TimH
Member
Count your blessings
ND last night. Listen and learn.
- Thread starter Brad Johnson
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Brad Johnson
Member
Found while digging through some of my old posts for an unrelated item.
BTT as a reminder for all.
Brad
BTT as a reminder for all.
Brad
Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
With .22s especially, look and feel into the chamber. Extractors fail to pull out live rounds more often than we expect.
Dave Dembinski
Member
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- Mar 1, 2005
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- 249
Thanks for bumping, Brad. Those of us who've had NDs have gained, if nothing else, an exceedingly visceral reminder of the necessity of safety rules. Spending a few hours freaking out wondering if the police are going to show up over that shot, spending a few nights unable to sleep wondering about what-ifs, spending a few weeks feeling like the biggest hypocrite alive when you tell other people about gun safety... it all adds up to spending a lifetime with a slightly louder angel on your shoulder telling you to check that gun just one more time before pulling the trigger.
James T Thomas
Member
never can be too careful
Brad:
You confirm one of my statements as to some benefits of revolvers. I was surprised at the convoluted argument here in THR that I received on this, but I am of the opinion that the revolver is more readily examined for loaded or unloaded condition than the semiautomatic pistol. Especially for the novice shooter. I even find examining the chamber for a round in place, in pistols, to be chancy when just glanced at. Therefore I make it a procedure to insert my finger in there and feel. Some chambers obscure the round well.
And as you had happen; the magazine is another source to be checked.
I witnessed an ND with a 1911 pistol that resulted in the button being cut off from the man sitting beside the man holding the gun. He was preparing to clean it. It resulted in a fist fight and bitter feelings.
Thanks for posting.
Brad:
You confirm one of my statements as to some benefits of revolvers. I was surprised at the convoluted argument here in THR that I received on this, but I am of the opinion that the revolver is more readily examined for loaded or unloaded condition than the semiautomatic pistol. Especially for the novice shooter. I even find examining the chamber for a round in place, in pistols, to be chancy when just glanced at. Therefore I make it a procedure to insert my finger in there and feel. Some chambers obscure the round well.
And as you had happen; the magazine is another source to be checked.
I witnessed an ND with a 1911 pistol that resulted in the button being cut off from the man sitting beside the man holding the gun. He was preparing to clean it. It resulted in a fist fight and bitter feelings.
Thanks for posting.
Bobo
Member
Thanks for overcoming your embarrassment and sharing your lesson with us!
S.P.E.C.T.R.E.
Member
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- Jul 18, 2006
- Messages
- 244
That's the beauty of the four rules: a failure to follow any one of the rules still means that nobody dies.
beaucoup ammo
Member
Thanks, Brad. I've been carrying cocked and locked for the last month..but unchambered the round after reading your post. Absolutely no reason for me to do that other than, in the back of my mind, I've felt a little uneasy about that mode and was trying to overcome my reluctance.
Situations are unrelated, but the prospect of a ND has lurked in the back of my mind. Just one of those things I have to work on.
Your experience was just enough to push me back to a wheelgun for concealed carry..for a while anyway. Thanks for sharing that..I admire you for doing so. "The Four Rules" can never be over stated.
Situations are unrelated, but the prospect of a ND has lurked in the back of my mind. Just one of those things I have to work on.
Your experience was just enough to push me back to a wheelgun for concealed carry..for a while anyway. Thanks for sharing that..I admire you for doing so. "The Four Rules" can never be over stated.
In addition to the Four Universal Rules, the very first Rule of Firearms Instruction is.....
Never, Ever, have live ammunition anywhere in the vicinity of the firearm(s) you are using to instruct. Never!!
Instructing at a Range where you're later going to have your student shoot, yes. But no ammo whatsoever availible until you are ready to load and fire downrange.
L.W.
Never, Ever, have live ammunition anywhere in the vicinity of the firearm(s) you are using to instruct. Never!!
Instructing at a Range where you're later going to have your student shoot, yes. But no ammo whatsoever availible until you are ready to load and fire downrange.
L.W.
Hi guys, newbie to posting here but I've been reading for weeks. Great site! Anyway I had to share this experience. I and a friend were in the woods plinking away with our .22 revolvers. Both of us being safety conscious would always count our shots (each others). After 6 shots each we would reload. My friend had just fired off his 6th round and pulled the trigger one more time and the gun fired a 7th time!! We were both taken back by this because we were not counting out loud! We agreed that it was time to put them up.
