Nagant Revolving Pistol, Surprisingly Good

[Cosmoline]

I owned one of thess M95 Nagant revolvers a few years ago but didn't use it much. I recently picked a Tula 1937 rearsenaled one to go with a 1937 91/30, and did some initial shooting with it this weekend.

Since the actual 7.62 Nagant ammo is very expensive, I loaded it with a variety of lead and hp .32 H&R Mag. By a happy historical accident they fit quite well. Some folks report sticking and fractured cases but I experienced neither. Extraction with the archaic rod was no more difficult than a Single Action Army. Accuracy was good, though the sights are very fine. It seemed to shoot about an inch high at fifteen yards. I'm going to have to get a bench to determine how accurate the Nagant is, but off hand I kept my shots in a three inch zone. Double action is creaky but if you get in a good weaver and just concentrate on a smooth fast motion it's doable. Good exercise too.

The stocks are walnut and probably the most impressive thing about the handgun. The checkering is well done and they give a good grip in spite of the thin tubular shape of the handle.

The .32 H&R throws back a bit of a pressure wave but I detected only one spec of debris hitting my face in about 30 rounds fired.

Ideally I'd like to see about duplicating H&R level performance with the original Nagant brass, which should eliminate the pressure wave problem by sealing the barrel and cylinder together with brass.

It's a very rugged handgun and seems to be built with more steel than it needs for a little .32 cartridge. It reminds me of the Mosin-Nagant in that respect. And it would also make a nice truck or tackle box gun.

 

[steelhead]

They are great if you can get past the 50# DA and 12# SA pull . Here is a pic of my 1919.

Long live the revolution!

 

[Cosmoline]

That's a nice one.

My theory is the Nagant has to be behind the origins of "Russian Roulette." You can really see there how deep the bullets are seated, and how easy it would be for some depressed Imperial officer facing defeat on both the German front and to the growing mob to play "Russian Roulette" with a Nagant with six fired rounds and one live. Unlike other revolvers where you can easily see from the outside, the Nagant hides the bullets deep. You can also rotate the cylinder with the hammer down to randomize it.

 

[Roca]

Cosmo,

Newbie to THR here. I've got a 1943 refurbished M1985 from the Izhevsk Arsenal. I've noticed the match grade Soviet ammo shoots very accurately, although when I tried 32 S&W Long the results were disappointing. I haven't tried the 32 H&R Mag yet.

So I'm curious, how did the 32 H&R shoot compared to the standard Nagant ammo? I did split some cases with the 32 S&W Long, so I haven't tried the H&Rs yet.

The action on mine is unbelieveably stiff! I did the 8mm shim of the mainspring trick and it really helped the first 2/3s of the travel D/A and S/A was much better. But its still not usable in D/A in my opinion. I am considering drawing down the mainspring. If I could get the D/A better (doesn't have to be a Smith) I would shoot mine a whole lot more as they are quite fun otherwise.

Roca

 

[Cosmoline]

Re. the trigger pull, the answer is simple: "Grow stronger!" Actually the trick is to do it fast rather than stretching it out.

I haven't had a chance to shoot regular nagant target ammo out of the beast yet but from my experience the .32 H&R shoots more accurately than .32 S&W long.

 

[Roca]

"Grow stronger!"

Hehe, I can pull it, I just don't like to do it! However, I haven't tried pulling quickly either, so I will give that one a try.

from my experience the .32 H&R shoots more accurately than .32 S&W long

Cool. I'll give the H&Rs a try too.

Thanks

 

[Kor]

Outstanding - I've also got a matched set of 91/30 rifle and Nagant revolver, both 1926 Tula's in my case. I hadn't thought to shoot the revolver, I missed out on all the .32ACP cylinders, but I may just have to try the .32H&R Mags in mine.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I fired mine with the correct ammo, split several cases for some reason. It was old stuff I got a deal on a while back.

Trigger pull is HORRIBLE! And, unloading it is a real chore. However, it is a great, affordable piece of history.

 

[RON in PA]

Forget Russian Roullete with the Nagant, did you try to spin the cylinder? It doesn't spin. You can spin the cylinder of a break-open S&W Russian when it's open and spin the cylinder on a modern Colt/S&W or Ruger DA revolver when the cylinder is open. Remember the Deerhunter.

 

[Cosmoline]

Yeah, but it's also extremely easy to see where the live rounds are looking down the barrel of a S&W. While you can't spin the cylinder of a Nagant fast, you can spin it around with the hammer down.

 

[Stainz]

The proper 7.62x38r Nagant ammo is tapered - nearly like an M1 Carbine round (In fact, I reload modified .32-20 cases after sizing them with an M1 Carbine carbide die.). Straight wall cartridges, like .32 S&WL and H&RM, will bulge at the back to fill the void between them and the chamber wall, making them useless to reload. In fact, the lower pressure S&WL brass case is more likely to fail (split) than the harder H&RM case.

I am not sure what the Nagant's proof test was, rumor has it that the combat rounds, unavailable now, were ~100gr at over 1,000 fps. The Russian target ammo chrono-ed 575 fps from two of my Nagants, while the current Fiocchi Nagant ammo made 675 fps, both with 98-100gr bullets. The MagTech 98gr LRN .32 S&WL made 604 & 624 fps, and resulted in ~40% split cases. As the straight wall cases are slightly canted when loaded, the lead bullets - and copper cladding of JHP's - may shave off some material as it enters the inverted (convex) forcing cone of the Nagant's barrel, resulting in spitting. In any case, as only the proper Nagant rounds 'bridge the gap' between the cylinder's concave exit and that convex barrel entry with it's cartridge case, all other rounds will 'spit' some powder/residue. Be sure to wear good safety glasses.

