Need Top End 1911
- Thread starter Ed4032
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Quack
Member
all semi-customs are fit better than production 1911's.
choose the one that fit's your needs/wants.
we can all argue on which semi-custom builder is the best until we're blue in the face.
in my experience, the Springfield Custom Shop guns would be the top gun that i own, closely followed by Brown, then Wilson.
When i was shopping for a Commander sized 1911, it was between the Wilson Professional bobtail, Ed Brown Kobra Carry, and Les Baer Commanche. After fondling all the samples that the dealer had, i bought one of the Kobra Carry's that they had. The Brown was nicely fit, had the best trigger (of the 3 brands) and i liked the finish. I didn't see any thing that i liked about the Wilson to shell out the extra $400 for it. The Les Baer was out of the running because i wanted a bobtail and the frame is built on a gov't spec frame and not a Commander spec frame.
choose the one that fit's your needs/wants.
we can all argue on which semi-custom builder is the best until we're blue in the face.
in my experience, the Springfield Custom Shop guns would be the top gun that i own, closely followed by Brown, then Wilson.
When i was shopping for a Commander sized 1911, it was between the Wilson Professional bobtail, Ed Brown Kobra Carry, and Les Baer Commanche. After fondling all the samples that the dealer had, i bought one of the Kobra Carry's that they had. The Brown was nicely fit, had the best trigger (of the 3 brands) and i liked the finish. I didn't see any thing that i liked about the Wilson to shell out the extra $400 for it. The Les Baer was out of the running because i wanted a bobtail and the frame is built on a gov't spec frame and not a Commander spec frame.
I have owned several production Springers, a Kimber, a Dan Wesson and a Colt.
I now have a Custom Shop Springfield, just ordered another - and I have an Ed Brown. I think they are worth the money as well.
However - this topic has been done many times. Sometimes I participate, and sometimes I don't. There will always be some that will never "get it." And, I was once there myself. But I found myself always trading up - and then eventually just decided that this was the way I wanted to go...
I now have a Custom Shop Springfield, just ordered another - and I have an Ed Brown. I think they are worth the money as well.
However - this topic has been done many times. Sometimes I participate, and sometimes I don't. There will always be some that will never "get it." And, I was once there myself. But I found myself always trading up - and then eventually just decided that this was the way I wanted to go...
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I have owned 1911's made by Baer, Brown, and Wilson. Each of those manufacturers take a slightly different approach in the type of 1911 they build and offer and I think you should choose the one that builds the gun the way you prefer it.
Wilson tends to rely a little too much on "fashion" to suit me.
Baer tends to make the guns too tight to suit me. I've never seen one that could be disassembled without using a bushing wrench.
My personal preference is Ed Brown. Ed Brown builds a 1911 that is pretty much "traditional" in style, but the machine work and finish is flawless. Brown doesn't really build "fad" guns based on this or that, just a great traditional 1911. Brown also manufactues all the primary parts in his own facility, and uses no MIM parts in the construction of their guns. My current carry gun is an Ed Brown Special Forces. As of Saturday I've got 7,550 rds through it without a malfunction. That's shooting a combination of hardball, SD hollow-points, and handloaded cast bullets.
I consider it definitely worth the money compared to Dan Wesson, Springfield, Kimber etc and every bit as good as Baer or Wilson.
Wilson tends to rely a little too much on "fashion" to suit me.
Baer tends to make the guns too tight to suit me. I've never seen one that could be disassembled without using a bushing wrench.
My personal preference is Ed Brown. Ed Brown builds a 1911 that is pretty much "traditional" in style, but the machine work and finish is flawless. Brown doesn't really build "fad" guns based on this or that, just a great traditional 1911. Brown also manufactues all the primary parts in his own facility, and uses no MIM parts in the construction of their guns. My current carry gun is an Ed Brown Special Forces. As of Saturday I've got 7,550 rds through it without a malfunction. That's shooting a combination of hardball, SD hollow-points, and handloaded cast bullets.
