Negligence at the range

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TheDisturbed1

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okay, so me my mother and my grandfather are at the S.Cushman range on sunday and it is an outdoor, unsupervised range and we were out there at about 10 pm, the sun was still up and a storm was coming so we thought it was a good time to put holes in paper/bottles.

So anyway, we basically had the entire rifle portion of the range to ourselves... we had 3 guns there, my WASR-3, Ruger MKII .22, and my Nylon 66... I was on the AK, my mother on the Nylon 66, and grandad on the Ruger... they were shooting 25 yard targets and i was shooting at 50 and 100 yard targets. so later on, 2 guys in an old jeep wagoneer pull up with with a scoped hunting rifle on a synthetic stock and they were simply shooting at the leftover targets from other shooters. after a while we all stoped and called the range cold so we can check our groups on what we trying to shoot at, and as i'm walking back from the 100 yrd line along the side of the range and my mom and grandad were at 25 yrd line looking at the cheapo targets i made and then BOOM! those other guys popped a shot while we were still downrange! it scared the hell out of my mother and startled me and my grandfather so we kinda hustled back to the line and packed up while those brainiacs kept plinking... but anyway we were lucky, no holes and hospital visit needed...

but i am wondering... if there is a better approach to handling this situation, how should it have been handled? they didnt interact with us and we didnt interact with them and that might have been a good thing due to a little tension from their neglagence.

any thoughts?
 
"...how should it have been handled?..." You should have talked to the range owners or manager on the way out. Those other guys are going to kill somebody and the range will be closed and the owners sued.
 
I would give those guys a piece of my mind, and let them know what they did was totally against range safety rules. You have every right to be there as much as they do, and even though there is no range officers or a manager there, they should still follow common sense firearm safety rules.
 
Pick up the phone and ask 'em about it. Mind you, if I had been there, my old Canadian Forces RSO 'manners' might have kicked in. Even though confronting them wouldn't have been a good idea.
 
I'd have been knee deep in thier asses.
Last year I was at the range with some friends. Simliar situation, someone shows up while we were downrange setting targets. They start snapping in while we're downrange. I advise this guy to not handle his firearm while we're downrange and that the range is cold. He gives me lip, I walked over to his spot and dug in. Turns out he was a Deputy Sheriff, too. He got the point when in no uncertain terms I explained to him that it was unacceptable to handle a firearm pointed downrange when targets were being set. "It's unloaded". I recited the four rules. Then asked him if he wanted me to point my unloaded SKS at him. "Good point".
 
About 20 years ago I was out at a range shooting a Mini 14. I didn't hear anyone call cease fire, but the dude a couple spots over starts walking downrange. I popped off a couple shots before I noticed him and he turned and gave me a very angry look. I Stopped and waved sheepishly, feeling pretty bad. 20 min later range is cold again and I'm walking downrange; dude pops a couple kind of in my direction, I turn around and look a him, but I didn't do anything b/c hes still holding the gun and I still felt stupid from before - still 2 wrongs don't make a right, I was pretty ticked off.
 
A friend and I once had a similar experience on the Fort Knox public range.

They used to let civilians use the range. While we were shooting, some local civilians showed up. At some point, they set up some targets and started shooting.

After a while, we called a ceasefire to go downrange and change targets. While we were changing targets, there was a "snap!" and a "boom!". We were startled to see the "Dukes of Hazzard" firing while we were downrange. We AGAIN called a ceasefire, ran back to the firing line and asked them what they thought they were doing. I believe this is an exact quote, "We wasn't shooting AT you; we was shooting PAST you!" We replied that if they did it again, we'd shoot THROUGH them. We then reported them to range control. I think they packed up and left before they could be run off.
 
I've never done any of my shoting at ranges, but you just have to look to see if there's nobody downrange? Or do ranges have like some kid of visual cue like a red and green light or something else where a range doesn't have electricity? It seems like a good idea because I hear stories of people showing up to unsupervised ranges, and start shooting not realizing there are people downrange.
 
