New .455's from Webley?

[Billy Shears]

Guys, I'd very, very surprised if this is anything but vaporware.

I just can't see a market in a Victorian design (with a horrible trigger) in a marginal caliber, that almost no one makes anymore (the .455 had a reputation as a good stopper, I grant you, but that was back long before the days of modern hollowpoints, and it's such a low velocity round, I highly doubt you could get both expansion and enough penetration to make it competitive with modern defensive ammo).

All the people loudly proclaiming they want one... Well, a lot of people do the same with the Python. The reason Colt doesn't put the Python back into production, however, is that they are all too well aware that most of those people won't actually plunk down the money, not with what Colt would have to charge for such an old, labor-intensive design, so there's a very big difference between the actual, realistic market for something, and what most people say. A lot of those same buyers, if confronted with a brand new Python, priced at what Colt would have to sell it for, will indignantly sniff and claim they can't see any reason to buy one when they can pick one up on the used market at the same price or less. It's easy to say you want something; words cost nothing. When people are actually confronted with an opportunity to buy the thing, and have to weigh whether or not to part with hundreds or thousands of bucks for it, a lot of those supposedly interested buyers will simply melt away.

I'll believe there's a new Webley .455 on the market when they start showing up in my LGS, and not a minute before.

 

[prestpat]

Yet another proposal - The Webley Mark VII from Anderson Wheeler: http://www.andersonwheeler.co.uk/revolver/Mark-VII

Said to be British made AND updated/improved for a .357 chambering! Something tells me this one won't make the $800-1000 price point...

 

[natman]

Yet another proposal - The Webley Mark VII from Anderson Wheeler: http://www.andersonwheeler.co.uk/revolver/Mark-VII

Said to be British made AND updated/improved for a .357 chambering! Something tells me this one won't make the $800-1000 price point...

Should be out by now, yet there's not even a picture of a prototype on the website. A breaktop 357 Magnum, huh? I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Monac]

I just can't see a market in a Victorian design (with a horrible trigger)...

Webley's have horrible triggers? This is news to me. I have owned a Mark IV .380 and a Mark I .455 and I don't recall their triggers being particularly bad, although that was a LONG time ago. What has other peoples experience been?

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

If they make one in 45acp or 357 mag for $800-1000 I might have to pick one up.

They had better have decent triggers and be as reliable as all getout.

Or they will go the way of the Uberti Top break: cool design until you put 50 rounds through it. Then the cylinder won't turn.

 

[Radagast]

I've shot six Mk IVs. Some had great single action breaks, although rather heavy. The double action was effectively unusable for aimed fire.

 

[WestKentucky]

It's always interesting to look at building new versions of a tried and true item. There's usually a pretty good reason not to. Just imagine the cost to build a true 64 impala, 70 Chevelle supersport, farm all super c, or any other iconic item. There's a huge pricetag, and it still "ain't the real deal" as my grandpa tells me about my single actions. Huge cost for antiquated technology that has little or no collectors market kills the thoughts pretty quickly, even quicker still if reproductions will devalue the originals. Ask register thompson owners their opinion on allowing new ones to be made.

For the money, a good used gun can be purchased, repaired and made perfect again. No its not original, but neither is a new one.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I don't see it happening. Why? Global economy is bad and is getting worse. Wait for the derivatives market to crash and then it's over.

 

[rcmodel]

I must be the only naysayer on THR.

But I wouldn't give $1,000 for three new Webley's.

I only bought one back in the 1960's when they were $25.00.

And I got rid of it shortly after for $15.00 or so on a trade for another S&W 1917.

rc

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I have a Mark IV with Victoria Regina era black powder proofs (Queen Victoria ruled to what? 1902?). It was originally .455 Webley but was "cut" by the 1950s importer to take .45 AutoRim or .45 ACP in moon clips.

The Mark V was beefed up for .455 loaded with cordite nitrocellulose by increasing the outside diameter of the cyclinder.

I have shot mine in the past with .45 ACP factory loads with mediocre accuracy and the casings were swollen and hard to resize. I have since restricted shooting to using BP loads with .454" 255gr lead bullets in .45 ACP casings in moon clips. Reloading with the 6 round full moon clips is speedy. The gun still locks tightly with no play.

 

[Ash]

I once owned a .455 Mk VI, original chambering, and it was a fine revolver. It had a great trigger and was very accurate with Fiocchi.

 

[DPris]

I once had a MKVI, it was loose as a goose & had a horrendous trigger.
Denis

 

[Billy Shears]

It's always interesting to look at building new versions of a tried and true item. There's usually a pretty good reason not to. Just imagine the cost to build a true 64 impala, 70 Chevelle supersport, farm all super c, or any other iconic item.

