"Never tell a soul about your CCW"

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ShooterMcGavin

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First, I am still somewhat new to carrying concealed, so I am trying to learn from some of the advice I can get here. I don't know how well that is working...

I am frustrated with the advice I have read from some of the members here. I have posted topics on how to broach the subject of carrying a gun to your fiance, for example. Many of you have responded that "nobody should ever know that you carry". Those types of people must be insane, or they are marrying someone that they do not spend much time with. OR, they only carry a P3AT!!! Well, I carry a fullsize M&P, and it does not conceal very well in a front pocket of my pants!

Screw the advice that I should never let my most intimate partner know that I carry a gun, or even good friends!! The people who give out that advice are messed up. I am not a mall-ninja.

I have done my best to prevent letting friends know that I carry. Now, many of my friends think I am being deceptive and hiding something. There have been times that I have had to leave my group of friends without any warning, because I could not enter a bar with my CCW or go into another state (Oregon doesn't recognize my WA CPL, the bastards).

WHY?!?! Why should I never let another human being discover that I carry concealed?? What is the big F-ing deal?? Instead of scaring friends because I carry a gun (<-I can deal with that), I am scaring friends because they think I am some type of psycho who always has to leave the group suddenly for some reason (when they go into a bar).

No, I can't always lock the gun in my car. Many times I have ridden my motorcycle, or consider when a friend has driven to the destination.
 
I think the issue is one of "Concealed means concealed", as in - the more people you let in on your hidden gun, the more people could concieveably ambush you. It's one of the argments between open vs. concealed carry, figuring that if a badguy scopes your gun, he can work it out so that he attacks you from an angle or from behind so you're done for before you even knew he was there.

I can see the wisdom in keeping a concealed weapon concealed, but I also agree with you. If you can't trust your fiancee, then chances are you've got more to worry about than just getting ambushed. And if your frends know, so what? Same deal with your fiancee. If you can't trust them, or they can't deal with you having a gun, you need new friends.

I think those who give advice like you've been getting mean well, and have a reasonable point, but are taking it a bit too far. There's only so much you can prepare for, and if you need that much security that even those closest to you are suspect, you may be better served staying in the house from now on, heh.
 
Screw the advice that I should never let my most intimate partner know that I carry a gun, or even good friends!! The people who give out that advice are messed up. I am not a mall-ninja.
Click to expand...

I concur with you on this, to a point.

Personally, I was somewhat burned by the fact that my neighbors knew I carried. I don't recall all of the specifics, but here is what I do recall: we moved in next to a couple about our age, and they were ardent firearm owners - full auto kit were in the family, and shooting, hunting, fishing, and the like were the primary pasttimes. My wife, I, and our neighbors would spend most (good weather) Friday evenings outside in our shared back yard with a fire in the fire pit and beer in our hands, and we'd occasionally go out shooting together.

Well, things were good for quite a while, as near as I could tell. We and our neighbors both lived in a pair of duplexes, both of us on the bottom floors, with the same landlord. About a year and a half after we moved in, the landlord rented out the upstairs place to a real low-life; while we were in the process of moving out due to this lowlife (landlord was a real pr*ck too, but that's another story), there was a social infraction in which I had to call the cops on the guy upstairs (beating his pregnant gf - we could hear everything they did up there). The cops did not take him away, because he was done doing what he'd been doing and she was "in the shower". He came down and, despite me having kept my firearm ownership mum to him, knew that I carried and had guns. He was drunk and beligerent and was yelling through the door, and basically saying that I was a coward for having guns, etc. and that I was lucky he didn't come in and teach me a lesson (or some such tripe).

How did he know I had guns? Well, he was a big, aggressive guy, and the friendly neighbors were smaller people. Apparently he was complaining about me to the neighbors (I'd called the cops on him earlier in the week for a similar problem) and the neighbor said something about it being a bad idea to mess with me because I had guns. That whole scenario kind of ruined the relationship, combined with general stress due to this guy.