I was on public lands where a lot of people go hunting and plinking. We heard some people shooting about half a quarter mile away. Not a big deal I thought... they must be shooting into a nice safe backdrop just like we would. We shot off a few rounds into the dirt to help make our presence known. Then after a little while I noticed that I could hear a little "zing" after every one of their shots... the shots were, in fact, passing in the trees directly above my head.... in the same direction as the main road. We were cooking bacon and eggs. Fired off a few mosin rounds into the ground, and my friends were shouting for them to stop. Their fire was still unnervingly close above our heads. I was hiding behind a tree and my car engine block. Finally their shooting stopped, and the guys drove right up the dirt road we were parked at. We just gave them cold stares as they slowly drove past in their jeep... eating our bacon and eggs. We weren't sure if they were reckless or dangerous, and we'd had a long night.... so we just let them go.

Hopefully they'll go out and win themselves darwin awards.
 
Simple methods I've seen.

Orange traffic cones (even the small ones for street hocky). If the cones are out in the shooting area the range is cold. You bring the cones back in as you return from setting your targets.

BRING WHISTLES! The "Fox 40" whistles like you get at REI are great for signaling.

EDIT: The one thing I'm wondering though is why it always has to be an all-or-nothing confrontation. What happened to going over and saying "Woah man that was scary, can we agree on some guidelines so that doesn't happen again?" Now if they aren't open to that, then it's time to leave anyway (unless you -want- to have a firearms related incident).
 
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I recently read somewhere some rules by a lawyer on CCW. It was pretty common sense to me about backing away, being invisible, and avoiding the confrontation.
Seems to me you did the right thing. If you think about it everyone was armed, it was unattended range, and the two guys were pretty much brain dead by firing down range. It's hard to tell what could of happened but it didn't, and you very likely saved yourself a lot of money defending yourself in a court.
 
Some people need to be trained!

glad yall are alright. IMHO the best way to handle this type of problem is to confront them, stay calm take a minute to collect your facilties and go have a little talk. Confront them as polite as possible, inform them of the rules, and TRAIN them on proper range eticut. It may be they are brain dead, it may be that they did not know anyone was down range at the time, it may be they did know you were there but are not smart enough to know better.
However if you realize that they did it on purpose, knew you were down range and shot anyway :fire:...........Be nice, until it is time, to not be nice
 
The one thing I'm wondering though is why it always has to be an all-or-nothing confrontation.
Click to expand...
If somebody starts shooting when they SEE people downrange, they're either drunk, an ignoramus or a villain. I don't want any of those on any range where I'm trying to shoot.
 
This works both ways. Once last year, I was the dumbass myself. I was out at the local public outdoor range, a very informal place. There are two berms... one at 150 yards, one at 300. We'd all gone down range to change our targets, and then I stepped up to take a shot at my pistol target at 25 yards. A local fellow made a noise, and alerted me to a fellow coming back from the 300 yard berm just coming into view around the 150 yard berm. I felt like a total ass, and I still do, although nothing more was said and everyone was smiling and friendly.
In a similar situation, I'd approach the guys with a smile and advise them we'd better watch out for each other. If they don't seem to comprehend or if they get huffy, I'd probably clear out and come back another time. In some instances, it may pay to jump on them, but I raised my kids the best I could, and I get tired of trying to raise other people's children.
Marty
 
Ya did right!!! I would haved aded taking down the license
plate and make a report to the authorities. Never confront
dumb it it can be avoid it. Dead right is never the final word.
 
I would haved aded taking down the license
plate and make a report to the authorities.
Click to expand...
that crossed my mind later on... but i dont know if the state will do any more than wave their finger and say "bad kitty" or whatever...

my grandfather is who called the range cold, he has alot of experience in the army with idiots, he says he has a constant ringing in his ears from "a cold range" as he was behind a bazooka when it was fired... we had the guys' attention and they SAW us walking downrange... they might have got impatient and thought that since they were about 10 lanes over it was all alright.

if this happens again, i'm likely going to take a plate #. until then, i'm going to check to see if there is any policy at all down there
 
