Maybe I should stop carrying a gun...

[ShooterMcGavin]

And no offense, but we shouldn't be here trying to talk you in to figuring it out for yourself.

I agree. I just had a couple less-than-good experiences and sought some advice from others who have good opinions. ...and I thank you for yours.

...that you are bringing a weapon into a facillity full of people with impaired judgement.

Well, you do have a good point.
...and I agree with the other point - beer bottles should be banned from bars too

 

[bulgron]

My friends might not be huge gun fanatics, but I am quite sure they would tolerate my carrying. I have told some of them and they have had no problem with it. They started asking me about it and what I carry.

Another thing about telling everyone, when they want to go eat lunch at a bar... I don't want to be the guy who influences the whole group to decide on another place to eat. Then, some people might start to dislike my carrying.

Ya know ....

It's entirely possible that if you tell your rider friends that you carry, then that will eventually lead to one or more of your friends also carrying, which will then in turn take the social heat off of you come lunch time.

In other words, don't hide it from you friends. In fact, advertise it so as to act as a CCW advocate. I mean, the more the merrier, right?

 

[poor_richard]

I have a group of friends (from my bible study) that like to go to the bar on occasion (usually for a concert or karaoke). I personally don’t care to go to bars (one of the reasons being is that people are disarmed when there), so I often decline their invite. It has nothing to do with me having a CCW. I just prefer not to go to bars. This means that I don’t get to go with them on many occasions. I’m okay with that because I’d rather avoid bars.

When I was younger, I would also engage in “good natured ribbing” with my “friends”. Through experience I learned that much of it wasn’t as “good natured” as I originally thought. Most of the people in my experience thought it was okay to deliver such insults, but weren’t to keen on receiving in kind. Often times it would eventually result in hard feelings on someone’s part. Many people just can’t take what they dish out. While some of this sort of behavior truly is "good natured ribbing", what you described doesn't sound like that at all.

Your friends “gay” comment didn’t even sound like “good natured ribbing” due to her refusal to talk about it. It sounded much more like an admonishment with little to no “good nature”. She was chastising you and didn’t’ even have the decency to discuss it with you. That just sounds disrespectful. I personally try to not treat people in that manner, and I don’t gravitate towards those that do treat people in that manner.

P.S.

Enjoyed your books.

 

[seeker_two]

I don't know what the knife laws are like in WA, but you might consider having a good, legal-length fixed-blade or folder (or TWO) as an alternative. Also, a knife will come in real handy on the bike trails...

Due to my job (working with mentally ill clients), CCW is impossible for me...even keeping a firearm in the truck could be a danger if a client decided to break in (retarded does NOT mean stupid...) This has motivated me to learn alternative weapons and tactics for those times I can't have a gun (or even a knife).

Remember, the REAL weapon is concealed between your ears...

 

[Silvanus]

Do you ride your bike with your friends often? If it's only once in a while, would it be so bad to just take the gun into the bar with you? It's concealed after all...If it's a big gun, you could get a small 2" revolver for those occasions. At least that's what I would do.

 

[cambeul41]

Good point

Blood alcohol is not the total point behind banning guns in bars. The point is that you are bringing a weapon into a facillity full of people with impaired judgement. In bars altercations happen on a daily basis. Since these establishments have such an elevated level of violence, bringing a gun to one of these places would be irresponsible, even if you were totally sober. Why put yourself in a position where you might have to shoot some drunk @ hole who is coming after you with a broken beer bottle because you said "You'd like a heineken" and he thought you said, "I'd like to lick your hiney ken!"? These kinds of situations don't usually come up in restaurants that also happen to serve alcohol. I know they happen, but you are 10 time more likely to get assaulted at Joe's bar than at the Olive Garden.

