Mythbusters: snipe through scope

Status
Not open for further replies.
From the book "One Shot One Kill" and quoting Carlos Hathcock:

"Cross-hairing the glimmer of reflected light, still unable to determine what it was, knowing only that in these surroundings it was something unnatural, I took up trigger slack.
The bark of the Winchester Model 70 shrieked down the gully, shattering the quiet that had endured since the Cobra killed Burke's canteen. Next to me, I felt Burke give an involuntary start as the end of the gully two hundred yards from us exploded. There was no mistaking where the 30.06 slug caught the sniper. The body of a man shot through the head often flops around like a chicken with its neck wrung, the brain gone haywire, shooting all the nerves in the body with its electricity before the lights go out permanently.
The Cobra sniper's arms and legs flailed and thrashed. His body repeatedly propelled itself into the air, blood spurting, as it cleared a red-smeared nest in the bushes. It arched its torso against the sky; the entire body began trembling desperately until life was simply gone and the thing that had been a man minutes ago collapsed to earth.
Burke was the first one to him. He picked up the dead sniper's rifle and stared at it.
"Holy Sxxx! Nobody's gonna believe this!"
Both lenses of the scope, front and back, were shattered. I examined the dead hamburger. It was obvious what had happened. My bullet smashed through his scope and into his right eye. At the the moment I shot him, the Cobra had his scope trained on me and was a hairbreadth away from claiming the bounty on my head.
I just happened to get on the trigger first.
It was a sobering thought.
 
According to what I've read, Kari got her job with M5, based on her artistic ability, before the Mythbusters show began. So she's there because she works there and has some talent, not just because she's hot.

And saying that if it was a different industry she'd just be a fluff girl is certainly not taking the high road. Methinks you have a "small" problem with women. :neener:

But I agree with most of the statements, Hathcock's shot happened, it's documented and the Mythbusters knowledge of weapons and how they perform is not very good. I remember the shooting into water episode where they built the tall narrow water tank in their shop. When they were getting ready to fire the shotgun into it I was yelling at them, "You're going to burst the thing you dummies!", and sure enough, it burst. I can't believe they didn't take into account the shock that firing a shotgun slug into a narrow column of water would generate. I thought at least Jaime was smarter than that.
 
I just got done watching this evenings episode(March 14) and it appears that this myth will be revisited on the next viewer submitted show. I believe that it will air on Wednesday March 21. I would Like to see what they come up with this time.
 
If i recall correctly, hatchcock actually shot at the glint of the scope itself, so who's to say how the bullet actually hit it. And as entertaining at Mythbusters is, there is an occasional segment where i question how rigourously they test something, since they will frequently only give a handfull of tries to certain "experiments" without setting a proper amount of control. I have no reason whatsoever to doubt the word of Mr Hathcock. Its not like he needed to prove his marksmanship to anyone, and really this story would be more of a strange occurence than any sort of bragging sort of thing to him. As Coronach pointed out its something that actually happened, and therefore any failure is on the part of the testers. For awhile scientists proved that houseflys could not generate enough force to lift their bodies off of the ground, and that didn't make the fact that they do so without effort any less factual.
 
The revisit is next week. I just watched the original tonight for the first time. I believe there's a big difference between the scopes they used to do the test and the scopes that Hathcock had to go up against in Vietnam. But that's already been said more than once.
 
Well i think with a bullet in particular there are too many variables to precisely predict what will happen every single time, which is the reason why there are standard deviation and extreme deviation tables often accompanying chronograph reports.
 
When they were getting ready to fire the shotgun into it I was yelling at them, "You're going to burst the thing you dummies!", and sure enough, it burst. I can't believe they didn't take into account the shock that firing a shotgun slug into a narrow column of water would generate. I thought at least Jaime was smarter than that.

I'll bet it went something like this...

Director: "Okay, guys... You're going to build a big tank and shoot a shotgun slug into it."

Jaime: "Er... That is gonna be really, really messy - it may blow out the sides."

Adam: "Cool! This is gonna be GREAT TV!"

Kari: "Can I pull the trigger?"
 
they are going to revisit the myth on mar 21,at 9:00 eastern time using the supposed same equipment that was used by Carlos H. and the V.C. sniper,rifles,scopes, and ammo.
 
Hey Guys,

I just had a couple of thoughts on the subject.

Does anyone know what kind of 'match' bullet the Marines loaded for sniping purposes back then...or did they just use surplus M2 Ball (30-06)? I know the Corps has a history of loading their own ammo for sniping, but I'm curious.

