need advice rifle project low cost 1000 yard gun

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socalbeachbum

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I've been looking at the lower cost bolt actions by Remington, Savage, Howa, and Ruger and thinking on getting one for open desert fun, just informal competing against friends at 1000 yds or so. Not sure what to get. Is there anything that is a deal that really stands out accuracy wise?

I'm planning to use off the shelf match grade ammo, so that narrows things down. Have looked at scopes, the Millet 6-25x and a Leupold 6-18x, a Weaver Kaspa 6-18. Looking at .308, 6.5 creed, and .300WM. Don't have a budget per se, just don't care to spend more than needed. Suggestions?
 
For bench? Easy. Savage 12FV. Put good glass on it, and go. You'll be well under $1k. It's the best value by far in long range.

Edit: The 12FV is not exclusive to Cabelas. But they offer it at the best price.
 
Savage 12LRP, 6.5:

Savage-12LRP-e1452363729875.png

Ruger precision rifle 6.5:
models-top.jpg

Vortex Viper PST ($999):
VORPST3155-r.jpg

If I did my math right. The 6.5 creedmoooor only needs around 30moa elevation at 1000 yards? I'd love to be able to go from 300 to 1000 without touching the scope knobs.
 
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Just got the Guns and Ammo in today and has a review, Ruger now has the precision rifle in .223/5.56 (kind of a hybrid through at chamber) using ACIS mags. Can seat way out beyond AR's with VLD long bullets that can make the round a legitimate 800-1000 yrd rifle. List price about $1300

Savage another good buy in this dept. with plenty of parts, barrels, and accessories as well.
 
Savage 6.5 Grendel; creedmoor has more oomph than is needed at that range unless you are shooting steel. Your accuracy & lack of developed flinch will also surprise everyone with much larger magnum cartridges.
 
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For bench? Easy. Savage 12FV. Put good glass on it, and go. You'll be well under $1k. It's the best value by far in long range.

Edit: The 12FV is not exclusive to Cabelas. But they offer it at the best price.
Thats the way I am going...

Russellc
 
What do you want to accomplish at 1,000yrds?

Remington 700 ADL .243win = $350-400 at Wally World
Boyd's Pro-Varmint Stock = $125
Score-High Pillar Block Kit = $65
EGW 1pc 20MOA rail = $65
Burris Signature Zee Rings = $45
Vortex Viper HSLR MOA/MOA 6-24x50mm FFP = $650

$1350, all in, with an FFP ranging/windage reticle. Feed it a steady supply of 105grn A-max's (now ELD-M's) or 115Dtac's over 4350 and you'll be fully functional at 1,000yrds. It'll be a blind mag, which won't matter in the least for long range shooting until you commit to competing and will help you keep your barrel heat down better than a detachable mag.

Replace the 700 with a $350-400 Savage, Ruger, Tikka, or Howa and you'll be just as good of shape.
 
Have looked at scopes, the Millet 6-25x and a Leupold 6-18x, a Weaver Kaspa 6-18/
Forget the Weaver Crapska. Its the scope Savage uses in some of its package rifles and speaking fron experiance its junk. Look at a Weaver T series or V series
 
try shooting the 6mm 105gr a-max with the standard 243-6mm twist and see where you get, you will need a very fast twist for that bullet., i shoot a rem 700 heavy barrel(26") 7mm-mag with 162-v-max at 3000-3100 fps for my long range target-hunting to 1000 yards(I limit my hunting range to 700 yrds). my rifle weights 12.5 lbs scoped-loaded so recoil is not bad. that load gives 1600-1700 fps-900-1000 fpe at 1000 yrds. with a 100 yard zero the drop is a little over 300". getting the right yardage is no problem with todays range finders, leaving only the wind to worry about and that can be a problem with any bullet. I have 6.5 rifles and I like them, buts its the 7mm mag for me. eastbank.
 
try shooting the 6mm 105gr a-max with the standard 243-6mm twist and see where you get, you will need a very fast twist for that bullet., i shoot a rem 700 heavy barrel(26") 7mm-mag with 162-v-max at 3000-3100 fps for my long range target-hunting to 1000 yards(I limit my hunting range to 700 yrds). my rifle weights 12.5 lbs scoped-loaded so recoil is not bad. that load gives 1600-1700 fps-900-1000 fpe at 1000 yrds. with a 100 yard zero the drop is a little over 300". getting the right yardage is no problem with todays range finders, leaving only the wind to worry about and that can be a problem with any bullet. I have 6.5 rifles and I like them, buts its the 7mm mag for me. eastbank.