And, another story, but shorter: when I first got into CCW, I would open carry sometimes (because it's legal here). At the time, I still had a lot of my "kid" friends - people from high school and the first couple years of college. They weren't mature, and most of them were leftists - follow-the-herd moveon.org types. Meanwhile, I was well on the way to having my 1st child born and becoming self-actualized. We had good times drinking, playing cards, playing paintball, hanging out - whatever - but there was a huge doctrinal divide. When I started carrying around them, I wasn't the least bit discreet about it. I wasn't flamboyant about it, either. It didn't bother all of them, but the ones it did (all the females and about 1/3rd of the guys) gave me perpetual strife about it - seemingly good-natured but always with a bit of malice.

What I've come to realize is that these people weren't "friends" (in the case of both stories, but mainly the 2nd story). They were fair-weather friends and, aside from enjoying each others' company during fairly simplistic entertainment activities, we had nothing in common. None of them had the ability to hold an indepth discussion about anything. They weren't interested in exploring the whys and whens of life's nuanced philosophies. They were, first and foremost, emotionally driven creatures and hadn't a single strain of reason.

Now, the only people who I talk about carrying with are family and close friends. I've only got three such close friends, two of whom carry themselves. These are people I can trust fairly explicitly; they know my childrens' names and they'd treat them as their own if they had to.

In short, I grew up and started developing real friendships with more mature people. If you can't trust your spouse, friends, or family with the smallest piece of intimate knowledge, then can you really trust them with things that really matter? Can you trust your spouse (fiancee) to be faithful? Can you trust them to act in your best interest when you need them to and not do the selfish thing?

The point of the advice you're getting in quantity is, I think, misguided. The point shouldn't be to not let those around you (ie a part of your life) know you carry. The point should be to surround yourself with trustworthy, honest, and honorable people who aren't going to care, allowing you to be open with them.

I'm going to guess you're in the 21-25 age group, judging by your suggested social scenarios. Sounds a bit like what things were like for me when I started carrying several years ago.
 
You are going to have to make some tough decisions now and it will likely create a divide between you and your friends. You will find out who your true friends are and aren't. It's not fun, but you'll get past it.

Fair weather friends will fade. However, I would still refrain as much as possible. Your fiance can know, no issue there with me. But unless you grew up with some of these guys, this is one of those issues that's like religion and politics, just best not to talk about it unless you simply like arguing....A LOT!!!

Some people cannot be persuaded otherwise simply because of the way they were raised. Should you be out and about and you personally stop a mugging, I think they'll come around. Beyond that, don't hold your breath.

jeepmor
 
I know this could get me flamed, but I would suggest just being open about it. Honestly how many times if one of your friends wanted to could they have, if they had a gun, shot you in the back? Them knowing isn't going to magically make them want to kill you or something anymore than you having a gun makes you some murderous villain. If you can't trust them to know you have something, should you really be around them at all?

#1 Don't make it seem like a big deal, because it really isn't. You carry a gun legally, big friggin' deal. If you feel they may flip out, take them shooting first and show them having a gun doesn't automatically turn you into someone evil.

#2 I think the point of the "concealed means concealed" advice was to stress that you need to keep it concealed in public because in cities it is generally illegal or at the very least will get you hassled by the local cops to open carry or have a gun that is not very concealed.
 
This forum, like all others, has a vast number of people who have different opinions on just about everything.

I think what you need to do is to take what you need, and can use, and leave the rest.

That is to say, you are responsible for your actions , and therefore are also responsible to form your own opinions on subjects presented for discussion. What works for one or even many, may not work for you.
 
There is a big difference between not telling "anyone" and telling every friend, aquaintance, and co-worker that you're carrying. And if you can't tell someone you're dating (or engaged, or married to) that you're carrying, then maybe you shouldn't be dating them.

Those that you do tell should be advised that it isn't something to talk about in a store or a crowd in public, and they should never take it upon themselves to tell someone else that you carry.

But it certainly is something you can (and should) talk about amongst yourselves. It isn't something that you need to keep secret, or be ashamed of. Maybe a good first step is to select one or two close friends and invite them to the range to shoot with you. That's where you can "casually" tell them that you carry, and have been carrying for awhile. That might bring up the issue of how "strangely" you've been acting lately, and clear up the whole thing.

Who knows? You might even convince them to shoot regularly or even CCW.
 
