ND at Starbucks in Cheyenne

[Coyote3855]

Big news in my home town. Mods, feel free to move or close if this is not the correct time or place for this posting.

From the Cheyenne Tribune-Eagle Tuesday December 27


Teen cited after purse drop causes gun to discharge, narrowly missing a man

CHEYENNE -- A 17-year-old Cheyenne teen was cited Monday after she dropped her purse, causing the gun she was carrying in it to go off in a local coffee shop.

After the round fired, the girl said, “I think my purse went off!”

...[Copyrighted Material Removed]...

Folks, please remember to post only a line or two from any source of copyrighted material, and then include the link. Thanks.

Like so:

http://www.wyomingnews.com/articles/2011/12/28/news/19local_12-28-11.txt

 

[bikemutt]

Carrying those durned derringers cocked is plum crazy.

I used to have a .38 special 2-shot derringer, geez the force needed to cock the thing was substantial. Not to mention the 20 lb trigger pull.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

If you are carrying a firearm on or about your person and the trigger is not completely covered, you need to stop carrying and take some classes until you learn how to do so safely.

If you carry a firearm that does not have a drop safety: stop. Put it in the safe, take it to the range in a case, and enjoy shooting it. But do not place other's lives at risk due to your choice of an inferior weapon.

 

[CoRoMo]

Must have had the hammer cocked.

The gun was returned to the teen’s parents.

I love Wyoming.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Why was the gun returned to the parents? The father violated Federal law in giving the handgun to her! Do they normally not confiscate evidence of a Federal statute violation? The girl violated Federal law in carrying the gun as well.

What sucks is the Brady Bunch is going to point to an incident like this and jump up and down and scream, "SEE! SEE! We need more gun control!" Never mind or mention that the gun control laws already in existence were violated.

 

[CoRoMo]

The answer to those questions... because it's Wyoming. They know the difference between a useful and pointless laws, and they don't really think the federal gov needs to concern itself with the goings on in their state.

 

[Rob G]

The answer to those questions... because it's Wyoming. They know the difference between a useful and pointless laws, and they don't really think the federal gov needs to concern itself with the goings on in their state.

Whether Wyoming likes it or not they are part of the United States. Until they secede they're bound by its' laws, no matter how they feel about it.

Also, it was illegal under Wyoming law for her to be carrying it which makes NavyLCDR's comment somewhat valid. The gun should have been kept as evidence of a crime, not returned to her parents. Bad police work there.

 

[wannabeagunsmith]

Reason why I am mad is cause I am jealous.... wish I was allowed to carry a gun. But she should, of course have had training....like me.

 

[CoRoMo]

...somewhat valid.

You're right. Those cops should lose their job, maybe even see charges of their own. This girl is obviously a menace to society and shouldn't see the light of day. Crime indeed. This is gun crime, plain and simple. Where's the federal government when we need them most!! We desperately need them!!

 

[jackpot]

Punishing the parents and the daughter in this case with a federal whip wouldve been nothing more than pointless. NavyLCDR, did she injure anyone? No? Why send her and her folks to jail or fine them? smh

 

[Rob G]

This girl is obviously a menace to society and shouldn't see the light of day. Crime indeed.

According to the report, the bullet missed John Basile, 43, by about 12 inches. After nearly missing Basile’s head...

A gun being carried by a minor in her purse discharged and nearly struck an innocent man in the head. I never said she was a menace to society, those are your words, I simply accused her of committing a crime.

The girl was issued a city summons for possession of a firearm by a juvenile,

The city PD apparently agrees with me.

As for this:

You're right. Those cops should lose their job, maybe even see charges of their own.

If you insist. Evidence of a crime should always be kept in police custody until the charges are adjudicated. It's a mess up certainly, but what reasonable person would call for them to be fired or charged? I think you're being a little harsh.

Where's the federal government when we need them most!! We desperately need them!!

Sorry to hear that you need them so much. That's not really the case here in TX.

 

[CoRoMo]

...those are your words, I simply accused her of committing a crime.

I know. I never said you said that, so don't say that I said you said that. I'm with ya on this one; nail her to the wall! We keep packing prisons with inner city gang members and these rural gals are walking free. :banghead:

...what reasonable person would call for them to be fired or charged? I think you're being a little harsh.

Oh wait. We're going to use discretion in the judgment of their actions? I was only getting on board with you about the bad police practices. Why in the world should they be allowed to have any discretion with regard to her actions? Now I'm confused.

That's not really the case here in TX.

I can't get this straight I guess. Wyoming needs to kneel before the throne of federal government, but your state is okay to handle itself? Color me puzzled.

I was fully persuaded by you initially, and I was just about to change my sig line here, but you are making less sense now.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

CoRoMo,

Without using hyperbole, can you answer a question? Did she commit a crime by carrying a firearm in her purse?

 

[zxcvbob]

Whether Wyoming likes it or not they are part of the United States. Until they secede they're bound by its' laws, no matter how they feel about it.

Also, it was illegal under Wyoming law for her to be carrying it which makes NavyLCDR's comment somewhat valid. The gun should have been kept as evidence of a crime, not returned to her parents. Bad police work there.