You couldn't do it, never mind the cost. An exact reproduction of a car from that era wouldn't meet modern federal crash safety regulations. Emissions either. I remember back in the 1990s some South African company wanted to make a reproduction of the Titanic and put it into service as a cruise ship. It would only have looked superficially like the Titanic, as not only would a ship from 1912 not be in compliance modern maritime safety laws in a lot of ways, but a lot of the changes necessary to make it so would be highly visible. Add to that the fact that the ship was built with obsolete technology (no one's made riveted hulls since WWII, and all the skilled riveters are dead and gone -- the construction crew would have to relearn the art, at considerable expense; or the ship would have to have a modern, welded hull, and there's yet another departure from originality); and the cost of reproducing the opulent wood paneled interiors (if you can even have that much wood [fire hazard you know] on a modern ship) and other luxurious fittings would also be prohibitive, since skilled labor costs more today than it did a century ago. All of this adds up to make a reproduction of the Titanic cost probably double or more than double what it would take to design and build a modern cruise ship, and the end result would be a not-terribly-close reproduction, for a very limited market, and the ship would never make back its construction costs. No wonder the thing never progressed beyond an article in Popular Mechanics.

Now the cost difference wouldn't be as extreme for a reproduction Webley. Firearms technology hasn't changed as radically as shipbuilding or automotive technology. But it has changed, and older, labor intensive designs that require a lot of hand fitting cost more. It's just a fact of life these days. So a gun of that type is going to carry a higher price tag. And to design such a gun for a limited, niche market like this, one it won't quite fill perfectly, because the purists will react negatively to nearly any change from the original... As I said, I don't see it happening. Or rather, I can see someone trying to bring out such a gun. I don't see the venture succeeding economically.

 

[Stephanie B]

If they did, I'd at least want to see about buying a cylinder assembly to restore the Mk.VI I have that had its cylinder shaved when it was imported after the war.

 

[manchester2]

Fascinating discussion, guys. I've read THR for awhile but this is my first post. I think it's important to remember that what Webley & Scott is considering is a commemorative reproduction. ‎Their goal is not to make the weapon literally identical to those that came out of Birmingham in 1915 in order to impress purists or to bring the weapon up to the ballistic standards of 2015 pistol cartridges in order to compete on the modern revolver market, but simply to remake a classic, in limited numbers, for a short time. ‎
‎
That has to be kept in mind when assessing whether the venture is likely to prove successful. Assuming that they have the original blueprints and machinery, a limited run should be achievable. The Webley Mark VI is an iconic revolver with a large international fan club. ‎My understanding is that W&S developed the idea after seeing an unexpectedly enthusiastic reaction to their creation of the CO2 pistol in Mk VI format.‎ Next year is the 100th anniversary of the Somme. There are a lot of precedents in the gun world to classic pistols being remade for commemorative purposes, and this one is no different -- there's no reason it can't work.
‎
I ‎will be interested to see how they chamber it. The case for keeping it in original .455 is to be historical, but they surely know that the unavailability of this round in North America could dampen purchases. I hope they'll stick with .455 nevertheless. The appearance of this reproduction could drive Fiocchi to produce .455 again in at least limited batches. Perhaps Buffalo Bore could generate a "reimagined" .455 with better performance that can still be used in the break-open frame, much like they did recently for the .38 S&W.
‎
As for the ballistic performance of the‎ .455 cartridge, that's a matter for another discussion. All I'll say to the critics is that you have to judge the round by the context of the times in which it was created. The performance of several sub-variants of this cartridge -- especially the Mk III -- was very impressive. Condemning the round because of how it compares to today's cartridges is silly, especially in the context of a commemorative remake of the revolver. It would be like objecting to a limited-run reproduction of a turn-of-the-century motorcycle on the grounds that it is slower than motorcycles produced in 2015. True, but irrelevant. ‎

 

[.455_Hunter]

The case for keeping it in original .455 is to be historical, but they surely know that the unavailability of this round in North America could dampen purchases. I hope they'll stick with .455 nevertheless. The appearance of this reproduction could drive Fiocchi to produce .455 again in at least limited batches.

Sure- its not a Walmart caliber.

Maybe my LGS is abnormal. As of this past Tuesday, they have about 20 boxes on the shelf at $39.99

Midway is out-of-stock but indicates it a "seasonal run" (like many other rounds), not discontinued.

 

[manchester2]

That's terrific to hear. I have found it very difficult to acquire in Virginia. Fiocchi and Hornady were the two still making it in seasonal runs but Hornady discontinued it in the last year or so. Fiocchi should do a run sometime this year. I have not found a *single* place online that has it in stock, anywhere, since summer of last year. Do you mind me asking who your LGS is?