The reason I ask is modern match bullets like the Sierra Match Kings and Nosler Custom Competition have a reputation for being rather frangible, and my experience confirms this.

On that episode, the PD sniper brought in his 'system' for them to use in the test. I hate to make assumptions, but I'm going to anyway. It seems reasonable to assume that he has a .308 (at least that's what the cartridges looked like to me) shooting some sort of match ammo, which most likely is loaded with Sierra Match Kings (industry standard) or a similar designed bullet.

My thinking is, that the more frangible bullet totally disintegrated on the first lenses of the test scopes and couldn't carry a viable projectile through the remaining part of the scope.

If the Marines were loading modern-type match bullets back then, then my theory is washed up, but it's about all I can think of.

And a lot of you guys are giving the folks on Mythbusters a hard time for not knowing anything about guns, but they're not that bad...at least not when you compare them to someone who's supposed to know about guns...like that guy on Futureweapons (Discovery channel), Richard "Mack" Machowicz or whatever. Seems like just about every time he's talking about a gun of some sort, he gets something totally wrong...and he was a Navy SEAL! Who should know better! "This is the 7.62 Nato round (holding what is clearly a 7.62x51 or .308) that is fired from the AK-47 assault rifle..." "The HUGELY powerful 5.56 (huh?) just can't defeat the new Dragon's Skin body armor...NOT EVEN the 9mm submachine gun can get through..."

Some of the wording of my quotes my be slightly off, but that's the gist of a couple of the mistakes or misleading comments I've heard. Maybe I shouldn't jump the gun, so to speak. Perhaps he's at the mercy of the scripting, but I know if I were a SEAL who's supposed to be an expert in weapons systems and the scripting was false, I'd say something about it before going on international television and making an idiot out of myself. Watch the show...you'll see what I mean! So, Mythbusters is not so bad...

Ben
 
Ha! Just happened to think of this...speaking of getting info correct...off topic, but hey, it's funny!

My brother-in-law, although I think he's great, is kind of a loudmouth...you know, the kind who thinks he knows everything about everything. He's not much of a shooter/gun-nut but he thinks he is. One day when he was here at the farm hanging out one day we decided to do some shooting, so I went inside and grabbed a couple hands full of guns. I emerged with a Mosin 91/31, WASR Ak-47, CZ52, and a 12ga shotgun.

Well, he was familiar enough with the 12ga but proceeded to ask me the calibers of the other firearms.

BIL-"What does that shoot (pointing at the AK)"
Me-"7.62x39"
BIL-"Oh, yeah...that ol' 7.62 round...I have a buddy with an SKS that shoots the same round...hey, you know, that's what the M16 shoots too!"
Me-"Hm..."
I try not to correct him too much...he's 10 years my senior and I don't want to come off like a know-it-all, punk kid.

BIL-"Well, what does that big ol' long thing shoot (pointing at the 91/30)"
Me-"7.62x54 Rimmed Russian"
BIL-"REALLY? That shoots the same round as the M16 AND the AK then."
Me-"uh..."

So, we decide to shoot a bit. After about 20 rounds apiece out of the Ak, we shot the 91/30 with some slightly stout 200gr reloads I'd made...10 rounds apiece passed before...

BIL-"SON-OF-A-GUN! That bugger flat KICKS! You need to watch your reloads...I'm surprised you haven't blown yourself up yet!"
Me-"I'll keep that in mind..."

Next came the CZ52...

BIL-"Well, what's this guy? Kind of looks like a Glock."
Me-"That's a CZ52...sidearm for the Czech military for years."
BIL-"Cool. What round does it shoot?"
Me-"7.62x25 Tokarev."
BIL-"HOLY S#!T!!! 7.62?????????? That big ol' gun 'bout tore my shoulder off with the 7.62...AIN'T NO WAY I'm going to shoot that in a pistol..."

Actual conversation...Priceless!

I eventually explained a few things to him, but that was hillarious.
 
They just retested the myth and it came out to be Plausible. They used "period appropriate" weapons.

With armor piercing ammo also. He doesn't appear to be that bad of a shot either.
 
I wish I coulda seen it. Just got home from work dang 16 hour shifts

Tivo my good friend. Though I like Mythbusters it's not Tivo worthy, they play the show all the time.
 
Does anyone know what kind of 'match' bullet the Marines loaded for sniping purposes back then..