I am frustrated with the advice I have read from some of the members here. I have posted topics on how to broach the subject of carrying a gun to your fiance, for example. Many of you have responded that "nobody should ever know that you carry". Those types of people must be insane, or they are marrying someone that they do not spend much time with. OR, they only carry a P3AT!!! Well, I carry a fullsize M&P, and it does not conceal very well in a front pocket of my pants!
Click to expand...

Stop believing everything you read on a gun board and start make your own informed decisions based on common sense. You obviously trust your fiance, so tell her. There is no harm in that. If she is loose-lipped, ask her to keep that knowledge to herself.

I don't broadcast that I carry. The only person that knows is my wife, and I like to keep it that way simply because I don't want others to put me in a situation that I would not have been in otherwise just because someone thinks I "have their back." I don't hang around people that would put me in situations like that, but you never know about people. I also have a brother who is an LEO that thinks any citizen carrying a weapon is a menace (don't bother with lectures - you'd be preaching to the choir.) So I don't tell anyone. That way there's no judging...no false sense of security, etc.

But you do what you feel is right.
 
Be very selective

Good post Caimlas, in that it points out the problem of "It's not who you tell, its who they tell." After I got my CWP a couple of years ago, my wife felt the need to tell a few friends and close family members. They of course told some of their close friends and family, and so it goes.

I had asked my wife to keep it quiet, but she insisted she had only told a few people. When I asked her why, she didn't know, it was just something to talk about. I think she finally figured out why I was concerned after we had one of her best friends family over for a Sunday afternoon BBQ. One of the friends teenaged daughters wanted to bring her boyfriend, which was fine. The boyfriend arrives and proceeds to ask if he can see my gun, if I have it on me, etc.

I later explained to my wife that now this 17 year old boyfriend, who we really didn't know from Adam, knew that we had at least one gun in the house (we have several more) and knew where we lived. Most likely he would tell a few of his friends, who would tell a few more friends. It could be as innocent as just happening to drive by and casually mentioning, "hey, thats where that guy with the gun lives." BTW, we live just off the main drag and about half a mile from a pretty large high school.

Now the wife understands that this is our business only, but the horse is out of the barn.

You can certainly tell your fiancee, but you have to make it clear that its your personal business, no one elses. And you are the one that will decide who else knows. If you decided to CCW to protect you and yours, the greater the number of people that know, diminishes the amount of protection and safety is provided. It may even increase your risk. Think about it.
 
I have a lot to say on this subject, and some of it I wrote in your thread on the motorcycles and the bar.

On the one hand we keep seeing people here on THR mention that we need to normalize our possession of guns, to show the public in general that we are not crazed sociopaths, bent on shooting the place up wherever we might be.

Then there is the "concealed means concealed faction". A lot of times this is good advice. If I have to run into a store someplace and all of a sudden discover that I am not supposed to have my gun on me, I do not panic, go through all sorts of contortions, etc, to avoid taking my gun with me. I take it in with my mouth shut and my shirt pulled down, and leave with no one being the wiser.

Some folks think that it is a bad idea to let others know we are carrying, because it makes us the first target. If we are practicing situational awareness, this is not an issue. Sometimes I think it is a good idea to let people who we do not know, know we are armed and ready to deal with them. Most bad guys are going to look for a weak target, not one which is going to fight back and maybe win.

But in the overall course of things, I do not mind letting people know that I carry a gun. I am very matter of fact about it, and treat it with the same attitude of carrying my wallet, my pocketknife, and my chapstick - in case I need it. Often the question comes up, "why do you carry a gun?" I like to joke around, and I always answer in the same way, half joking and half serious - "In case I need to shoot someone." Why else would I be carrying it? In case I am attacked by a ream of paper targets? In the event of the overwhelming urge to demonstrate my marksmanship? No, I carry it in case I need to shoot someone, and that is what I told the sherriff's dept when I told them I wanted the permit. It says it right there on the permit itself - protection.

When I answer like that, people are forced to think of situations where the need to shoot someone might arise, and they are forced to acknowledge that it could happen. It is the same reason why we keep fire extinguishers in our vehicles or homes. It is the same reason why we buy smoke alarms, or have burglar alarms installed in our homes, but it carries the preparedness theme one step further.

