National Language

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DocZinn: It's a huge drain on the budget when you consider all the forms and all the interpreters in all the languages they support. Then there are (at least here in California) the burdens on business, for example landlords are required to have all their forms on hand in seven different languages. Breaking the budget? Well, no single item is breaking the budget, but this is helping.
The forms/translators are a drop in the reservoir when compared to the cost of having the regulations in the first place. It's not the bilingual stuff that's costing all the money (insert small-government spiel #453 here).

DocZinn: And where did you get the idea I feel threatened?
My comment wasn't necessarily directed at you. You asked pax why some of the posts here were xenophobic. I was saying that some of them meet the definition of xenophobic because the writers clearly are threatened by the supposed loss of American culture to “the others.”

These threads are full of variations of "They ain't like us, grrrr!" That's xenophobia no matter how you dress it up. Even if the xenophobic fears are justified, they're still xenophobic.
 
Firstly, it's not English, it's American English. As a speaker of both I can tell you there are differences and moving here from England five years ago entailed learning a new language. Really.
Secondly, American English is the dominant form. There are many, many more millions of American English speakers globally than there are speakers of English. Even in England they are rapidly adopting American English (albeit without the spelling differences).
So here in the USA we speak a seperate and unique language to that of the UK. The language has (like the original English) been tempered by and blended with all manner of imported languages. European, African, Asian and South/Central American tongues have all added (or detracted, depending on your view) to the linguistic mix. It is a diverse language for a very diverse land.

But we do need a common voice, an identity, a default.
And we need to retain that. It isn't racist or xenophobic to ask any and all immigrants to speak the majority language. It isn't discriminatory to demand that we understand them and they understand us.
I have taught English to foreign students (TEFL/TESL) in the Czech Republic. They want to be taught American English so they can hopefully one day do business with the USA, or even move here. American English is solely regarded as the world's language of business. Who in their right mind would choose to live here and not speak it, or not even attempt to learn?

By legislating that it is a requirement is helping them and helping us.

And speaking as one who has fulfilled both the Naturalization and Immigration mandatory language tests I can tell you that although you are required to speak (American) English to legally migrate to the USA the acceptable standards are very low.
 
real_name: It isn't racist or xenophobic to ask any and all immigrants to speak the majority language.
No, it's not. But it is xenophobic to fear that we'll somehow lose America because <gasp> we've got a bunch "others" among us who don't speak English.

Other industrialized nations -- including parts of the U.K. where they seem to have misplaced their vowels -- do just fine with bilingual issues. We can too. Belgium does fine. Switzerland does fine. Spain did fine once it stopped trying to stamp out Catalan.

Even France is bilingual -- many speak a variant of German in Alsace. Even the French -- the FRENCH -- deal with road signs and whatnot in two languages up that way.

real_name: As a speaker of both I can tell you there are differences and moving here from England five years ago entailed learning a new language. Really.
Biscuits and gravy isn't as weird an idea as you might have thought, eh?
 
Other industrialized nations -- including parts of the U.K. where they seem to have misplaced their vowels -- do just fine with bilingual issues. We can too. Belgium does fine. Switzerland does fine. Spain did fine once it stopped trying to stamp out Catalan.

Very true. The Swiss actually have four official languages: Swiss German, French, Italian and Romansch (not sure what that is in English as I learned it in Swiss German while I was there, maybe Romany.)
The UK isn't bilingual, they/we have seperate languages in constiuent countries, such as Wales, and many, many dialects. The Government publishes forms in a multitude of foreign languages due to the high immigration rate. They also have whole areas with Urdu etc language street signs. I have no issue with this, I had no issue with it while I was there. I see it as symptomatic of the failure of the UK Government to mandate that people speak a common language and enforce that.
But here in the USA I seem to expect different. The USA has been absorbing large numbers of immigrants for a very long time, most if not all came speaking a foreign tongue, but consistantly over the years they assimilated and learned the common language. It generally takes three generations for the household to fully adopt and drop the mother tongue (source: NPR story yesterday).
The difference now is with groups like La Raza. IMO they are encouraging a conflict by non-assimilation. This (IMO) should be frowned upon and legislated against.
If you want to live here then join in, don't bring complications.
 
