Nagant Battle Carbine

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J

JCooperfan1911

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Here is a recent acquisition:

5-DB040-A1-6-D95-44-E2-9-F00-D1-E4-A3-ABDE91.jpg

A Nagant war carbine with integrated bayonet attachment. It was an exceptionally noisy experience firing this on the range. I did enjoy it however. This example is in fine condition and was constructed in the year of 1948 and is chambered for the .30 Russian cartridge. I would never take this over an M1 rifle but this would make a solid deer rifle.

-JCF
 
By ".30 Russian cartridge", are you referring to the 7.62x54mmR round? I see the 7.62x39mm referred to sometimes as the ".30 Russian Short." The former was used by the Mosin rifles, initially adopted by the Russian Empire in 1891. That shorter gun you have appears to be the carbine variant adopted in 1944. It was meant to be a more-mobile option for urban conflict, as firefights had often moved from open battlefields into cities during WWII. Is that what you have there? It certainly looks nice.

Guns like the SKS and (more so) the AK-47 displaced it fairly quickly, however.
 
I've had a polish m44 for about a year now. I spent a ton of time cleaning the cosmoline out of it. After all the effort I still haven't had it in me to try it out. I always seem to find the redish colored 7.62x54r spent cases on the ground at the range. I've often wondered with the current state of the world if Russian ammo like the red army, tula, wolf etc would dry up or get so expensive it wouldn't be worth trying to find.
 
Reduced loads with the 123 grain bullet work well in the M44. For hunting lots of good bullets in .310-.312", and S&B makes a nice 180 grain load with a soft point bullet. (or they used to, don't know what's on the market these days) At one time, there was a military reduced load practice ammo, I kind of think it was East German...or not. I forget. However, it's long gone now. Used to have a bunch of it.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Reduced loads with the 123 grain bullet work well in the M44. For hunting lots of good bullets in .310-.312", and S&B makes a nice 180 grain load with a soft point bullet. (or they used to, don't know what's on the market these days) At one time, there was a military reduced load practice ammo, I kind of think it was East German...or not. I forget. However, it's long gone now. Used to have a bunch of it.
Click to expand...

Just Sunday I was out with 5 different loadings for two different rifles. One a "fake" sniper sold by SOG years ago, and my newest one a Westinghouse. Both shot a 125gr just amazing with a light load of (I think) N130? That is what I want to say, at work so just going off old man memory.

I worked up loads from 125 up to ?150? and the groups out of the rifle with the scope liked the 125's fairly well. I gave up on the iron sight as I could just not see the darn thing, only shot one 5 round string with it, but it was a fairly good group with 3 very nice and two way off in left field that I think I can blame the shooter for.

Those 125's with the light loads make the rifle fun to shoot.
 
$200 in 2018 is/was more than fair. I stopped stocking up on them when the passed $120, which lasted for a couple years. I always sought out the hexagon receivers for keepers. I prefer the 91/30, but still have a very nice M44 which appeared to be unfired and un-issued when I got it. Then I issued it to myself. My favorite one I still have, is a hexagon receiver 91/30, looks like a real beater, I'm sure it saw combat, but the bore is good and it's accurate, and the action is good. Just something about that rifle, got the "vibe" if you know what I mean. I have that sighted in for the S&B 180's, but never did ever take it hunting. I think it was one I got for $50, when they first hit the market and if you bought a case of them they were $40 apiece. A friend of a friend bought some cases of them and sold them to his friends, and friends of friends for $50 each. Anyhow, I am a fan of those rifles and carbines.
 
The one of mine that "feels" the tightest is that Westinghouse. It has US markings and it just feels different from the other MN's I have. Not so "spongy" or squishy....not sure of the word, but I think you know what I mean. They are really fun rifles. That is the only one I have that still has the old russian Arshin sites.

It was really fun to shoot. To me the stocks are thin where you shoulder them and "full house" loads just give me a head ache. These light loads I worked up are the ticket, and by the group even with the "flyers" I could ding an 8" plate at 100 all day.

I also like the longer 91, something about it feels right.
 
I have a full length Russian 91/30 rifle and a carbine Chinese Type 53.
Frankly they seem to me to be the same weight if I am handed one or the other with my eyes closed and shouder it.
My carbine (1980s Navy Arms NJ import)lacked the bayonet and came with a Bubba'd semi-sporterized military stock that later I replaced with a Russian 1944 stock set.

