I've been loading for 20 years. Here's the problem. I'm loading .45 ACP for my Sig P220. I use various brands of brass, 185 grain Berrys HBRN bullets, set to 1.250 depth, 7.2 grains of Hodgdon CFE Pistol powder, with Lee dies, on a single stage Lee press. I'm getting blow back powder and occasionally stove pipe ejecting. I've tried no crimp, medium, and heavier crimps. No difference. I Amy the gun to Sig, and they replaced all springs, but found nothing when tested. Can someone help with advice or suggestions?
Need help loading .45 ACP
- Thread starter Fred D.
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CQB45ACP
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Lots of question until the experts get awake
This just started out of the blue? You've loaded successfully for this pistol in the past? It shoots other cartridges okay apparently per SIG, but what other rounds have you shot in it? Factory loads for instance. Is this the only round you load/shoot in that pistol? Do you also shoot it in another pistol?
Try another bullet weight, powder, COL.
Good luck
This just started out of the blue? You've loaded successfully for this pistol in the past? It shoots other cartridges okay apparently per SIG, but what other rounds have you shot in it? Factory loads for instance. Is this the only round you load/shoot in that pistol? Do you also shoot it in another pistol?
Try another bullet weight, powder, COL.
Good luck
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I have no idea where that loads sits on the scale for 45 acp with CFE powder but powder blow back and failure to eject sounds like not enough powder in the case to me. I would guess that the chamber dimensions of your sig or the free bore in the barrel are different than the other pistols you successfully use this load in. If the load data permits it I would up the powder charge. If you are maxed out on the load data powder charge (I am guessing you are not) I would try a different (faster) powder.
I had the exact same problem with my first 50ae loads. My DE would not fully cycle and I was covered with tiny bits of powder the first time I shot my medium power H110 loads into the wind. I had to go to right at the max load data powder charge to get reliable cycling and no unburnt powder. I had the same problem with lower power H110 44 mag loads even though they fell within published load data range.
I had the exact same problem with my first 50ae loads. My DE would not fully cycle and I was covered with tiny bits of powder the first time I shot my medium power H110 loads into the wind. I had to go to right at the max load data powder charge to get reliable cycling and no unburnt powder. I had the same problem with lower power H110 44 mag loads even though they fell within published load data range.
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Jim Watson
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Hodgdon says that is a starting load for jacketed or coated bullet. More Powder, More Power.
higgite
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For a reference point, Hodgdon recommends a starting load of 7.3gr of CFE Pistol for 185gr MBC LSWC at 1.245” COL. Max Load of 8.3gr.
hodgdonreloading.com
Reloading Data Center – Hodgdon Reloading Data Center
hodgdonreloading.com
243winxb
Member
Use a Magnum Primer for Ball Powders. Even more so at starting loads. Avoid brass that uses small pistol primers.
Use a Faster powder like Alliants Bullseye Powder or MORE CFE Pistol.
Use the correct CFE?
Use a Faster powder like Alliants Bullseye Powder or MORE CFE Pistol.
Use the correct CFE?
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jmorris
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These are generally signs of a low power load or using too slow of a powder.
You did right by starting at the starting load, now just work up until your gun runs and you get what you need out of the ammunition.
higgite
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Why do you say use magnum primers for ball powder and avoid small pistol primers?Use a Magnum Primer for Ball Powders. Even more so at starting loads. Avoid brass that uses small pistol primers.
Use a Faster powder like Alliants Bullseye Powder or MORE CFE Pistol.
Use the correct CFE?
View attachment 1189797
I’m curious because I’ve been using standard LP primers with W231 for years in 45ACP and a friend has been using standard SP primers with W231 for 45ACP for a couple of years now. Neither of us have had a primer related problem.
WestKentucky
Member
2 things problematic and are telling me the same thing.
1. “Powder blowback” means shooting dirty in my mind. Dirty means incomplete burn of powder, which means too low pressure. Not sure whether to say wrong powder for your use or to increase charge slightly to fix this from this issue alone, but always consider that a dirty load is not proper burn.
2. Stovepiping means one of a few failures is happening, could be extractor claw, could be slide velocity. If there’s no damage to the claw which is easy to look at, then your left with slide velocity, which is a factor of energy pushing back which is a factor of the energy created by the cartridge.
With both pointing generally towards low pressure I’m planting my flag there and saying that you need to bump the charge. Do a workup using these same components and stop when you get clean burn. Tweak your crimp and length from there, because those fine adjustments will dial in a load that is close, and clean burn says that your close enough.