I hear a lot of talk about people being expected to assimilate into our culture, but no real explanation as to what that really means.
For example, I grew up in a neighborhood that had a large population of Italian
Americans. Most of these people were extremely proud of their heritage. It was common to see Italian flags displayed alongside American flags, a lot of the older people spoke Italian, and most people, whether they were born in Italy or the USA, identified themselves as Italians first.

Nobody demanded that they do anything different. Why is it that so many people are so threatened when Hispanic people display pride in their heritage?

I'm sorry to say it, but I get the impression this has more to do with fear of the Hispanic culture than anything else.

Please, to those who are demanding that people be required to "assimilate" into our society, define exactly what you mean by assimilation.
 
Please, to those who are demanding that people be required to "assimilate" into our society, define exactly what you mean by assimilation.

To reiterate, if you want to live here then join in, don't bring complications.

I don't care where you are from, this is America and all are welcome last time I checked, but life is easier for all of us if we communicate.
That means a common language.
If people won't do it out of common sense then I pity them.
 
Ettenboom...

Do you see 20 million Italians sharing a contiguous border hoppers with America who refuse to assimilate? Sending 20 billion a year back home?
Hit www.dictionary.com for the definition of "assimilate".

Biker
 
I'm aware of the dictionary's definition of assimilate, I more interested in what people are expecting the Mexicans and other immigrants to do.

I used the Italians as an example because they're one group that never fully assimilated. What they did was incorporate their culture into ours, and in my opinion greatly enhanced it. Is that something different than refusing to assimilate?

I agree that common sense dictates that those coming here should learn our language, for their own benefit, but I get the impression that people here just want the Hispanic cultures to just disappear, if not into American society then back over the border.
 
I always "thought" English was the International Language of Business. Akin to FAA requiring pilots to speak English.

I have / do have classmates from other Countries, they too "believed" English was/is the Int'l Language. These classmates speak, write in English.

Communication - pure and simple. Nothing else, just communication.

Picture Language, maybe we all need to go back to Picture Books, that way when Gubmint ban books, we can still communicate and draw pictures on our cells...we would have been charged as felons anyway for something.

Why keep something simple - when you can make it difficult?
 
real_name: IMO they are encouraging a conflict by non-assimilation. This (IMO) should be frowned upon and legislated against.
Frowned upon, yes. Legislated against? Well that seems to be a rather English approach to the situaion, don't you think?

If the anti-Spanish, anti-Latin-culture legislation gets too punitive, perhaps we'll see Hispanic versions of Hedge Schools
http://www.irish-society.org/Hedgemaster Archives/hedge_schools.htm

Biker: Do you see 20 million Italians sharing a contiguous border hoppers with America who refuse to assimilate? Sending 20 billion a year back home?
Border? Nope? But the Italians (and Irish) sent plenty of money back "home" -- probably equivalent amounts when factoring for inflation.

As for assimilation, it's a two way street. Immigrants have always changed America as much as it changed them.
 
American English isn't even a proper language, anyway. It's a total mess. However it's probably the Visa card of languages, globally.
 
Well that seems to be a rather English approach to the situaion, don't you think?

No, as I said previously the British failed to mandate any adoption of English and now have assimilation problems.

Which creates problems in communication.

For example:
The hottest news of the day is that the Manchester police force is going to learn Urdu to improve community relations. It is a common language spoken and understood by South Asian community in the whole of United Kingdom. For Muslims it is known as Urdu and Hindus call it Hindi.

British education system has never been serious in the teaching of foreign languages. The first wave of Muslims arrived with three or four languages including Standard English but the young generations of Muslims only know English in local accents. It is crucial for Muslim children to learn Standard English to follow National Curriculum; Arabic and Urdu languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots. They need state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers to receive balanced education. In my opinion those state schools where Muslim pupils are in majority may be designated as Muslim community schools. The move will help to improve community relations, which are at the bottom for the time being.


http://www.albalagh.net/letters/urdu_uk.shtml

Also, Zahc, I do think that American English is acknowledged as a 'real' language. As much as we should be careful with any wiki source read the following.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English
 
My comment was my own opinion, and not a widely held one.