I consider it definitely worth the money compared to Dan Wesson, Springfield, Kimber etc and every bit as good as Baer or Wilson.
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Jed Carter
Member
My pick is the Nighthawk Custom, if price is not an issue. Getting the Heinie PDP 9mm next. http://nighthawkcustom.com
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phanderson
Member
I went through this a couple of years ago and I looked at Wilson, Brown, and Les Baer.
it took me about 6 months to make up my mind and finally had to decide between Brown and Baer. The number of different models and options offered by Les Baer appealed to me more in the end. I now own 3 Les Baer pistols. They are great accurate and reliable shooters.
But, it's your money. Buy what you want.
Plastic just doesn't have the feel and soul of an all steel 1911.
tommyintx
Member
save a little longer and get one of each, then find the one you like the most and sell the rest. they hold value fairly well. i prefer colts only, and do my own work..
jahwarrior
Member
Les Baer.
smoothdraw
Member
And modern 1911's doesn't have the soul of the good ol' blued Colt 1911.
Sapper771
Member
I have owned a Wilson, Les Baer, and a Fusion. Out of those three, I would choose Wilson Combat. They know how to make a good 1911.
Out of all the 1911s I have now, my main one is an Armorykote Springfield TRP. Great all around pistol with an excellent company backing it it.
Out of all the 1911s I have now, my main one is an Armorykote Springfield TRP. Great all around pistol with an excellent company backing it it.
I don't think it's worth the money; If it were my money I'd get a Dan Wesson and then if I wanted a more custom look or something take it to a smith. If you have extra money I'd reccomend getting a holster, magazines, ammo, training, or a glock/cz-75 or another gun in that general price range.
My 1911 is a Springfield Stainless Loaded. I love this production gun. Tight fit, nice finish, accurate, reliable, and easy on the eyes.
I've never fired a Wilson, Baer, or Brown. What makes them better? I am NOT disputing that they are better. Just wondering what the appeal is given the substantial extra cost.
I've never fired a Wilson, Baer, or Brown. What makes them better? I am NOT disputing that they are better. Just wondering what the appeal is given the substantial extra cost.
model of 1905
member
Whichever 1911 you decide on, do yourself a favor and run Tripp's Research mags in it. I don't work for or represent them in any way but I've tried them all and they work the best.
txgolfer45
Member
I went through a similar decision process and almost bought an Ed Brown this week. But, instead, I decided on a Springfield TRP and reloading equipment. If I want, I can send the TRP to the Springfield Custom Shop for any desired upgrades.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Ed4032 said:
They're worth it to those who can appreciate them.
Just like heated leather seats are worth it for those who appreciate them. I don't have heated leather in our vehicles. I own 2 complete custom house 1911's.
A Hi Point can reliably put lead downrange. Say what you might about them, but they do work. They just aren't the most aethestic or ergonomic. So will a beat-up police trade S&W Model 10. As will a Glock.
So what we're talking about is a matter of taste.
Production 1911's often cut corners with MIM parts and loose fit. That includes Kimbers these days, sadly.
Semi-custom shops like Wilson and Ed Brown use better quality parts, like tool steel, and display better fitting.
Full custom 'smiths (and some of the semi-custom shops) will make what you exactly want, within reason and within what the man who is building it for you will allow his name to be associated with.
I have two. I can appreciate them. But it took spending years with Jim Garthwaite before I was brought about to be able to appreciate the difference between a $1,200 Kimber; an $1,800 semi-custom, and a >$2,500 full-blown, ground up, custom build.
The difference between a Kimber, and a semi-custom package from a shop catalog, and a ground-up build are little details like this - a 10k gold bead front sight.
That's what I want. There are only a handful of people in the country still installing them. Those little touches are the sorts of things a top end custom brings you.
Is it worth it? That's like asking someone if his child is beautiful. Yes, it's worth it to me. I can appreciate it. I like how one was made to fit my hand by Jim. And I blended the other myself over the course of a week with files, stones and paper, with my hands, to fit my hands. That week was priceless.