Wikipedia Mosin-Nagant article
Specifications Mass
4 kg (8.8 lb) (M91/30)
3.4 kg (7.5 lb) (M38)
4.1 kg (9.0 lb) (M44)
 
I had a Tula M44 built in '46 that I paid $59 for back around 2007. I cleaned it up and put maybe 50 rounds through it - a box of PVRI and some surplus. It had much better fit and finish than the war production units but was probably the least accurate rifle I've ever fired. (Not saying that applies to anything other than that particular weapon.) Deploying the bayonet switched it from horizontal stringing to vertical stringing - but the fireballs were fun. Traded it for an unbuilt Tantal kit (since completed) and don't regret it. Still have a '91 that is at least minute-of-broadside-of-barn.
 
Remington1911 said:
The one of mine that "feels" the tightest is that Westinghouse. It has US markings and it just feels different from the other MN's I have. Not so "spongy" or squishy....not sure of the word, but I think you know what I mean. They are really fun rifles. That is the only one I have that still has the old russian Arshin sites.

It was really fun to shoot. To me the stocks are thin where you shoulder them and "full house" loads just give me a head ache. These light loads I worked up are the ticket, and by the group even with the "flyers" I could ding an 8" plate at 100 all day.

I also like the longer 91, something about it feels right.
Click to expand...

Always wanted a Westinghouse, but even back in the day they went for much more than the Ruska rifles. I'm jealous, especially the sights. It would be way too cool to have one with the Arshin sights.
 
DrDeFab said:
but the fireballs were fun.
Click to expand...

I had some yellow-tipped heavy ball at one time, (still do, but this was one particular batch) and talk about fireballs! Out of my M44, bright sunny day, huge fireballs. I bet they were really fantastic at night, but I never tired that.
 
DSC07639.JPG
There's the old battle-axe. Can't really see all the dents, dings and scratches. Two little nails repaired a split in the stock just behind the for-end cap back in the day. In the battle field? I don't think she was at Stalingrad, in better shape than that. But I do think she saw some action. Again, good bore, accurate rifle, and good action. It looks to have been re-barreled in 1935 at Tula. The bolt and magazine plate have matching serial numbers, but nothing else! My favorite 91/30. I like my arsenal re-furbs, and the M44, but this thing has personality.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Always wanted a Westinghouse, but even back in the day they went for much more than the Ruska rifles. I'm jealous, especially the sights. It would be way too cool to have one with the Arshin sights.
Click to expand...

I know a guy that has one. Been trying to get it off him for yrs. He scored that one, I think he paid $100 for it probably about 20 yrs ago. It's in fairly decent shape, and sure wouldn't mind it next to the 91/30 sniper and my 38 in the safe
 
That is a nice looking M44. I noticed a few at my LGS a week ago, so suspect a shipment came in recently, no doubt through a third party country. Handy form factor, big noise, big shove. Fun!
 
Ugly Sauce said:
View attachment 1120797

There's the old battle-axe. Can't really see all the dents, dings and scratches. Two little nails repaired a split in the stock just behind the for-end cap back in the day. In the battle field? I don't think she was at Stalingrad, in better shape than that. But I do think she saw some action. Again, good bore, accurate rifle, and good action. It looks to have been re-barreled in 1935 at Tula. The bolt and magazine plate have matching serial numbers, but nothing else! My favorite 91/30. I like my arsenal re-furbs, and the M44, but this thing has personality.
Click to expand...

Now that's a fine example. We used to whack away 25 yrs ago at a gravel put outside Lapeer MI on a Saturday afternoon, usually have 3 Mosins, Mauser, AKs, and about 1500 rds of that fine sardine can ammo. Boy I had perma bruise on my right shoulder for weeks during that spring and summer....
 
There was one of these at a gunshow in 2004 for $85 on a table. I tried to get it for $65, but it didn't work.
 
I have a Chinese Type 53, made in 1960. Haven't fired it in years. Always intrigued by the permanently attached bayonet-the great Russian general Suvorov said "The bullet is a fool but the bayonet knows what it is doing." Russian then Soviet practice was to rarely issue sheaths, instead keep the bayonet attached to the rifle at all times.On the other hand, a bayonet on a carbine which was meant to be issued to support troops ?
 
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