Most people are okay with this, although there are some who are not. That is tough for them. I am carrying legally, and there is nothing they can do about that. If they want to put their head in the sand, that is their business. They cannot force me to do the same. On a few occasions I have been challenged along the lines of losing my temper and shooting someone over something trivial. I am a big guy - real big, like football linebacker big. Many people over the years have told me I am intimidating just standing there minding my own business. I have politely pointed out to those types that if I were that kind of person, I could easily beat the stuffing out of them and there is not a thing they could do about it. Since that has never happened - well, since childhood anyway :evil: - it is not an issue.

But this goes along way towards normalizing the possession and use of firearms. People can look at me and say, "Well, Plinker is a decent guy, and he carries a gun, so maybe owning a gun isn't such a bad thing after all."

Now, what about those times when the person wants to know if you are carrying right then and there? This person may know you carry as a matter of course, but it is not their God given right to know if you are carrying every moment of the day. If I am queried in that manner, and I do not wish to divulge that I do in fact have a gun with me, I respond in one of the following ways:

"What a question to ask!"

"How can that be any concern to you?"

"Why do you need to know that?" (this one can be risky because they might give you a response requiring followup)

"Would you like to know what color underwear I have on too?"

If the person is persistent, I tell them that it really is none of their business if I have my gun with me at the present time, and at this point concealed means just that.

If someone is going to go completely bananas if they know I have a gun, then I need to know that so I can avoid that person. They are unstable in the very way that they accuse gun owners, and are not good people to be around in the case of trouble, or anything even resembling it.

I could go on and on, but I already have. I am sure there are those who will be horrified, but this practice has served me well in the 17 years in which I have had my CC permit. I have not yet had to shoot anyone, although I have drawn my gun twice in bad situations. Even better, no one has shot me or anyone close to me, or even harmed any of us in any way. And most of my friends are just that - friends who I can trust and know that they can trust me too. Anyone else doesn't matter.
 
ShooterMcGavin:

You've chosen to take advice from anonymous internet folks. If that advice is not working for you, stop following it.

Let those you trust know if you wish. Or, hide it to the point that no one knows (including the doorman checkin' ID's). These are your own choices based on your level of comfort.

When I'm cruisin' down the highway on my Wide Glide, the last thing I want to do is pine over something to the point that I become stressed out as you surely appear to be.

Riding is for relaxing, and fun. Be happy you have the freedom to carry and the lifestyle that affords you the ability to ride. The rest will all work itself out.

bd
 
My take on concealed carry is that it is a very personal decision and really isn't anybody elses business. I've seen too many, mostly young, new CCW'ers that, in my opinion, are carrying for entirely the wrong reasons. They are more interested in appearing "macho" and how can they do that if nobody knows they have a gun? I read post after post about "making" someone that's carrying or being "made", etc, etc. It almost seems that they are playing at some kind of game and want to be discovered so they will look "bad".
Folks, it's a serious responsibilty, it's not a video game.
 
Good post Caimlas, in that it points out the problem of "It's not who you tell, its who they tell."
Click to expand...

+1 on that.

As I've posted before, a friend who knew told a friend of his. Now I don't like this other guy, think he's an ass to be blunt, but harmless and my friend likes him so no biggie.

Then this guy starts greeting me in public places with "Hey Tex, you packin' today?". :banghead::cuss::banghead:

Okay, still an ass but no longer harmless.

So about the third time he pulls that stunt I say out loud "You know, you stop asking me that question and I'll stop wondering if you still wear your girlfriends frilly panties".

So I sort of got my revenge but there were a whole lot of people who suddenly knew that I had a CCW and I sure didn't appreciate that.
 