Stevie-Ray
Member
Brad, at least you performed the most important step properly.
No matter where I am, I never fail to do this. Upstairs, it's out the doorwall and pointing to the ground. Downstairs, it's into my old couch, beneath which is the cement floor. The 2 NDs I've had were with the guns pointed at the target, thank God, but they were lousy shots.
No matter where I am, I never fail to do this. Upstairs, it's out the doorwall and pointing to the ground. Downstairs, it's into my old couch, beneath which is the cement floor. The 2 NDs I've had were with the guns pointed at the target, thank God, but they were lousy shots.
Brad Johnson
Member
BTT because safety can't be reiterated often enough.
Brad
Brad
Cannonball888
Member
I'm glad no one was hurt. But can someone tell me how one can not notice a round in an inserted magazine when looking at the chamber?
Brad Johnson
Member
Cruddy ammo, dark room, and severe grip angle.
Brad
Brad
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Brad...Kudos for doin' the "Man Up" thing and sharing this with us as a reminder that it can happen to anyone at any time whenever guns are on the table. You can't count on what somebody else will do while your back is turned. If the gun leaves your possession or is out of your sight for even a second...always check it to see that it's clear.
We can avert tragedy...even if we fail to follow all the rules...except the one that demands that we point the gun in such a direction so as to prevent destroying anything that can't be replaced with money.
Yes. It's loaded. it's always loaded.
Be aware of where the muzzle is pointed. Always.
Don't touch the trigger until you are prepared for the gu to fire. That's what the trigger does.
Be sure of your target, and what lies behind it. Always.
Be safe, all.
We can avert tragedy...even if we fail to follow all the rules...except the one that demands that we point the gun in such a direction so as to prevent destroying anything that can't be replaced with money.
Yes. It's loaded. it's always loaded.
Be aware of where the muzzle is pointed. Always.
Don't touch the trigger until you are prepared for the gu to fire. That's what the trigger does.
Be sure of your target, and what lies behind it. Always.
Be safe, all.
Templar223
Member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
- Messages
- 309
Thanks for your candid explanation of a ND.
Personally - and I don't mean this as sounding like I'm on a high horse because it could happen to anyone of us in a weak moment - I literally double check the gun if I'm going to pull a trigger.
Open the slide, see daylight in the mag well, see an empty chamber (including locking open the slide and using tactile verification if I can't clearly see into the chamber).
Then I repeat the process over. It feels 'stupid', but only after that second look will I then carefully pull that trigger while pointing in a safe direction. I even have an old, ill-fitting ballistic vest (LOL... it was a gift from a LEO friend... must have been worn by a 300# man and I'm 98 pounds soaking wet) in my toy room that serves as a "safe direction".
It is because of NDs that I prefer to leave my gun in the holster where possible. The less I handle loaded guns unnecessarily, especially when tired or distracted, the less likely I am to hear any clicks that go "BOOM!".
Everyone should have their own procedure and follow it religiously. This is just what works for me.
John
Personally - and I don't mean this as sounding like I'm on a high horse because it could happen to anyone of us in a weak moment - I literally double check the gun if I'm going to pull a trigger.
Open the slide, see daylight in the mag well, see an empty chamber (including locking open the slide and using tactile verification if I can't clearly see into the chamber).
Then I repeat the process over. It feels 'stupid', but only after that second look will I then carefully pull that trigger while pointing in a safe direction. I even have an old, ill-fitting ballistic vest (LOL... it was a gift from a LEO friend... must have been worn by a 300# man and I'm 98 pounds soaking wet) in my toy room that serves as a "safe direction".
It is because of NDs that I prefer to leave my gun in the holster where possible. The less I handle loaded guns unnecessarily, especially when tired or distracted, the less likely I am to hear any clicks that go "BOOM!".
Everyone should have their own procedure and follow it religiously. This is just what works for me.
John
SASS#23149
Member
It's call complacency.(sp)
speaking as one who also has 30 years gun handeling experience,it does set in .
The ND was a bad enough thing to happen,but to have it happen under these circumstances is doubly embarrasing.
Glad you knew to keep the muzzle away from people.
I for one do NOT 'drop the hammer' on an 'empty' gun. I"ve read WAY too many reports like this to want to do so.
atblis
Member
What
I always look at the chamber as the slide is closing. Basically, I watch the slide close on an empty chamber. Get's around the magazine being in the gun thing.