If the feds want to come to Wyoming to enforce their [unconstitutional] law, they are welcome todo so. I don't see where that's the local cops' job.

In Arizona, the DOJ is suing Sheriff Arpaio (sp?) because they *don't* want him enforcing federal immigration laws.

 

[CoRoMo]

Did she commit a crime by carrying a firearm in her purse?

Of course, this is why she has a date in court. I never meant to say that she did nothing wrong, just that I am pleased at the composure the police used in their response. I'm glad those Wyoming officers used the discretion they did.

She made a stupid mistake, she'll pay for it, but hopefully she wont' be made an example of. It could be worse, every letter of the law could have been cast upon her, but it wasn't, as some may be lamenting.

Federal charges?

The last thing I'd want is the federal government getting involved in this girl's life, so you'll hear no complaints from me that she's walking free and that the gun isn't 'take off the streets' for all our sakes. If others want to grind their teeth and beat their fists that this handgun was returned to her parents, and that the feds aren't all over this, fine. Different strokes in these parts, I guarantee you. If this happens in their state, by all means, call up the feds and show everyone what real freedom looks like. I'd prefer Wyoming to stay the way it is.

I might have veered into a little hyperbole there, sorry.

 

[Rob G]

@zxcvbob - my statement about Wyoming being bound by federal law is more of a legal truth than a practical reality. I don't know how they handle that. And quite frankly I'm somewhat indifferent. However, the girl in question also violated a state law, which just happens to mirror the federal one, and that is the job of the local PD to enforce. Which apparently they're doing.

@CoRoMo - I was hoping that treating your obvious mockery and sarcasm as serious debate might lead us to actually have a serious intellectual debate. I guess I was wrong. Oh well.

 

[armoredman]

What is Wyoming's carry age law? I legally carried a firearm openly in AZ at age 16. The young lady needs a session in the woodshed and some "larnin's" before she carries again, that's for certain. I am certain the good folk in Wyoming know how to take care of the problem.

 

[CoRoMo]

I was wrong.

No problem. I don't see a point in debating with someone who can't be persuaded. I certainly don't think that I can be persuaded out of my beliefs, so it would probably be a waste of bandwidth. Sometimes though, the positions that people seriously hold, should be mocked, but not the individuals themselves. That would not be High Road.

 

[docnyt]

Yes the anti-gun people will have a heyday with this. And they'll be correct this time. If we can't teach responsible gun ownership to our children and cannot police our own ranks, then we lose ground.

 

[Rob G]

I don't see a point in debating with someone who can't be persuaded. I certainly don't think that I can be persuaded out of my beliefs, so it would probably be a waste of bandwidth.

Agreed. I'm likely the same way. Just a few closing thoughts for you in case my points were not well understood.

1. I aknowledge that we're all forced to live under federal law, but I'd really prefer that we weren't. As I told zxcvbob it's more of a legal truth than a personal conviction.
2. My belief that the police should have kept the gun wasn't about punishing the parents. It's just an evidentiary procedure thing. Ultimately I would have hoped they'd get it back at some point.
3. I do hope the court takes her youth and inexperience in to account. Yes she broke the law and that needs to be addressed. But it would be a shame if her 2nd amendment rights were lost forever. I hope the court can find a good compromise.
4. I'm probably just as much of a Smart--s as you.

Anyway, now's a good time to sign off this debate. Gun dealer just called and I need to go pick up my new AK. Merry (belated) Christmas to me!

 

[Coyote3855]

Cheyenne City ordinance says 18 years old to carry any type of firearm within city limits.

Wyoming state statutes: a person must be 21 years old to carry a concealed weapon.

Paraphrased from the linked article.

 

[7.62 Nato]

Whether Wyoming likes it or not they are part of the United States. Until they secede they're bound by its' laws, no matter how they feel about it.

Also, it was illegal under Wyoming law for her to be carrying it which makes NavyLCDR's comment somewhat valid. The gun should have been kept as evidence of a crime, not returned to her parents. Bad police work there.

Better tell the POSUS to start enforcing the immigration laws then. He's violating Federal and Constitutional law.

 

[CoRoMo]

Smart--s

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Hope the AK is fun.

 

[Strykervet]

Good grief! And Starbucks has been pretty good about standing up for 2A supporters. The one down the street from me was the site of a big open carry battle, and now you go there and it is common to see someone with their holstered pistol on the table outside next to the door (I personally don't think having it out like that is a good idea, but I don't agree with a lot of what the open carry guys do other than their right to do it). But to have an AD in a store, that isn't cool at all. Not at all. It makes us all look bad when that happens.

I'm against forced CCW classes in general, but I think that they should be provided at a low cost and highly recommended to new shooters and carriers. This could have been prevented, and at least nobody was hurt. Still unacceptable.

 

[Autolycus]

I hope she spends a long time in jail. She put other peoples lives in danger. If this was some 17 year old kid named Tyrone in the hood of Detroit would people be saying it is ok? In my experience with many gun owners it would. The fact is she broke the law and needs to be punished. Her parents should be punished if they allowed her to carry a gun and they should be liable for her actions. If she was a full fledged adult, meaning eighteen or over, then they would not be liable in my view. My views are my own and are not necessary the view of the law.