 

[koja48]

Been divorced twice & am a confirmed bachelor, so I won't attempt to help with the woman woes, however . . . I carry consistently whenever & wherever I can LEGALLY do so. If situations arise when I know carrying won't be feasible, I don't carry . . . or I don't enter into those situations (for example: I don't frequent bars). Inconvenient? It can be; but not nearly as inconvenient as being unarmed & helpless because I quit carrying completely, then became embroiled in a life-threatening event. As for snide comments . . . I developed thick skin long ago & if a "friend" was prone to making such comments on a routine basis (everyone can have an "off" day & open their mouth prior to engaging their brain), I reckon I'd just drop them from the friend list.

 

[hso]

ShooterMcGavin,

Just tell your bike buddies why you can't go to the bar with them. If you feel weird about it you may be "getting weird" about it and that's offputting. Just tell'em that "Guys, ya'll know I carry concealed. I can't go in a bar carrying and I'm sure not going to leave it on the bike. I'm good with anywhere else, but if we're going to the bar I'll just catch ya'll later." Odds are they'll be cool with it.

 

[PennsyPlinker]

I think this thing goes a lot deeper than whether or not you should continue to carry a gun. Obviously that is the apparent focus of the problem, but is it really the problem? I think you need to think long and hard about several questions.

First, why do you carry a gun? Do you really believe that you might need it someday, or are you just carrying it as the thing to do?

Second, and only after you have answered the first to your own satisfaction, is the approval of the people you name as friends more important to you than a particular custom you have adopted - i,e, carrying the gun. You need to ask yourself if these people are really your friends. I do not know, and no one else here knows either. You may not know yourself until you do some real thinking about it. Why do you hang out with them? Do you have common interests beyond the bikes, or is it something convenient to do? Would these people come to your rescue in a time of need? And by that I don't just mean if someone is robbing you. If you were hurt, in trouble, would they be there for you?

What about this woman? Apparently she is not as friendly as you thought. Is she really a friend? Is her companionship more important to you than carrying your gun to protect your life - if indeed that is why you carry it? As far as the dating thing goes, I am like Doc2005. I have been married for 23 years, and have been out of the dating scene for a looonng time. But I can tell you right now, if you are not dating women who share similar beliefs on the important things in life, you are going to be unhappy with your choices in women. Period. Is it worth it? Too many people get married today based on physical attraction or infatuation. They have a couple of children, lose the feeling, get divorced, and then there is another new crop of poorly adjusted kids growing up without the benefit of a two parent family. Don't make that mistake for yourself or for any children you might have.

So it all comes back to, why do you carry a gun, and is it more important to you or less important to you than the people with whom you now associate?

I would say good luck with your decision, but truth be told, I don't really believe in luck.

 

[romma]

I'll say it again! How many victims of rape and murder would have used a gun if they had one during said experience?

 

[Fred Fuller]

But carrying IS gay- http://www.pinkpistols.org/index2.html .

It's also straight, and black, and white, and male, and female, and anything else human you care to mention. No need to be bothered about it.

If you want to carry, carry. And if you don't want to go into a bar with your amigos when you're carrying, tell them why. Either they'll change the venue for lunch, or you can see them on down the road.

I carry a gun everywhere I legally am able, and try not to go places I can't carry. The simple reason I carry all the time is that I haven't figured out how to schedule my emergencies yet. Far as I know, the only way to have a gun when you need one is to have one all the time. YMMV on any of the above of course.

lpl/nc

 

[RubenZ]

Actually I'd probably want to carry more if I could Carry every single place. This thing about not carrying in college sporting events, Bars, etc etc is just crap. You have to worry about where your going, blah blah etc. I think I'm going to do recon and document every place I go to that has a 30.06 sign that way I'm better prepared.

 

[txgho1911]

Some states do not prohibit carry in bars. I am not reading a story every week about a firearm used in a bar fight or altercation. It just doesn’t seem to be happening very often.
A BAC limit while Carrying might be a decent alternative to banning it completely.

GAY
Fear or little member osis is not a label for personal responsibility. Free and freedoms from fear and training your mind to accept the responsibilities are not GAY.
Pink grip panels or pastel blue holsters may be queer or they belong to my wife or daughter.

Your friend is looking for a hard lesson. Hope she doesn’t get hurt finding it.

