NYPD brass to cops: Stop using Kahr K-9 semi-automatic pistol as an off-duty gun

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Funnily enough this current veer in the topic started with a reaction against someone saying "they should have zero".

Bozwell let's just say that I agree with your statement that "Zero ND's should certainly be the goal". :scrutiny: Yes indeed.
One of the things a degree in Engineering taught me is that in theory, theory and practice are the same but in practice theory and practice are different. In theory, every process is perfect but in practice there is some percentage of any process that will deviate from perfection. Once that is understood then the contributing factors can be examined and hopefully eliminated or minimized.
"No where have I said human imperfections should excuse mistakes (including ND's)."

I didn't see anyone making that claim.
The gun community accepted that humans make mistakes a long time ago, hence the four rules we *should* all live by.

Try this. Shoot someone. Then when the cops come, blame the trigger of your gun. I'm going to bet that "sorry officer, but people make mistakes" is not going to get you very far. It's a BS excuse plain and simple.

That post certainly implies it. Acknowledging that, statistically speaking, ND's will happen over a large enough sample size, regardless of the guns used, is not the same as saying those same statistics excuse any ND's or give you the right to go out and shoot someone. :scrutiny:

In any event, I don't really care to debate it further. I'm tired of re-explaining my posts that people obviously aren't reading in the first place. ;)
I agree you should expect ZERO accidental discharges. I was in the Marine Corps for four years as an MP. There were NO ADs from any of the MPs I worked with. I've spent 16 years working in another agency. There are armed posts where every 8 hours the duty weapons are cleared, handed to the incoming officer, and are reloaded for duty. I've only heard of one accidental discharge when the person was re-holstering and had his finger on the trigger. (Of course the answer was to then take all of that style of holster out of the inventory and change to a vastly inferior one. ) ZERO is hard to accomplish but you should be as close as possible to it. The NYPD seems to take it as a given and blames the weapons when it happens.
I really just think that the NYPD just don't know what they're doing.

Is it still true that 90%+ of shots fired by NYPD are misses? Not such a good stat for such a crowded city.
As a former P.O.& SWAT instructor, I must say on aforce that size it is all but impossible to eliminate A.D.s or N.D.s. It is called the human factor! People will do what they are trained to do most of the time! But not always. Training will help, but it must be reinforced. Repeatedly as much as possible. Evan that willnot stop them completely! This will never stop, just a fact of life. Just because a personal has the job don't mean they know how to do it! I have seen instructors do it! No matter the gun it comes down to the one useing it!
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