I always look at the chamber as the slide is closing. Basically, I watch the slide close on an empty chamber. Get's around the magazine being in the gun thing.
Yep, that's more or less what I do. Works so far. I'll do that repeatedly if I am handling a gun in a store or whatever.
frogomatic
Member
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- Aug 12, 2007
- Messages
- 522
not the first ND I know of, won't be the last. I too learned the lesson the hard way after I blew a hole in my living room wall with my 45. I hope your experience with ND will have the same effect on you that mine did on me. I'm now borderline paranoid about checking, double checking, and triple checking my firearms to prevent any ND's. Live and learn, sir, live and learn.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Ritual
Happily, all of my AD/ND events have been at the range with safe backstop.
Most embarrassing moment, showing wife the XD-40: Drop mag from pistol, "See, dear, one of the safety features of this model is that it won't fire without the magazine . . ." Point pistol downrange without mag, pull trigger. BANG! Oh, crap! No mag disconnect in the XD.
However.
When I turn in for the night and lay out my gear (flashlight, pistol, etc.) I completely unload the pistol. Always. Drop mag, lock slide back, check chamber. And then I reload it. Deliberately.
For a few seconds, it's unloaded, and I verify that. And then I make sure it is positively loaded again. Always. Even with the revolver. Always.
It's a ritual.
Its purpose is to assure myself that the pistol is fully loaded and loaded with the correct ammo.
There is one more thing I need to do, and I might recommend it for anyone who keeps a pistol: I need to get a sand bucket.
I don't mind running the vacuum cleaner if I completely screw up and ND/AD over a sand bucket.
Not having to repair the house or pay hospital bills? Priceless.
For everything else, there's MasterCard.
Happily, all of my AD/ND events have been at the range with safe backstop.
Most embarrassing moment, showing wife the XD-40: Drop mag from pistol, "See, dear, one of the safety features of this model is that it won't fire without the magazine . . ." Point pistol downrange without mag, pull trigger. BANG! Oh, crap! No mag disconnect in the XD.
However.
When I turn in for the night and lay out my gear (flashlight, pistol, etc.) I completely unload the pistol. Always. Drop mag, lock slide back, check chamber. And then I reload it. Deliberately.
For a few seconds, it's unloaded, and I verify that. And then I make sure it is positively loaded again. Always. Even with the revolver. Always.
It's a ritual.
Its purpose is to assure myself that the pistol is fully loaded and loaded with the correct ammo.
There is one more thing I need to do, and I might recommend it for anyone who keeps a pistol: I need to get a sand bucket.
I don't mind running the vacuum cleaner if I completely screw up and ND/AD over a sand bucket.
Not having to repair the house or pay hospital bills? Priceless.
For everything else, there's MasterCard.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
A two-foot thick stack of dry newspapers will serve the same purpose without havin' to run the vacuum cleaner...
Cheers
DoubleTapDrew
Member
Ain't that the truth. Almost had a ND with a 10/22 when I was about 12. Had just come back from a weekend of varmint shooting and we're in the basement back home unpacking gear. A quick pull of the bolt, nothing comes out, rifle is handed to me. I do the same and quickly glance in there, let it slap home, and start to shoulder the rifle...wait, something wasn't right. Look in there again under the light. Thats...the rim of an unfired CCI Mini-Mag in the chamber! Rack the bolt a few times and it's stuck in there. Delicate cleaning rod action removed it.
That's the only time I can recall that gun having a failure to extract, and (naturally) it's a live round, discovered back at home where it would have done the most damage if a ND occurred.
Double and triple check those .22 chambers!
For most semis, because of the indexing hood above and to the rear of the chamber, it is easier to view the chamber from the side. Looking into the chamber is also easier from the rear. The ejection port of most semis (unlike Beretta 92-type guns) covers the chamber half way up the side. Pull the slide back slightly just enough to look into the chamber but not far back enough to lock the slide back and see under the chamber and into the magazine well and you'll never see the top round.
Charles S
Member
I am glad no one was hurt. We all can learn from this.
ROTFLMA...Sorry man, that was funny. Glad you shared.
ROTFLMA...Sorry man, that was funny. Glad you shared.
Brad Johnson
Member
BTT for the semi-annual reminder of how stupid I was, and a hope that someone else will learn from it.
Brad
Brad
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