Otherwise tell your riding buddies and maybe educate a few of them.

 

[Tom Servo]

When I got out of the car, she remarked "I see you have your piece - that's gay". When I said that I would be happy to talk about it, she said "that's just gay, I don't want to talk about it". You will probably suggest that I just find new friends.

That's exactly what I'd suggest.

Sorry to sound harsh, but if I had to choose between staying safe and hanging around with people who use the word "gay" as an adjective, I'd choose staying safe.

(If "that's just gay" is as articulate as they can get, they're probably not my type...)

There are compromises we have to make when we carry. I've been unarmed during a nasty confrontation situation, and it was a real eye-opener. I went to a place where carry was disallowed with a few friends, and while walking back to the car (urban area, underground parking deck at night), we saw two groups of people get into a physical confrontation. The whole mess was between us and where we were parked, and suddenly, that little tube of OC spray didn't feel very reassuring.

Plain fact is, if they want to go to a bar, my friends understand my not wanting to. Of course, most of my friends know I carry. I have friends who don't eat meat, and I respect that. I expect that they'd understand that I carry as a matter of prudence, and if someone wants to crack Dirty Harry jokes or something, they can go pound sand.

 

[Cosmoline]

Actually, staying out of bars (straight ones, anyway) is tactically sound advice for anyone. They're the nexus of a large percentage of idiotic fights, and a fair percentage of even more idiotic killings. Microwbrews are fine, but biker bars are bad mojo whether you're packing or not. If your CCW is keeping you out of them, then it's doing double duty.

 

[Gord]

Erik F has pretty much echoed my own (unspoken, until now) sentiments: if that's the best your friend can do, as far as articulation and politeness, I don't know that I'd want to be associating with her anymore. The analogy to vegetarianism is also apt.

Others have covered pretty well the bar and girlfriend issues. At the end of the day, life is about personal choices, and mine - like many here - is to worry about me and mine, and not about what others think of those choices. Variety is the spice of life.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Your friends “gay” comment didn’t even sound like “good natured ribbing” due to her refusal to talk about it.

I agree, and her unwillingness to talk was the only thing that was really upsetting.

I don't know what the knife laws are like in WA...

Even when I am disarmed by laws, I carry a folding knife and pepper spray. I don't know the knife laws here either (I have read some), but I think they are quite vague. I have had a cop hold onto my knife at a traffic stop and return it to me when he let me go.

I think you need to think long and hard about several questions...

Those were good questions.
I think that the chances of me ever needing a gun to defend myself/others are tiny. However, if I found myself in a situation like that, it would be devistating to be unarmed. I don't like carrying 2 pounds of metal and plastic on my hip, but worse than that is being unprepared when someone's life is at risk.

Many of you have brought up the issue of friendships in this discussion. You are right. The girl was very close to me at one point and now she is a friend who seems to be losing worthiness. The bike friends... Only a small group of them are good friends. Most are just people who ride along with the group. That is why I have not told most of them, and why I suspect that my inability to enter a bar would not influence the whole group.

I honestly could not care less about the insults like "gay" or another word. What I do care about is someone who I thought was a friend, labelling me with a derogatory name and then refusing to hear my side of the story. I do not maintain friendships with people who refuse to talk to me. Having thought that person was a friend for many years, it is a little shocking and upsetting all at once.

I really can't wait to get a smaller gun, so that it is more easily hidden and not such an issue!

Thanks everyone.

 

[JLStorm]

I have always found it funny, ironic, and yet annoying that many of my friends think I am paranoid for always carrying a gun, and yet I cannot think of at least one instance where we were together in a bad part of town or in a situation that made them feel uncomfortable where they did not feel reassured by me saying "yes" when they asked me if I was carrrying my gun.

On the flip side though, those that know me understand that talking badly about my guns is worse than calling my wife a tramp...and its just something that isnt done.

The more I read the OP first post, the more I realize that I would never have a friend that said anything like that to me, even if it was about the shoes I was wearing. When I posted my original response I stating what I say to people I dont know well, not a "friend".