Agreed, for instance the 700 ADL mentioned earlier is a 9.125" twist, with a blind magazine so you can't seat out. My Ruger RPR in .243 Win has a 1-7.7" twist for stabilizing the 105-115s. 6mm is an excellent LR bullet IF you've got the correct twist to stabilize the long target bullets, regular .243 or 6mm.....not so much.

A friend of mine and I both have Ruger RPRs, his in 6.5C and mine in .243, both of us are running Vortex scopes his is a 6-24X PST mine is a Razor HD 5-20X and so far both of our rifles have been able to shoot 5 shot groups under .5 MOA with handloads.

For getting into LR "on the cheap" the RPR is a very viable option. Mount a scope and go.....

Chuck
 
I like a least a 24" barrel and prefer a 26"barrel for my long range target-hunting. I just bought a rem sps 700 SA in .260 with a 24" barrel for close to 500.00, but have not started to work with it. eastbank.
 
"...the lower cost bolt actions by..." Isn't the action that's lower cost. It's the whole rifle. And that's due to the stock material, finish used and the quality of the barrel. At 1000 yards or so, you'll want a long barrel and heavy for calibre bullets. You really need to decide how much money you want to spend. Look at the Savage 12's.
The 18 and 25x scopes will be too much magnification and weight if you plan on hunting with it too.
"...planning to use off the shelf match grade ammo..." Requires that you try a box of as many brands as you can(limited choices in some calibres) to find the ammo your rifle shoots best. Also limits your choice of bullet.
"...scope Savage uses in some of its package rifles..." Are no longer the low end junk Simmons they used to use. All Weavers, that are not "Crapska", Nikons or Bushnells now.
"...need a very fast twist for that bullet..." 1 in 9.125 works just fine with a 105. Been using Speer 105 SP's for eons. No hunting anything but varmints with an A-Max. Those are target bullets, not for deer hunting.
 
the best 1000 yard 6mm shooters are using faster twists for those weight bullets and even at 3000-31000 fps at 1000 yards they are only carrying 1400-1500fps and 500-550fpe with a close to 300" drop with a 100 yard zero. eastbank.
 
I've been looking at the lower cost bolt actions by Remington, Savage, Howa, and Ruger and thinking on getting one for open desert fun, just informal competing against friends at 1000 yds or so. Not sure what to get. Is there anything that is a deal that really stands out accuracy wise?

I'm planning to use off the shelf match grade ammo, so that narrows things down. Have looked at scopes, the Millet 6-25x and a Leupold 6-18x, a Weaver Kaspa 6-18. Looking at .308, 6.5 creed, and .300WM. Don't have a budget per se, just don't care to spend more than needed. Suggestions?
Used savage 110/116/111 etc long action, $300. Custom barrel $186(Shaw) to $300ish (criterion), rifle basix trigger $85, Boyd's pro varmint $129 or at-one $189, add shipping and smithing fees where applicable based on what you're comfortable with doing yourself. In whatever chambering you desire and you can order and swap barrels to whatever you feel like shooting. I would recommend handloading, but if you can't or won't, you'll still have enough gun to get out there. You're on your own with the scope cuz my eyes aren't the ones you'll be using when you squeeze the trigger.
ETA, personally a 6 mm, 6.5, or 7 mm chamber will do what you want and with less recoil than my .300 wm.
 
I like a least a 24" barrel and prefer a 26"barrel for my long range target-hunting. I just bought a rem sps 700 SA in .260 with a 24" barrel for close to 500.00, but have not started to work with it. eastbank.

The RPR in .243 comes with a 26" tube, and my load clocks at 3150.

Just to clarify, all .243 105 bullets are NOT created the same, the target bullets with higher BCs are loooong. Berger specifies a 1:8 or 1:7 for their 105s and 1:7 for their 115s:

http://www.bergerbullets.com/products/target-bullets/

Nosler reload data for their 105 an 107 target bullets were also developed using a 1:8" twist, and even labels the page (Fast Twist)

https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/243-winchester/

and on their bullet page:

https://www.nosler.com/custom-competition-bullet/

the labels for the 105s and 107s state "Requires a minimum 1:8 twist".

Sierra??? You guessed it, they also recommend at least a 1:8" for their 107 target bullets:

https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/1570/243-dia-6mm-107-gr-HPBT

and a 1:7 for their 110 grain TGT bullet:

https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/1575/243-dia-6mm-110-gr-HPBT

Could a 1:9 standard twist work? I suppose so, but why buck the odds when most of the target bullet manufacturers specify a 1:8 or 1:7 twist???? Unless of course you don't find reading the conditions challenging enough and want to add some stability issues to your concerns.