This is a matter of trust. Of friends, family members, and co-workers, less than a dozen know I carry, including my wife. Some info on some of them:
-One of them also has a CHP, and had been active with me in getting signs taken down at "posted" businesses. Incredibly nice guy.
-One of them is my doctor and a friend. She found out because she was in the living room one day with my wife and I came strolling out of the bedroom without a shirt on and my G26 on my hip (I didn't know she was there). She was more concerned with dinner plans than my gun.
-Three of them were groomsmen in my wedding, so they're seriously close friends and people I'd trust my life to. People I've gone shooting with. People I could give $1,000 cash to, ask them to hold it for a year, and get every cent back.
-Two of them are my wife's parents that saw me on TV (long story) at my CHP class. They laughed about me being the shortest person in the class. Then they asked about wedding plans.
-My older sister saw my NE and UT permits when I tossed her my moneyclip to get money out for something. Her reaction was, "You've had that on all day? I had no idea. Unload it so you can show it to me." It turned into a 15 minute lesson about the 4 rules, how to load and unload a semi-automatic, and how to keep your mouth shut.
 
I am not bashful about people knowing I have a CCW, of course they also know I only carry out of state, NO CCW in Illinois. I talk about the CCW because most people in this state don't even realize 48 states have CCW laws, and certaintly don't know about the non-resident permits available. Educating Illinois residents to what goes on in the rest of the world is in my opinion a big step in getting CCW here. A lot of people know I have non-resident permits but don't necessarily know I carry, which is whenever it is legal. Jim.
 
CCW is between God, the law and you.

The advice provided here on THR is just that, advice. It's not the rule. It's not final. It's not gospel. I believe that personal responsiblity is what makes a man and blaming others is just foolish. Everyone has different experiences and everyone has different takes on life. Choose what's best for your own personal well being.

Currently there are a few of those around me that know that I own a firearm and that's fine. I just don't want to tell the whole world because of "trust" issues.

That's my take.
 
For the most part, my wife is the only one that knows. My son will know, when he's old enough. Other than that, I really don't publicize the information. The only people outside of my direct household that know are blood relatives whose homes I visit. Out of respect for their homes and rules (my grandparents, my mother, my father, etc.) I have asked if it was OK if I carried in their homes.
 
Beyond family and two close friends no one IRL knows I have a carry permit. I don't advertise the fact.

My wife gives me crap sometimes about carrying, but she understands and accepts the reasons I do. She's come a long way since we first got married. While she was raised around shotguns and rifles as her father is a hunter, she has always been leery of handguns. She goes shooting with me every now and then and has started to come around to the idea of getting her own carry permit.
 
You should tell people from whom you would expect tactical support in case SHTF - to distract the BG's attention while you are reaching for your piece, to grab your BUG (from the pocket or SOB) and engage the BG, etc.

miko
 
My wife, my son, my daughter and son-in-law know that I have a CCP. My wife knows that I am seldom unarmed. Other than in the event that I am in an encounter with a LEO, and carrying, no one except me will ever know I am carrying.
 
Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead. - Richard Saunders

Personal Responsibility on whom each of us trusts.
Trust is "interesting".

One can trust a Fiance', the relationship goes south and the wedding canceled, now all the intimate sharing with that "special person" is known by each.
If matters get ugly, the topic of guns will come out.
Folks get ugly when relationships end.
Sometimes all a lady has to say is she is scared, the guy has guns and not real happy the relationship ended.

Marriage, 15 years go by and the relationship ends. 15 years of Trust and Intimate sharing and even more ugly when this relationship ends.
Money, like in finances, homes, car payments, savings plans, kids...folks get nasty, primal and ugly when "survival" is the name of the game.

One of my worst enemies used to be a friendly competitor in Skeet. Heck I assisted in teaching them to shoot a shotgun.

His dad was going through a nasty divorce, his fault, messing with another women. This dad pulled a loaded shotgun on another club member, and I rushed in and knocked him down getting that shotgun out of his hands.

His dad was "upset" and just "went off". These two still hate my guts for that day, we kicked them out of the club.
It has been years since I have heard or seem from these two, still he and his dad said if I was ever caught out, and my back turned, I would pay dearly for that day.

