Neck lubricant for .223?

[JRadice45]

Hey guys, I have a question on resizing. I have resized probably 1k cases at this point but i'm still not sure i'm doing it correctly. I am using a lee single stage press with a lee full length resizing die and dillon spray lube.
During resizing I noticed some of cases actually grew in length, I am assuming this is due to the fact that I don't lube the case necks. Is the expander catching on the case neck and pulling/stretching it out? If so what kind of lube can I use and how should it be applied?
Also how can I check for case head seperation on my brass with basic tools, as I notice a ring on some of the brass, but it seems like it is die machining marks scratching the brass around the web area.
As for adjusting the die per my rifles chamber... that didnt go too well. Most of the once fired brass I had would fit in the chamber without sizing, but not drop in with the "rattle fit" of factory ammo, however it would go in with a bolt assist tap to snap the extractor over the case rim. The factory cases would go in the same way with a tap on the bolt assist so a little more detail as to how I set up my sizing die would be appreciated as well. I have tried the touch the shellplate and then 1/4 turn more method and I was getting backed out primers. Leads me to believe I'm pushing the shoulder back too far. I have also tried just touching the shellplate without the 1/4 turn and same results. Factory non-crimped ammo does not result in backed out primers. I am using AA2230 with cci-400 primers. Thanks guys - J
I have also polished up the decap pin/neck expander with a dremel, buffer wheel, and some jewlers rouge. It feels very slick and most of the maching marks are gone now. Could this keep my brass from growing, or is it better to still use neck lube?
Thanks guys - J

 

[jhansman]

I just full-resized about 1K of LC .223, and all of them grew anywhere from .003-.005" in length in the process. I use Imperial Sizing Wax, but I doubt it matters just what lube you use. These rounds will eventually be loaded into an AK, so I am not terribly concerned about OAL, except to the degree that the rounds feed properly. In my bolt .223, I do not do a full resize once the brass has been fire formed, but instead use Lee' collet neck sizing die. This, plus determining the optimum OAL for that gun, have resulted in a very accurate shooting rifle. In any case, always lube when you full resize; otherwise (even with carbide dies) you are asking for a stuck case.

 

[rcmodel]

Use neck lube.

If you use a lube pad, just dab the mouth on it as you pick up each case.

(Actually, only every 3 - 4 rounds needs to be dabbed!)

I use a nylon bore brush either sprayed lightly with One-Shot, or rolled on a pad to pick up some lube. Then clean/lube every case neck with it before sizing

It don't take much to make a world of difference in all kinds of problems sizing dry necks cause.

Once you get that under control, you can worry about correct die setting to control headspace.

rcmodel

 

[snuffy]

All this BS about neck expanders "pulling the neck forward", is just that BS! You say you're spraying with dillon spray lube. Enough of that is getting inside the necks to lubricate them, it isn't your neck expander ball that's causing your brass to be too long.

The neck is sized forward as part of the sizing process. The body, shoulder, and neck all get reformed during the sizing process. If the fired brass has been lengthened, when FL sizing, the brass is made shorter when the shoulder is pushed back. When that happens, the brass flows forward making the neck longer.

I HAD that happen BEFORE I got a RCBS precision mike. I found that for my AR I did not need to push the shoulder back more than .004. That resulted in my cases not growing at all!

 

[agd1953]

It's normal for cases to get longer after re sizing. this is due to having just squeezed the case and it has no were to go but to make the case longer. Like a tube of toothpaste. Trim them down to specs and enjoy.

 

[ranger335v]

"During resizing I noticed some of cases actually grew in length, I am assuming this is due to the fact that I don't lube the case necks. Is the expander catching on the case neck and pulling/stretching it out? "

Listen to Snuffy.

Want proof? Check the length of a fired case. Pull the expander/decap rod, FL size that case normally and check the length again. The expander didn't cause the growth.

As Snuffy suggests, almost all case "stretch" is due to excessive resizing, not the expander or pressure. Using my RCBS Mic, I limit my FL shoulder set back to about .002", on average. I say "about" because brass springback prevents it from being more exact.

 

[NCsmitty]

I have a Lyman case neck lubing station that has a mica reservoir and three different sized brushes. If I run into a batch of sticky necks, that will solve the problem without contaminating the inside of the case with lube.

I have tried the touch the shellplate and then 1/4 turn more method and I was getting backed out primers. Leads me to believe I'm pushing the shoulder back too far. I have also tried just touching the shellplate without the 1/4 turn and same results. Factory non-crimped ammo does not result in backed out primers.

You'll have to reach a happy medium on the amount of sizing that you will need. Just enough to allow an empty case to chamber normally. The shiny ring is normal, to a point, due to the friction of the sizing die. I don't have an answer when that ring will translate into a case head failure, just watch for a slight groove developing at that spot. That is the brass stretching to a dangerous point from multiple loadings.
The important question has to do with the factory ammo. Does it recoil, or seem more powerful than your reloads? If so perhaps your charge of aa2230 is still too low. Lower pressure loads can cause primers to back out because of the timing of the case release in the chamber. DO NOT exceed recommended charges listed.
Good move smoothing out the expander ball as long as you don't go crazy, it all helps.

NCsmitty

 

[lordgroom]

I was also going to suggest that primers backing out can be a sign of pressure being too low.

Cases stretch after re-sizing. That is why you trim after re-sizing. It is also why people choose neck sizing dies, bushing or collet neck sizing dies, or an RCBS x-die to limit even eliminate case stretching,

 

[JRadice45]

Thanks for the replies guys. I do know lower pressure can cause backed out primers. If you check my other thread http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=394550
aa2230 a few insights.... You will see I got flat primers at or near the starting loads, then flat and backed out primers at 24 grains... trying to figure out if its just the norm for this rifle or what...

 

[WNTFW]

You can use a paperclip bent to drag the inside of a case to check for cracks developing. There is a ring where the brass quits expanding outward to contact the die near the head.

The ABC's of Reloading & other books have some example of case failures.

 

[JRadice45]

I have the ABC's and while its a good book, I don't remember seeing much about how to mechanically check for a case failure in development.

 

[highlander 5]

If you have Redding or RCBS dies you can get a carbide expander that way you don't have to lube. Hornandy makes the expander for the RCBS dies.

 

[JRadice45]

Sorry I forgot to answer your other questions smitty.
Most of the loads felt underpowered compared to the umc factory ammo. The 24 grain charge felt similar though still slightly below the factory ammo.