1. “Powder blowback” means shooting dirty in my mind. Dirty means incomplete burn of powder, which means too low pressure. Not sure whether to say wrong powder for your use or to increase charge slightly to fix this from this issue alone, but always consider that a dirty load is not proper burn.
2. Stovepiping means one of a few failures is happening, could be extractor claw, could be slide velocity. If there’s no damage to the claw which is easy to look at, then your left with slide velocity, which is a factor of energy pushing back which is a factor of the energy created by the cartridge.
With both pointing generally towards low pressure I’m planting my flag there and saying that you need to bump the charge. Do a workup using these same components and stop when you get clean burn. Tweak your crimp and length from there, because those fine adjustments will dial in a load that is close, and clean burn says that your close enough.
CQB45ACP
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Has there been an OP sighting?
higgite
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He's only made 1 post and no sightings since then.
Jim Watson
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Good grief, it's only been 12 hours.
eddiememphis
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I have heard of that with rifle rounds but not pistol.
Hodgdon doesn't list magnum primers with CFE Pistol in .45acp or even .44 Magnum.
243winxb
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243winxb
Member
If you look at the SDS of CFE Pistol, its in the same powder family of H110. A mag primer doesnt seem to hurt anyting, but costs more. May use less powder with a mag primer. Using a mag primer has worked for me, with H110, H380 & HS-6.
https://www.firearmsid.com/Feature Articles/McCord_gunpowder/
Makes powder harder to light- "Deterrents coat the exterior of the propellant granules to reduce the initial burning rate on the surface as well as to reduce initial flame temperature and ignitability. The coating also broadens the pressure peak and increases efficiency. Deterrents may be a penetrating type such as Herkoteâ, dibutyl phthalate, dinitrotoluene, ethyl centralite, methyl centralite, or dioctyl phthalate; or an inhibitor type such as Vinsolâ resin."
"The manufacture of smokeless ball powder requires a more specialized procedure (National Research Council 1998). Nitrocellulose, stabilizers, and solvents are blended into a dough, then extruded through a pelletizing plate and formed into spheres. The solvent is removed from the granules, and nitroglycerine is impregnated into the granules. The spheres are then coated with deterrents and flattened with rollers. Finally, an additional coating with graphite and flash suppressants is applied, and the batch is mixed to ensure homogeneity."
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1KPerDay
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HBRN bullets need more powder than you think. You can’t compare published charges using LSWC or standard 185 grain FB bullets. Put some more powder in and I’m betting your problems will go away. On the plus side you can make some very pleasant, light recoiling range loads with those Berry’s HBRNs.
Thank you very much. I'll try that, and if it works, I'll have to pull several hundred loaded bullets and up the charge. The price we pay for fun!!!
I'm thinking it's needing more powder, and maybe a magnum primer. 230s shoot okay, and I don't think the other pieces had a problem. Seems my attempt at less recoil didn't work out.Lots of question until the experts get awake
This just started out of the blue? You've loaded successfully for this pistol in the past? It shoots other cartridges okay apparently per SIG, but what other rounds have you shot in it? Factory loads for instance. Is this the only round you load/shoot in that pistol? Do you also shoot it in another pistol?
Try another bullet weight, powder, COL.
Good luck
Thanks.
1KPerDay
Member
Another piece of advice is try loading 5 or 10 and make sure they work properly before loading a couple hundred.
If you want a good light target load using these bullets try 5.0 WST under the 185 Berry's HBRN. Very soft and runs in all my .45s including my P220.
If (as you seem to be saying in your OP) you sent your P220 to SIG and they replaced all the springs, I assume you have a fresh recoil spring. They can take a while to break in, and I'd recommend shooting a few hundred full-power 230 grain loads before you try to drop the charge and get a light-recoiling load. The P220 isn't known for light recoil, either, unless you have a steel-framed variant. Try a 5" steel 1911 with the WST load above.
jmorris
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FWIW, I have loaded hundreds of thousands of 45 acp rounds and never used a magnum primer, small or large.
Another sign of low pressure rounds, is that they don't expand and seal at the mouth as well and that allows gases to deposit soot up by the case mouth, more than normal.
Another sign of low pressure rounds, is that they don't expand and seal at the mouth as well and that allows gases to deposit soot up by the case mouth, more than normal.
jmorris
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X a bajillion on that! The only thing worse than having to pull a bullet, is to have to pull a lot of them.
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Jim Watson
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I’d get a softer recoil spring to avoid having to pull hundreds of bullets.
jmorris
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I get them anyway.