Rather than retype the story, you can read the entire thread here.
1911 LW Commander gallery
Is it worth it for you? I don't know. Do you think you'll be able to appreciate the differences?
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
kama, I shoot the 9mm Commander much more than the .45. It's much less expensive, and much more pleasant.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
BullfrogKen said:
Sam1911 has seen these before, but last night was the first night he got to shoot one.
Sam, what did you think? Do you think you can appreciate the difference yet?
And "No" is a perfectly acceptable answer.
robctwo
Member
I have an Ed Brown Exec. Target, a Les Baer PII 1.5" guarantee and a Baer PII 9mm. Seems like a lot of people say they aren't worth the $. I've spent way more on ammo than on the guns. They are great guns. Are they "that much better" than a Dan Wesson?Don't know. Bought a SA Black Stainless loaded. Reworked the ignition with Ed Brown parts to get an acceptable trigger. Bought a S&W PD Commander with scandium frame. Nice gun. Bought the Brown, no comparison, not even close.
If I didn't have enough money to buy a Brown, I'd get a Rock Island and two boxes of bullets. One to check the gun and one to keep it loaded. Wouldn't have enough to shoot much. If you are going to put 10-30,000 rounds through your gun, get a good one.
If I didn't have enough money to buy a Brown, I'd get a Rock Island and two boxes of bullets. One to check the gun and one to keep it loaded. Wouldn't have enough to shoot much. If you are going to put 10-30,000 rounds through your gun, get a good one.
HisSoldier
Member
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- Sep 26, 2007
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- 1,330
When my FFL, who is also my gunsmith, saw my new Dan Wesson Marksman his comment was "You know, they make 1911's better now than ever before".
But even an RIA has infinitely more soul than a glock or any plastic gun. I like my RIA, it's extremely reliable and though it has many MIM parts it will do it's job when asked, and without a gram of plastic!
KingMedicine
Member
Ive been quite happy with my Fusion 1911. Its made by the old prez of Dan Wesson... Bob Surva
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=492865
Check it out if you wish.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=492865
Check it out if you wish.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Well, I did get to shoot one of Ken's, constructed under Jim's artisan's eyes.
I've seen a lot of 1911s, and tinkered with my own for years. There are a thousand little details that make up the whole package. The precise fit of this part to that part, the consistency of the finish from one part to the next, the perfect trigger (perfect for YOU, not someone else), the exact shape of the control levers (again, exact for YOU, not someone else), and the time taken to mate wearing surfaces exactly to one another, (among rather a lot else), make up the whole.
I can get a couple of those things right enough with my own skills to make my own gun do what I want. Might not look stellar, but functional. I could spend something in the mid-range of price to get a number of things that I like, and a lot that I don't care for. I've seen and shot semi-custom Browns and Wilson's that were very, very good, and the list of what I might like better wouldn't be long. (Still waiting to shoot a Springfield Pro...but that might as well be a full custom gun, from what I've heard.)
But the master gunsmith's touch in making a complete package that is RIGHT, in every detail, is spectacular. The ability to take the gun down to it's very basic parts and inspect every one -- and pronounce them "perfect" in fit, finish, applicability to your purposes/tastes -- is really wonderful.
As has been said many times before, in many different fields, the cost to reach perfection follows a steep curve. You can improve on the basics a little bit for not much money. Moving up the scale starts to get more and more expensive, for smaller and smaller improvements. By the time you're reaching that pinnacle of "exactly right" (for you, personally), the costs are starting to climb well beyond what most would want to pay for a utilitarian tool. But for a personalized work of art? Worth it.
-Sam
I've seen a lot of 1911s, and tinkered with my own for years. There are a thousand little details that make up the whole package. The precise fit of this part to that part, the consistency of the finish from one part to the next, the perfect trigger (perfect for YOU, not someone else), the exact shape of the control levers (again, exact for YOU, not someone else), and the time taken to mate wearing surfaces exactly to one another, (among rather a lot else), make up the whole.