 

[sixgunner455]

You fellas are TOTALLY missing the point. Blood alcohol is not the total point behind banning guns in bars. The point is that you are bringing a weapon into a facillity full of people with impaired judgement. In bars altercations happen on a daily basis. Since these establishments have such an elevated level of violence, bringing a gun to one of these places would be irresponsible, even if you were totally sober. Why put yourself in a position where you might have to shoot some drunk @ hole who is coming after you with a broken beer bottle because you said "You'd like a heineken" and he thought you said, "I'd like to lick your hiney ken!"? These kinds of situations don't usually come up in restaurants that also happen to serve alcohol. I know they happen, but you are 10 time more likely to get assaulted at Joe's bar than at the Olive Garden.

So, instead of shooting a violent person who is intent on harming me with a broken beer bottle, I should let him stab/cut/maim me with it because he is probably drunk and his judgment is impaired? No thanks. I'll take "carry the gun and protect yourself", please.

 

[shooter429]

All too common issues

I can understand where you are coming from cuz it has happened to me. I had to decide if I keep my freedom or some of my friends. I decided the ones that were against RKBA were not my friends after all. You will have to decide that for yourself. As to bars, I just tell everyone I don't drink and don't care to be around a bunch of people who do. Your call. The bike+ holster requires over garments stay on. Perhaps a fanny pack and or hard luggage would help. I carried mine owb or IWB on the bike in the spring and fall and in a fanny pack in the summer.

I am glad to hear that you take the responsibility seriously and put a lot of thought into exercising your freedom. I guess ultimately, you need to do a cost/benefit analysis. Also, it does not have to be an all or nothing thing. Like when people work in jails, or mental hospitals or on airliners. Though they are dangerous places, law forbids us from carrying, so that is when I don't.

Take care and keep up your vigilance

Shooter429

 

[gezzer]

Carry concealed and SHUT UP about it. When it is concealed NO ONE KNOWS. I have carried for over 30 years and have never been made. Being made at times would have gotten me killed or hurt seriously.

Carry it concealed with confidence, forget it is there and others will never notice you are carrying. Note: concealed means it cannot be seen by ANYONE ever.

Your girlfriend with the kid is the one who has the problem about gay's by the way using the term as she did.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Do you conceal a full-size gun? Maybe you are just better at it than I am, or maybe you wear a lot more clothes.

Until I get a much smaller gun (and I am desperately searching), I won't put myself in situations where printing means being arrested or being seriously hurt.

 

[JLStorm]

I conceal a full size USP 45 fine in most situations. I recently got a much smaller pistol that can be used for deep concealment such as IWB, ankle, or pocket carry, and it does make carrying a gun anywhere very easy. It definitely makes a difference.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

ShooterMcGavin,
I'm sorry I can't help you with your problems because most of what I would tell you has already been said. That girl who called you gay for carrying bothered me a lot. She really should have discussed it instead of blowing you off like that.

Now for "being made", I've cured that problem by carrying a J frame revolver in my pocket. No one even knows it's there. (M638 .38 Special +P)

 

[xsquidgator]

Most of what you probably should hear has already been posted in one way or another... I can sympathize, as my choice to carry causes similar conflicts with some friends.

I think "being who I am" or "who you are" is the best course. My friends know I carry but still don't know really the basic facts or mindset about carrying, which occasionally causes an issue when they insist that we go to a bar (i.e. the friends plus my wife and I). If I just cannot get out of going to the bar, I will lock up my CCW first, but, I always make it a point to quitely but firmly say first "I can't go to the bar, can we go to XXX instead?" I don't rub it in their face that I carry (actually my wife does too, but she has a much lower threshold of being willing to put the CCW away), but I'll let them know it's because of the CCW if the subject comes up.

So far it's worked out ok, because we've usually been able to come to an accomodation, and I don't mind accomodating a little to what they want if they're willing to accomodate a little. One thing that helps in FL, don't know if your state laws will allow it, is to stay out of the bar portion of a bar-restaurant.