Pierced primers shouldn't be much of a problem, as the Nagant has a breech block that raises into position behind that cartridge just prior to firing. A lot goes on when you pull that trigger! It is a neat piece of Victorian era engineering. The Belgian Nagant brothers were Europe's 'John Moses Browning'... almost. Check out the gunboards.com 1895 Nagant specific forum for more info. I have slicked up mine by polishing some internal areas - and proper lubrication - but they still are brutal on my trigger finger!

Stainz

 

[ojh]

My theory is the Nagant has to be behind the origins of "Russian Roulette." You can really see there how deep the bullets are seated, and how easy it would be for some depressed Imperial officer facing defeat on both the German front and to the growing mob to play "Russian Roulette" with a Nagant with six fired rounds and one live. Unlike other revolvers where you can easily see from the outside, the Nagant hides the bullets deep. You can also rotate the cylinder with the hammer down to randomize it.

Those in the picture are target loads. Bullets are clearly visible in Russian military loads and in current Fiocchi ammo. I reload for Nagant using Starline and Fiocchi cases, and seat the bullets 0.2" below flush, as Starline recommends.

 

[Cosmoline]

That's a good point.

 

[TallPine]

Great! Now we have the answer for: "what gun for Russian Roulette?"

 

[steelhead]

Great! Now we have the answer for: "what gun for Russian Roulette?"

Bet you didn't know that the Poles used the RADOM 1935 for their own version of roulette .

 

[Onty]

If you want to shoot 7.62 Nagant, I would suggest forgetting 32 H&R and 32-20 brass, and get Starline made 7.62 Nagant cases, see;

http://www.starlinebrass.com/ , go to Product Information & Descriptions

7.62 NAGANT - Why is length .060 shorter than Russian cases? During testing of the NAGANT cases, it was discovered that when firing cases (1.520) long with the Graf 98 grain bullet the mouth would flare on one side making extraction difficult. Secondly, when the mouth is deformed, most cases were deemed un-reloadable. The cases that could be reloaded split due to overworking of case mouth after third firing. We decreased powder in the load thinking this would help, but it had no effect. We then began decreasing case length until we reached 1.455 to 1.460. At this length, cases extend beyond cylinder, enter forcing cone, extract easily and reload fine.

What is the best system to load and reload NAGANT cases? Initial loading prime case, drop powder, hand drop bullet, and full length size. Note: Case must be well lubed and may need to go 1/2 way, back-up, re-lube and go again to achieve sizing without ripping head off. Reloading technique – Knock out primer (no sizing desired) then prime, drop powder, seat bullet (approx. .200 below case mouth using extra long seating stem provided in NAGANT die set) and full length trim size again. Note: They will size much easier this time.

 

[Cosmoline]

Those are great if you can find them in stock.

 

[Cosmoline]

I got the Lee hybrid .32-20 set off of Midway and worked up some handloading methods. I posted the results in the handloading forum. It wasn't easy, and it isn't perfect. But it works!

 

[aaronrkelly]

I bought one of these cause I have soft spot for cheap, old war relics. Its ugly and not very refined....but it goes bang.

Where else can you get a 60+ year old revolver in flawless condition for $90?

My 1942 Tula

 

[Manedwolf]

Now, one of the silenced versions...that'd be something to have.

 

[Cosmoline]

I believe THOSE pups are still in use. AFAIK they're the only repeating silenced firearms that throw no brass. And the Nagant cartridge is already pretty quiet. With a low powered wadcutter and a silencer you'd hear only the hammer fall and bullet slap.

 

[aaronrkelly]

Wonder why nobody has fitted a silencer to one of these things, that would be a hell of a conversation piece.......

 

[Cosmoline]

They have, it's called the Bramit device. The silenced Nagant was one of the NKDV and KGB's finest weapons, and I'm sure it still gets plenty of use. Enemies of Czar Putin still have a way of showing up with Nagant bullets in them, neighbors and passers by having mysteriously heard nothing. I've heard the CIA has one of these silenced Nagants at its museum, but I've never seen them for sale stateside as DD's.

Here's a writeup on a silenced Nagant, though as the writer points out there are a number of odd aspects to the piece which suggest it was done as a one-off discardable firearm.

http://guns.connect.fi/gow/nagant.html

This one is I believe the real Bramit. It resembles a prop from "Firefly," but that big piece of undoubtedly black steel out there is Russian. The big knurled knob for screwing it on, the preserved front sight, and the odd blockishness of it all scream of Soviet industrial technology. Big, blocky and solid.

 

[aaronrkelly]

Cosmo, I think I must have been misunderstood.

I know there is a silencer for the Nagant....

I was inquiring why nobody out there has made and fitted a silencer to this gun here in the states, seems there are alot of class 3 guys out there.

 

[Cosmoline]

I would think someone could replicate the Bramit with some basic equipment. I'm sure there are enough license holders to make a market. I'd love to see video of one in action.