Chuck
 
I would start off by watching this video:



Last May, I was looking to get into long range shooting. I was in a gun store just to look at rifles. I ended up buying a Savage in 6.5 Creed. I bought it not because it was exactly what I was looking for and I didn't choose it based on that caliber (I would have been happy with a .260 or a .243). I bought it because it was on sale for $499 (after mail in rebate). I knew that Savages had a reputation for very good out of the box accuracy and for that price I felt it was worth giving it a try. I don't remember what model number it is but it is a 24" threaded barrel, accustock, accutrigger. And it seems to me to be a good low cost long range gun. There are certainly better options out there starting about three times the money I spent on my gun. I can tell you that at the two ranges I go to that go out to at least 1000 yards that pretty much everybody there is amazed at how good it shoots for the money. Several guys I shoot with say, every time we go to one of those ranges, if I had known I could buy a rifle that shoots like that for $499 I would have never bought the rifles I currently own.

I can't really help you on scopes because I bought a Vortex Razor that cost approx. $2500. I am far more interested in the scope than I am the rifle.
 
I'm planning to use off the shelf match grade ammo

A friend had very good results with Hornady factory 6.5 CM.
You can buy good .308, too; another friend keeps some Black Hills in reserve. He said his reloads cost less and are a bit faster to shoot closer to the wind, but not more accurate. Other calibers, not so much.
 
I second the Remington 700 adl. The stock isnt the best but the action will work just fine.
.308 has a lot of benefits, and is not as "weak" as people like to make it out to be. I have a rifles in .308, 300wm and 6.5 creed. They all make it past 1000. Barrel longevity, and options in ammo, bullets designs and fulfilling a certain purpose is kind of some of things people start to nit pick at.
Of the carts you listed, the .300 wm would probably be the best for long range in my opinion....shooting bullets that are faster and heavier...but its not cheap, throat erosion takes place sooner, then say a .308, and frankly...people cry about the recoil. So there's always a trade off, and there's a little more to it then just simply that. I don't know how serious you are about it...
SWFA will work very well if you want to turn knobs and get use to using mildots, if you're not already....$300. Think there's something wrong with that price? Look up reviews...you wont see to many complaints. Don't like fixed 10x and want something with more mag? Athlon Argos BTR. about $400ish and they make a horus like reticle in some of them. I have a weaver tactical 5-20x50, you can sometimes find a used one cheap, however a few of them have some issues with tracking error. According to a survey i did on sniperhide sometime ago, I think the average of us was getting around 1.5% error, some being over 2%. Other than having to get a correction factor for those, they are a decent little scope. There are better budget options than the weaver kaspa and the millet anything.
You more than likely need a 20 moa scope base at a minimum. I use mostly badger and seekins precision. Just make sure its torqued down appropriately and i suggest using a little thread tite.
In close, for 1000y shooting, from a...very...well...developed .223 wydle/5.56 spr/bolt gun, all the way to past a .338 RUM will get you out there. Its all the other things not being talked about that could be an issue.
 
With off the shelf ammo 6.5 Creedmoor is the only way to go. Hornady sells 143 and 147 gr match grade ammo for under $30/box and it is readily available. You can make several other calibers come close, but not with off the shelf ammo.


Spend as much as your budget allows, but the $390 Ruger American Predator gets the job done. Plenty of video of guys making consistent hits at over a mile.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ruger+predator+6.5+creedmoor
 
My advice, buy a Ruger American in 6.5 and top it with a Vortex Crossfire. Shoot a couple of small groups and 100 yards and take pictures, tell everyone you shoot 1k. It's waaaaay cheaper and far less frustrating than actually learning true ballistics, read wind and develop good shooting technique.

All kidding aside, if you get quality equipment from the start it will make the process much easier. Look for a rifle that is relatively heavy, with a stiff and egonomic stock sporting a barrel of sufficient length and twist for driving long for caliber bullets fast.

Optics will be your biggest money sink. Optical clarity, mechanical tracking, internal adjustment and general reliability are all going to add cost. Want a scope with apochromatically corrected lenses with flawless tracking and >25mil vertical and >15mil windage? You will and prices start at roughly three grand.

Not saying you need to bust out five thousand bucks but if you can buy better gear now it will save you a lot of frustration later.
 
1 in 9.125 works just fine with a 105.

Sunray and I don't agree very often, but here's one opportunity where we do.

I've been running 105's in a 1:9.25" 14" barrel with no complaints. The blunt Speer's are easier than the A-max's, but a guy can get out there with the 105's.

For a new shooter, a guy can burn out a barrel just learning to really achieve 600yrds, so the twist on his first barrel is nearly irrelevant.
 