I own and am responsible for assisting that son in learning shotguns, and for taking his dad down, and them knowing I am in the "firearms community".
 
miko said:
You should tell people from whom you would expect tactical support in case SHTF
Click to expand...
+1 :D

Seriously though, I have recently graduated college and live very near campus. I don't advertise the fact that I carry for certain, but if I trust someone enough to be in my house regularly, they will eventually find out that I carry, since I open-carry in my own home most of the time (It's more comfortable a lot of the time).
The reason I don't really keep it a secret is because I know that I wont be living here long-term, since I still live with roommates from class in an townhouse literally a stone's throw away from campus, and because I view it as an opportunity to educate people about firearms and their carry. Most people think I'm breaking the law until I talk to them about it. I have actually gotten two people, one that I know very well, and one that I don't, to apply for CCW permits. One of them was under kind of unfortunate circumstances:

She sees me with my XD45 service in the OWB holster that it comes with in my kitchen making some rice on April 27, 2007 (the day of the VA shooting). She looks at me kind of stunned. I asker her "Are you alright?" She replies that she's fine but wanted to know what was up with "that" pointing at my hip. I told her that nothing was up with it; it was working just fine.

We got into a conversation about the VT shooting, and the story about the professor who held the door closed with his own body. I asked her to imagine if a person taking responsibility for the lives of his students like that was allowed to carry a handgun and recieved training on a non-obligatory level, would he maybe have saved the lives of many? Then I ran her through the idea of any student being able to carry. She was quiet for a little while until she asked, "So how much do one of those cost?"

The next day we went to a local gunstore and ended up deciding on a Taurus PT111. Now she just needs to save a little this summer to pay for the CCW permit, gun, and enough ammo to train with it.

I can assure you though, that when I make a move to live in a 'real' house on my own or with a significant other, the only people that will know are the friends I kept from college and my family (and of course my SO if she exists by then).
 
No Tell

While it's nearly impossible to keep it a secret from everybody...it's probably a good idea to only let a select few in on it. Many reasons for that....first and foremost that some people think it's cute to put you on the spot. Others gain more than a little bravado when in your company, and announce it to anyone who looks at him cross-eyed. "Hey! Don't mess with *us* because *he* has a gun!"...while pointing straight to you. The risk factor goes up with every beer that he's had.

There's always the chance that today's friend/girlfriend is tomorrow's enemy. I dated a woman once who would probably have preferred that I didn't carry, but never really voiced opposition to it. Her 13 year-old son thought it was "Way cool!" when he finally found out...especially when I let him go with us to shoot. However...When the day came that he asked for/demanded something from me that I wouldn't/couldn't provide, he turned on me like a snake. Told his mother that those guns scared him...and that was the reason that he played hookey from school and drank beer stolen from the neighbor's garage refrigerator. The con worked, and we parted company. She told everybody in her family how I'd messed him up, scaring him to death with all those guns.

Small children. Can't count on'em. Kids are subject to say or do anything at any time. They'll pull on the jacket of the person ahead of them in a grocery store checkout line and say: "My daddy has a gun! It's right under his coat!"

While we're on the subject of kids...

Little ones will also grab your coattail and yank vigorously to get your attention when they spot a toy that they want or a certain trendy, targeted-at-kids ice cream flavor. "Daddy! Daddy! I just GOTTA have THAT!!!"

Ask me how I know... :rolleyes:
 
I wouldn't keep it an absolute secrete. If someone asks specifically if I carry I will tell them yes, or if I don't want them to know I will discretely change the subject. Heck, my mom and dad didn't even know I carried until one day they came to visit me; we spent all day doing stuff together and at the end of the day we were sitting one the couch and I took off my holster (gun inside) and put it on the coffee table. They asked what that was and I told them that was a gun and I had been carrying it all day...they were surprised. They said they had no idea I had been carrying that day nor did they know that I even had a CCW. I say the less people who know the better.
 
I asked her to imagine if a person taking responsibility for the lives of his students like that was allowed to carry a handgun and recieved training on a non-obligatory level, would he maybe have saved the lives of many? Then I ran her through the idea of any student being able to carry. She was quiet for a little while until she asked, "So how much do one of those cost?"

The next day we went to a local gunstore and ended up deciding on a Taurus PT111. Now she just needs to save a little this summer to pay for the CCW permit, gun, and enough ammo to train with it.
Click to expand...

She went from total ignorance/rejection to rational position in half an hour on a subject as emotional and serious as this?
Have you any appreciation how rarely that happens!?
Marry her, and buy her a good gun for a wedding gift.:D

miko
 
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