much

 

[Old Dog]

... in which case I'd respectfully disagree with the former (having owned nine SA 1911s, all worthy pistolas in their own right) and heartily concur with the latter (except for my buddy John -- you rock! -- even though you're a Kimber pusher) ...

 

[craig]

gee, the wife and i bought a couple of crappy guns?

the 2 mil specs we have seem to work pretty good all the time for us.

maybe we should listen to the kimber salesman and pay more for some GOOD guns.

seriously, we have 2 mil specs and haven't had any problems with either one.

mine was tweaked by 1911 tuner a little bit, but i was having no problems with it before then, and haven't had any since.

my wife's is stock except a wolff recoil spring.

maybe we got lucky.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

My Springfield, as fussy as it has been, has NEVER had problems with the two piece guide rod. My Kimbers run much better than the "crappy" Glocks that wear out after a few hundred rounds - triggers fail to reset, sears that go full auto, etc. But I never say that YOU shouldn't own a Glock, just that I won't spend MY money on them. I'm sold on Kimbers and Colts. Some of my friends that I respect greatly are sold on Glocks. It is up to the shooter to decide what HE wants. The salesman's job is to assist the customer in finding what THE CUSTOMER wants, not what the salesman wants to sell to the customer. Maybe the salesman really wanted those Springers for himself but didn't have the money, so he is steering everyone away from them.

 

[soul_rapier]

LOL .....i got over 15,000 rounds shot out of my glock and it keep on shooting as of this day with no problems kimber the ones i have seen are junk rust over night in a car and that was a stainless one colt i have a few not worth the price on them over rated

 

[Flopsy]

Sir, do you work here? You do. So you're saying that you sell crap for a living? No no, your words. You sell crap? Nice.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

"LOL .....i got over 15,000 rounds shot out of my glock and it keep on shooting as of this day with no problems kimber the ones i have seen are junk rust over night in a car and that was a stainless one colt i have a few not worth the price on them over rated"

If you want better credibility, try using punctuation and proper grammar!

 

[brownie0486]

One thing I learned (from fine folks here and at TFL) is to never ask the salesperson for their opinion. They're opinion is based on their bottom line apparently.

Thats really lumping all salesman into the same pot and stirring isn't it?

Thefumegator,

Good post sir. I also help out behind the counter of an active/busy gun shop a few days a week now. No commisions there either. We have a few people who don't know much about guns and a few that know a lot about the shotguns and AK which I don't.

I refer customers to Jake for the shotty and AK questions, he refers customers to myself on the handguns when he needs to, and we both refer customers to "Bob", an older guy who knows a lot about a lot of gun types and manufacturers from experience with those guns in his hands over the years.

My Kimbers run much better than the "crappy" Glocks that wear out after a few hundred rounds - triggers fail to reset, sears that go full auto, etc.

Interesting statement sir. My g17 first gen has over 60K through it with NO problems since 1987-88. It will wear out in approximately another 400K rds

Phil,

Credibility doesn't necessarily come from punctuation and grammar.

Brownie

 

[Phil DeGraves]

I am not saying that GLOCKS are "crappy" (hence the quotes), just that you can get substandard guns from ANY manufacturer. My experience with Glocks turned me off them. If yours works great, I'm happy for you. What I am saying is that you can't judge any make or model of gun by the few that you have shot or owned. There are thousands of those models out there that work fine. They wouldn't continue producing them if they didn't or else they would go out of business. Now, my experience with Glocks and Springfields make me hesitant to purchase any more of them just like AK103 might be reluctant to purchase another SIG or that soul rapier (if he in fact really has shot or owned Kimbers or Colts that have given him a bad time,) would be reluctant to spend money on any more Colts or Kimbers. But a statement like "the ones i have seen are junk rust over night in a car and that was a stainless one colt i have a few not worth the price on them over rated" is the same kind of blanket statement everyone is complaining about the salesman making. Can we say "hypocrisy?"