All kidding aside, if you get quality equipment from the start it will make the process much easier. Look for a rifle that is relatively heavy, with a stiff and egonomic stock sporting a barrel of sufficient length and twist for driving long for caliber bullets fast.

Optics will be your biggest money sink. Optical clarity, mechanical tracking, internal adjustment and general reliability are all going to add cost. Want a scope with apochromatically corrected lenses with flawless tracking and >25mil vertical and >15mil windage? You will and prices start at roughly three grand.

Not saying you need to bust out five thousand bucks but if you can buy better gear now it will save you a lot of frustration later

This is kinda worth repeating.

I generally consider if a guy wants to actually be decent at 1,000yrd shooting, he needs somewhere AT A MINIMUM around $3000-4000 in his pocket when he starts, better still to start with $5,000. I come about these numbers from this perspective:

Rifle, Optic, and mounts/rings = $2,000-2,500
Ammunition = $750-1,000
Range gear = $250-750 (bipods, bags, shooting mat, range fees/memberships, spotting scope, what have you)
Total = $3000-4,000ish

When I say it's better still to start at $5,000, that includes $500-1000 for a training course, and the ammunition cost required to get in.

Yes, cheaper rifles and optics can do the job, but there's almost always something which needs to be "fixed" on a cheaper rifle, and always an upgrade to a lower cost optic with compromises which are noticeable and significant - so a guy ends up rebuilding their "low cost rifle" into a high cost rifle over time. UNTIL you get to about $2,000-2,500 in total rig cost. Once you're in that ballpark, it's really hard, especially for a beginner, to find a tangible difference in performance at range - this lets you buy a high level factory model, or build a low level custom (flip a coin for performance between the two). Above $2,000-2,500, not much really changes except the price tag until you get to what I call the "gnat's ass" level of competitive shooting.

For ammunition, things can go well, or things can go poorly. I generally figure a guy should be planning for a ~50-60c per round practice cartridge, less is better. That gets you a 6-7mm Hornady ELD on top of H4350 with a 10-20x brass life in cartridges like 243win, 6.5 creed, 260 rem, 7-08, 25-06, etc etc... A guy will spend less per shot, but have to shoot more shots to get a 223rem out to 1,000yrds, or would spend more per shot to run greater horsepower in something like a 300wm, 7RM, 28 Nosler, etc... So figuring $750-1000 gives you enough to get a good set of dies, spare turret head if you need it, micrometer seater if you're into that, a full set of brass, and enough powder and components to get through load development and still have enough room to really get a well known and properly trued trajectory from which to draw your ballistic solutions. If a guy does a training course, you'll generally need somewhere around 350-500rnds of loaded ammo. In your first year or so, you'll not likely realize any savings in reloading unless you're already loading - you'll spend as much on your gear and brass as you would on factory ammo, especially on load development components and "learning curve" material sunk costs. So then the price per shot goes up to $1-1.50/shot. So the 50-60c/shot I mention above is a "I already own the gear to reload" number...

For range gear, a guy really has to have a proper range to shoot - even if it's private property, and has to have certain gear to facilitate the process. Not only is it often difficult to find open, flat, safe terrain to reach 1,000yrds, some ranges lend themselves to shooting better than others. If you're shooting in a cattle pasture without a berm (i.e. no bullet splashes) it's REALLY hard to call impacts, and if you don't have a spotting scope and someone to run it, it's REALLY hard to find your target out there at 1,000yrds some days - which means lots of extra ammo. Equally, the gear you use can mean the difference between meaningful practice with 20rnds fired or no-practice-benefit with 100rnds fired. Even if it's a $30 harris knock off bipod and a $15 allen rear bag, it makes a big difference on stability - which means less ammo to get on target. ETA: spotting scopes are NOT all created equal. A Simmons Blazer is cheap, but it won't be able to resolve a bullet strike on steel past about 300-400 if you have ANY mirage, whereas I can see strikes on a fresh painted target at 1,000yrds, 600 on a bad boil day with a Bushnell Elite 20-60 - except it costs something like 20x more than the Simmons. Cheap spotting scopes cause headaches and wasted ammo. /ETA

Training generally is the only real "investment" a guy can make in long range shooting. Ammo is operational cost, rifles are depreciable assets, whereas training under qualified instructors ends up as cost avoidance for excess ammo, and superfluous gear. If a guy can put $500 into a training course, even before they buy their rifle, they generally end up way ahead in total cost at the end of their first 1-3yrs. It's a fantastic plan to budget for a class every or every other year, regardless of your ability.

Cue 20 guys who have hit 48" gongs at 1,000yrds with their Ruger American and Vortex Crossfire...:fire::fire::fire:
 
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