Arctic Assault said:
so later on, 2 guys in an old jeep wagoneer pull up with with a scoped hunting rifle on a synthetic stock and they were simply shooting at the leftover targets from other shooters. after a while we all stoped and called the range cold so we can check our groups on what we trying to shoot at, and as i'm walking back from the 100 yrd line along the side of the range and my mom and grandad were at 25 yrd line looking at the cheapo targets i made and then BOOM! those other guys popped a shot while we were still downrange! it scared the hell out of my mother and startled me and my grandfather so we kinda hustled back to the line and packed up while those brainiacs kept plinking... but anyway we were lucky, no holes and hospital visit needed...
Click to expand...
I am not confrontational. I avoid conflict; back down if necessary; and do not worry much about appearances. That being said, the negligence you described is beyond unacceptable. I would have acted out of character, and not been wrong for doing so. At the very least they would have gotten a stern lecture on range safety.

Another reason I rarely go to public ranges. Scary. :eek:
 
Our range has a saying that everyone is a safety officer. If you see something done wrong you must say something. Someone's life may depend on it.

They would have heard it from me.
 
Farmers!

Sometimes people who ought to know better simply screw up. At a private range where I used to shoot we used flags for the range status. The land was also used by a nearby farmer: when he needed to use the land (to get to equipment stored behind the berms), he would raise a yellow flag to indicate he was downrange. Locked gate, so only members would be on the land. No foolishness about “whadda tha yeller flag fur?” – we all knew what it meant.

I showed up one morning, and was the only one there. No flags up. I put up a red flag to indicate that shooters were using the range, trekked down to set up some targets at the 100m line, and spent a good ten minutes setting up my shooting position to my satisfaction. When I have a nice sight-picture and I’m getting that sweet “this first round is going to be dead on” feeling, I touch the trigger and gently start pressing. My sight-picture goes black. Totally disconcerting, as I haven’t moved my head a millimeter, and haven’t so much as blinked. I raise my head in confusion to look downrange, and see that a freaking tractor is tooling across my line of sight. At 30, my health was fine, otherwise I just might have had a heart attack. My ear plugs were pretty good, or it was an awfully quiet tractor, because it was like watching a silent movie. After he parked behind the line I asked him, what the hell? Just a fundamental screw-up. At least I didn’t put a .303 round through his engine block, much less the cab. I didn’t bother yelling, or saying anything to “correct” the matter – just made sure he knew how close I was to firing when I spotted him. Figured if that didn’t put the matter right, nothing would.
 
Pershing I think I know the range you a referring to. I can't believe they would drive right across the firing line when the range is hot. The yellow flag is there for a reason.
 
Our range is indoors and tiny (4 lanes @ 25 yards!). We always have someone assigned as RO for every single detail and their word is law. Anyone violating any of the safety rules is given a thorough chewing-out then and there. We are very strict, but then we have to be; we get many inexperienced and totally new shooters and being in the UK (and a University club) we have to be.
 
It really helps to have an RO at the range. Even though it's a government/Park owned I'd petition to have a live person there at least 3-4 times a week, especially on days when there's shooters out there (probably closer to the weekend).

I'm glad there's an RO at my indoor range. One time after my shooting session, I looked down and saw a trail of blood drips starting at one stall and ending up out the door. I checked my self to see if I had any holes, thankfully I didn't. I then informed the RO. She came in yelling out, "Who's bleeding?!!"

Some guy got his finger stuck on the slide opening of a 1911 as it locked forward, he pulled his finger out causing a nice slit.
 
Once upon a time

me and mrs. cartman were shooting at Markham Park, in south FL, and during "cold range" period, noone can touch a firearm. then, some a-hole starts scoping his rifle, while a TON of people are down range fixing targets. man, you guys should have seen the fury of ROs. and i don't blame them. .308 aimed at my chest would give me a warm and fuzzy feeling too :uhoh: it took several laud screams to get this guy to put his rifle back. i think they kicked him out too, although i haven't seen that part personally.

in any case, i think i would tell those people to PLEASE stop shooting in our direction. if they didn't comply, i would pack up and leave. no pill for stupid.
 
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