My debate with an anti

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Ah, Utopia...

He sounds like a Utopian.
Yes, the eradication of guns would stop GUN violence. So let him try to do it. There are only 6 Billion people to convince, give or take a few, and time is running out.

The thing that bothers me about those kind of discussions is that it is completely irrational to think that all guns can be destroyed. Ask your friend to keep to rational and possible arguments and then see where it goes.

Nicely done, though. Hats off for putting up a good, friendly, civilized discussion.
 
I'm constantly asked if a nuclear bomb is covered under the 2nd amendment and I always respond with

"Well even if they were covered, I would think they would be considered a explosive ordinance and not a firearm, on top of that where would you get the cash and wouldn't that violate international law and require the UN to inspect your nuclear weapon?"

I figured it's the best response I can come up with.

The point is I don't think antis are trying to deliberately sound like idiots, I think they are referring "well how do you know what guns should or shouldn't be regulated?".

It's always the same topics brought up time and time again, yet somehow I have enough sanity to keep answering the same damn questions.

Sometimes I get through to people, other times I don't.
 
Seems like an interesting exchange. I would think a good thing to pop in there would be the prohibition example, as someone else mentioned earlier. Only in this case, people's guns wouldn't "dry up". You drink alcohol and its gone. You shoot a gun, and as long as you clean it, you get to shoot it again, making it much more difficult to rid the country of guns. Especially with those new glocks that came out. You know, the ones that make it past metal detectors ;)

And there is some SERIOUS racism at play here, which I find discrediting to at least one of the arguers. Saying that black people are inherently violent, or that "ragheads" are idiots shows that some people just live in their own reality where this kind of stuff flies, but I should think that it certainly should not on THR.
 
The most powerful argument I can think of is that if laws are that effective, we already have enough against murders, rapes, and robberies with or without firearms. If laws do not stop criminals from killing, raping, and mugging, why do you think it will stop them from making or obtaining illegal guns?
 
Alright we were debating australia and I showed him this

aus.JPG


His response was this.

From Snopes, note the last paragraph.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp
In the specific case offered here, context is the most important factor. The piece quoted above leads the reader to believe that much of the Australian citizenry owned handguns until their ownership was made illegal and all firearms owned by "law-abiding citizens" were collected by the government through a buy-back program in 1997. This is not so. Australian citizens do not (and never did) have a constitutional right to own firearms — even before the 1997 buyback program, handgun ownership in Australia was restricted to certain groups, such as those needing weapons for occupational reasons, members of approved sporting clubs, hunters, and collectors. Moreover, the 1997 buyback program did not take away all the guns owned by these groups; only some types of firearms (primarily semi-automatic and pump-action weapons) were banned. And even with the ban in effect, those who can demonstrate a legitimate need to possess prohibited categories of firearms can petition for exemptions from the law.
Given this context, any claims based on statistics (even accurate ones) which posit a cause-and-effect relationship between the gun buyback program and increased crime rates because "criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed" are automatically suspect, since the average Australian citizen didn't own firearms even before the buyback. But beyond that, most of the statistics offered here are misleading and present only "first year results" where long-term trends need to be considered in order to draw valid cause-and-effect conclusions.

For example, the first entry states that "Homicides are up 3.2%." This statistic is misleading because it reflects only the absolute number of homicides rather than the homicide rate. (A country with a rapidly-growing population, for example, might experience a higher number of crimes even while its overall crime rate decreased.) An examination of statistics from the Australian Institute of Criminology (AIC) reveals that the overall homicide rate in Australia has changed little over the past decade and actually dipped slightly after the 1997 gun buy-back program. (The chart found at this link also demonstrates how easily statistics based on small sample sizes can mislead, as when the homicide rate in Tasmania increased nearly eight-fold in one year based on a single incident in which 35 people were killed.)

Then we have the claim that "In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent." This is another example of how misleading statistics can be when the underlying numbers are not provided: Victoria, a state with a population of over four-and-a-half million people in 1997, experienced 7 firearm-related homicides in 1996 and 19 firearm-related homicides in 1997 (an increase of 171%, not 300%). An additional twelve homicides amongst a population of 4.5 million is not statistically significant, nor does this single-year statistic adequately reflect long-term trends. Moreover, the opening paragraph mixes two very different types of statistics — number of homicides vs. percentage of homicides committed with firearms. In the latter case, it should be noted that the Australia-wide percentage of homicides committed with firearms is now lower than it was before the gun buy-back program, and lower than it has been at any point during the past ten years. (In the former case, the absolute number of firearm homicides in Australia in 1998-99 was the lowest in the past ten years.)

His response again

"ive had this debate numerous times on other forums. Gun crime as a long term trend is not rising but falling. Any australian would know that as fact. 95% percent of the population agreed with tighter laws on gun ownership and still agree with the laws because they are working despite the australian and american gun lobbies attempt to twist and mislead with fabricated and out of context statistics. Most of my family are involved in some way with law enforcement and we are grateful for the laws introduced after the Port Arthur massacre."

I'm curious what I should respond with?
 
After Florida passed their concealed carry law, Floridas homicide rate fell from 36 percent above the national average to 4 percent below the national average and remains below the national average to this day
Orange County Florida just celebrated our 9th murder of the year this morning. Last year we had over 40 just in our county.
Perhaps we are seeing a repeat of Kennesaw where crime initially dropped but then slowly rose back to the old standards we are actually surpassing the old rates
CCW and guns do not make violent crime go down. Arguing that they do is as irresponsible as arguing that guns make violent crime go up

well i hate to be rascist but blacks are inherantly violent, so lets look at non-minority crime rates
I got as far as this piece of ignorant stupidity and was done.
It has been said that all guns laws are based in racism, this statement opnly supports that idea.
The easiest way to spot the rabid racist is by waiting for the first one to say he is does not want to seem racist while making a blatant KKK inspired racist statement.
 
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