Quote:
They just retested the myth and it came out to be Plausible. They used "period appropriate" weapons.
With armor piercing ammo also. He doesn't appear to be that bad of a shot either.

I have heard(not tested) that when match/special ball wasn't available, both snipers and match shooters would use AP, because the hardened core made the bullet more consistent, and therefore more accurate, than M2 ball.

If I'm wrong, let me know. I dug that gem from way in the back of the old brain.

If I'm right, let me know, too. It'd be nice to know I'm not crazy.;)
 
Would be nice if they attempted such accuracy in the first place. Though I suppose it's hard to get such weapons in California.
 
After all their firearms tests remember this one; A tracer makes the trail from air friction on the painted tip, “Verified” by the FBI expert. Also tracers are illegal.

Take these statements apart;

A tracer makes the trail from air friction on the painted tip.

Absolutely wrong! Even 2 minutes on google would show they did no research whatever.

Verified by the FBI expert

Either he is a complete idiot or he knew they are and for chuckles gave them that statement. (My guess is this)

Tracers are illegal.

They are from CA I will give them a pass on that.

IMHO disregard any firearms related data as past history proves they are IDIOTS.
 
My 13 year old watched the revist tonight and made the comment, "they don't know much about guns do they?" I told him no they don't but then again no one know A LOT about everything. The biggest problem is that most people are just to ignorant to not "know what they don't know!" The whole premise of the show is that they are "experts" and "know" what they are doing. Reality is that as broad as their experience is, it doesn't ensure a working knowledge in many of the things they are supposed to be experimenting on. Also the whole Busted/Plausible/Confirmed thing, well many of the "Myths" such as the sniper one, are already confirmed. Their inability to reproduce the results is often more of a result of their lack of knowledge or lack of availability of an expert or even their unwillingness to ask for one's help. I do love the show, but they miss some very obvious factors in many of their experiments.
 
Their inability to reproduce the results is often more of a result of their lack of knowledge or lack of availability of an expert or even their unwillingness to ask for one's help

Not to argue but...

As for them not getting expert advice and help, they often get lots of help on their gun and explosion myths from experts, or at the very least people more knowledgeable. They have the retired FBI guy who has appeared on a number of episodes. The cop who was with them on tonights revist has appeared many times. When they did their trick shooting myth a while back they had an expert appear on that as well. Very rarely do they do a gun myth where they don't ask for a second opinion or get some sort of assistance by experts or law enforcement.

On a similar note:

I've been watching since season 1 and have seen every episode to date, despite the fact they arn't gun experts they do try and at least they attempt a lot of gun myths and approach guns in general very openly. Personally I can blow off any ignorant comments or approaches they might make because its entertaining just to watch. If it really bothers people that they aren't "gun experts" then turn it off and go read a gun magazine or serach the web for gun facts. Personally I get a chuckle sometimes at what they say or do but it doesn't bother me, like I said its all just good entertainment. I've also know many people that know a whole lot less than the mythbusters about firearms, but that doesn't stop them from acting like experts.

Thats my $.02
 
Last edited:
As for them not getting expert advice and help, they often get lots of help on their gun and explosion myths from experts. They have the retired FBI guy who has appeared on a number of episodes. The cop who was with them on tonights revist has appeared many times. When they did theyre trick shooting myth a while back they had an expert appear on that as well. Very rarely do they do a gun myth where they don't ask for expert opinion or get some sort of assistance by experts or law enforcement.

I was speaking in general, not specifically about guns, but even if they are "experts". how many "Experts" are their out there who have the knowledge to debunk each of the often obscure myths that the show touches upon? If I were looking for info on a Marine Sniper subject, there are other folks besides the FBI or a local police buddy, that I would probably contact first. :rolleyes: Say the folks at the sniper school. But hey, that's just me.

I enjoy the show, and they often seem to know quite a bit about the subjects they test (although it could just be MY ignorance on those subjects), but they do quite often pass off their failures as conclusive proof of somethings possibility/probability of occurance, when it is quite often just a lack of information that is the problem.
 
I agree.

I was speaking in general also, I wasn't really picking on what you were saying, you make a good point. There is no doubt there are better sources they could seek out on a lot f their myths. I was surprised they didn't try and find an actual sniper to do the shooting on tonights revisit. I didn't expect Jamie to be doing the shooting, especially with a limited number of scopes at their disposal.

Maybe they just have a lazy research team:D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top