Understood, my comments are equally opinion based, and worth what they cost.

FWIW, I dont think the sky will fall if we make people understand us.
 
Official language of the United States being ENGLISH is the only way to go and is long over due.
It's the predominate language of the entire country.
The Declaration of Independence, Constitution are in english.
It's not racist, it is bonding and uniformity.
It's not redundant, it saves money, space, resources, and time.
 
The forms/translators are a drop in the reservoir when compared to the cost of having the regulations in the first place. It's not the bilingual stuff that's costing all the money (insert small-government spiel #453 here).

Perhaps you can explain the costs to the taxpayer of a law that simply states that all official documents, government forms, etc., shall be in American English, and that anyone wishing to conduct government business in another language can pay for his/own interpreter.

As a small-government type, I'm really curious.

BTW ever heard of Switzerland?
 
If someone does not see the need for a national language, especially nowadays, it is only because he/she chooses not to see it. That is the most obvious conclusion of this thread.
 
If someone sees the need for a national language, especially nowadays, it is only because he/she is looking for an issue on which to focus their hostility. That is the most obvious conclusion of this thread.
 
With this thought in mind does it strike you as odd that the national motto of the United States of America, as established in 1776 is actually NOT in English.

Not at all odd. Latin is:

1. A dead language
2. Of great value to English as a supplement, as it forms many, many roots within its etymology

But Latin as a language is not, nor was it in 1776, spoken. Phrases were, but these in no way compete with English. If anything, they aid fluency in and comprehension of it. Other languages spoken here in their entirety and to even so much as the possible exclusion of English, however, facilitate the formation of the extremely destructive multiculturalism that we are seeing in America now.
 
CAnnoneer, Zrex

If you two want to get into a contest to see who can urinate the farthest, please take it to email or PM before you get this thread locked.

The plain truth of the matter is that this nation is comprised of many ethnicities, religions, political opinions and the like. The ONE thing that binds us as a nation is LANGUAGE. And that language is not Spanish, German or what have you. It IS American English.
 
he ONE thing that binds us as a nation is LANGUAGE

We as a nation have been bound together for roughly 230 years without having an official national language. Is our nation so weak that it will self destruct if we don't pass a law which is nothing more than a symbolic, meaningless divisive gesture?
 
If someone sees the need for a national language, especially nowadays, it is only because he/she is looking for an issue on which to focus their hostility.

Actually, I have always seen such a need. I'm not in the least bit hostile about it.

My parents grew up in Austria. They spoke Viennese, an old dialect indigenous to Vienna. But in school, they learned High German, the official language of Austria. With many people in central Europe speaking local dialects derived from old Germanic languages, a standardized form was necessary to conduct both government and private business.

Now, they live in the US. They've been citizens for years. And English is what allows them to communicate with an incredibly diverse group of friends and associates. Some were born here, some grew up in different parts of Europe, some come from Korea, Japan, Cambodia, China, Mexico, Thailand, Brazil, Afghanistan, Persia and I don't know where else. My parents have been to many of these places; they're in the gem and jewelry business, as a post-retirement venture. They're neither racists, nor xenophobes.

English has enabled them to get to know an incredibly diverse group of people throughout their lives. And they support the idea of a standard language, to help bring people together, not divide them.

I agree with them. I didn't just start thinking about this a few months ago, and neither did a lot of other people.

Rule of thumb: whenever someone tries to avoid an actual, reasonable discussion by throwing around the words "racist" or "xenophobe", or using "guilt by association", there are big holes in their argument.
 
We as a nation have been bound together for roughly 230 years without having an official national language.

We as a nation we not suffering from mass quantities of illegal aliens for 200 of those years. We had a nation full of people that respected the American traditions and customs, and did their best to adopt and assimilate into the same.

Is our nation so weak that it will self destruct if we don't pass a law which is nothing more than a symbolic, meaningless divisive gesture?

1. Now, yes, our nation is that weak, and still under attack by those who would destroy it with multiculturalism.

2. Having demonstrated that it is not, as you have suggested, meaningless, I will now assert that division in this case is quite desirable.
 
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