I can get a couple of those things right enough with my own skills to make my own gun do what I want. Might not look stellar, but functional. I could spend something in the mid-range of price to get a number of things that I like, and a lot that I don't care for. I've seen and shot semi-custom Browns and Wilson's that were very, very good, and the list of what I might like better wouldn't be long. (Still waiting to shoot a Springfield Pro...but that might as well be a full custom gun, from what I've heard.)
But the master gunsmith's touch in making a complete package that is RIGHT, in every detail, is spectacular. The ability to take the gun down to it's very basic parts and inspect every one -- and pronounce them "perfect" in fit, finish, applicability to your purposes/tastes -- is really wonderful.
As has been said many times before, in many different fields, the cost to reach perfection follows a steep curve. You can improve on the basics a little bit for not much money. Moving up the scale starts to get more and more expensive, for smaller and smaller improvements. By the time you're reaching that pinnacle of "exactly right" (for you, personally), the costs are starting to climb well beyond what most would want to pay for a utilitarian tool. But for a personalized work of art? Worth it.
-Sam
A lot has been said in the posts above so back to the original question :If you appreciate fit and finish and craftsmanship I say they are worth the $$$$ IMO. If your current 1911's are stock guns, you will notice a difference from kimber/RIA/Colt to Wilson or Baer as they are in a different league.
I have experience with Les Baer (PII/TRS), Wilson Combat (CQB LE/CQB), and Nighthawk (GRP).
I would recommend any of the 3 manufacturers in any of their configurations. Of the 3, however I would recommend Wilson as my favorite and looking as my next purchase.
Baer - I would say the Premier II we have really needed a "break in period". Had many failures to go into battery out of the box, well lubed. After 500 rounds the gun was still very tight but was getting more reliable. We had the weapon configured with the 1.5" guarantee which called for a very tight fit and I'm sure contributed to the break in. After about 1000 rds I would trust the weapon as I would any other 1911 I own and has been pretty much problem free but still very tight! The fit and finish is pretty awesome on Baer's.
Nighthawk - have had great experience with GRP. Generally has been a great Weapon and a pleasure to shoot. Only reason I rate Wilson above the GRP is I have shot Wilson Models much more.
Wilson - Have over 1700 rounds through a CQB LE w/ bull barrel and never one malfunction. From out of the box until now has been 100%. My father trains with a CQB w/ rail and is in love with his as well. I think the feel (which is completely subjective) is the best for me and I have trust in Wilson Pistols.
Would also recommend a Springfield Professional. Only thing I don't like is after a day of shooting, the front strap is almost too aggressive for a tight grip/bare hands.
No experience with Brown's but have heard great things too!!
My .02
I have experience with Les Baer (PII/TRS), Wilson Combat (CQB LE/CQB), and Nighthawk (GRP).
I would recommend any of the 3 manufacturers in any of their configurations. Of the 3, however I would recommend Wilson as my favorite and looking as my next purchase.
Baer - I would say the Premier II we have really needed a "break in period". Had many failures to go into battery out of the box, well lubed. After 500 rounds the gun was still very tight but was getting more reliable. We had the weapon configured with the 1.5" guarantee which called for a very tight fit and I'm sure contributed to the break in. After about 1000 rds I would trust the weapon as I would any other 1911 I own and has been pretty much problem free but still very tight! The fit and finish is pretty awesome on Baer's.
Nighthawk - have had great experience with GRP. Generally has been a great Weapon and a pleasure to shoot. Only reason I rate Wilson above the GRP is I have shot Wilson Models much more.
Wilson - Have over 1700 rounds through a CQB LE w/ bull barrel and never one malfunction. From out of the box until now has been 100%. My father trains with a CQB w/ rail and is in love with his as well. I think the feel (which is completely subjective) is the best for me and I have trust in Wilson Pistols.
Would also recommend a Springfield Professional. Only thing I don't like is after a day of shooting, the front strap is almost too aggressive for a tight grip/bare hands.
No experience with Brown's but have heard great things too!!
My .02
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