New Ammo At Wal-Mart ?

[CraigC]

I can't help but the hate is just lingering Cold War Rhetoric.

Doesn't have a thing in the world to do with the Cold War. If it did, I wouldn't use Wolf rimfire ammo, which is actually good stuff. Fortunately, it's not Russian made either but repackaged SK. Like I said, it has everything to do with buying an $800+ rifle and feeding it the cheapest garbage possible that still goes bang. Doesn't matter where it comes from.

 

[bigfatdave]

I found out my XD45 was defective because it choked on a couple rounds of Tula.

grump grump grump

What you learned was that you shouldn't run Tula for self-defense, but running it for practice is about the only way you'll get that XD to malfunction other than mixing in empty cases or snap-caps.
As Tula is cheap ball anyway, it wasn't suitable for serious use in the first place, so you're ahead of the game, you know a bad gun/ammo combination that you didn't in the first place.

The new steel cased .22lr

Still want to know what's up with steel-case .22lr ammo

 

[rfwobbly]

Walmart still sells a lot of brass cased, boxer primed ammo. If you 'feed' your guns like you would a queen then you'll be buying the more expensive stuff. Those of us who would like to shoot more with our dollars and who don't buy into the steel cased hysteria appreciate the option that Walmart gives us.

I can't agree with this logic. While I agree that WalMart CAN offer the cheaper steel cased ammo for the sake of competition.... it is after all an open market... please tell me what happens to the price of ammo when the Russians and Chinese have finally put all the Remingtons and Winchesters out of business ????

Just like foreign cars have decimated the American car industry, foreign ammo will do the same at some time in the future. When I was a kid, there were something like 7 independent American car companies. Now thanks to that kind of short-sighted thinking there are 2. Germany on the other hand, a country smaller than my state of Georgia, has at least 4 viable, independent car makers. Why? Because Germans would rather walk to work than buy a Toyota. They "get it".

The true savings in ammo, if you are truly concerned with PRICE, is found by reloading your own. There are tens of reloading outfits for sale starting as low as $50 and they all pay for themselves within 1 year. If you shoot enough, even a $1500 Dillon 1050 is completely paid for in a single year.

But the whole American ammo scenario, in fact the whole 2A freedom, depends upon having boxer-primed brass, which this steel-cased ammo completely short circuits. So YOU save 6 cents now, to make EVERYONE else (the reloader and the non-reloader) pay through the nose later.

Ahem! Don't look now, but I think you just sold your grandchildren's 2A rights for 6 cents.


Merry Christmas.

 

[Rodman30]

If you are talking about the Tulammo in the black & red boxes it is steel cased but its boxer primed I have a few boxes of the 223 but haven't had a chance to fire any of it yet.

 

[bigfatdave]

please tell me what happens to the price of ammo when the Russians and Chinese have finally put all the Remingtons and Winchesters out of business

What happens when the competition of cheap steelcase isn't there to keep the domestic ammo makers' prices down?
Competition is keeping prices low, both being on the shelf is a good thing, and most guns will run just fine with the steel-case cheap stuff, babying most guns is a waste of time and effort.

 

[Patriotme]

I've shot the Tula ammo in the white box but I haven't shot any of the rebranded stuff that they are calling Tula at Walmart. I talked to a Tula salesman at the last gunshow and they are basically trying to compete against Wolf. Supposedly their quality control is better because all of their ammo is made at the same factory while Wolf is made at a few different locations. Take it for what it's worth.
I've shot about 500 rnds of Tula in .223 recently. I've run it in 3 different AR's without any problems. It is some of the least accurate ammo that I've used but you have to figure out what are you getting it for. Are you putting ammo away for another drought or emergencies? Are you just doing some casual shooting? I like it for training new shooters. I doubt that I'll buy much more of it since the accuracy isn't that great and I can get 55gr Brown Bear for just a little more. I would put the 55gr Brown Bear against most of the cheaper American brands for accuracy and it's usually less than half of the price. If your experiences are different it isn't a personal attack on your favourite ammo it just means that you've had different experiences.
As for steel cased ammo in general....I've been shooting 9mm Silver Bear for years (mainly in a Kimber). No issues whatsoever with function and it's ok plinking ammo. I will say that if you leave in the closet for a couple of years the zinc casing might get some oxidation on it. Whether this is normal with zinc coatings in general is a question for the ammo gurus. One more thing about the Silver Bear. A few years ago I had my downstairs flooded for about 4 hrs. Guess where my ammo was stored? All of my ammo was underwater for several hours and it didn't get wiped down, dried off and repackaged for a couple of days. I had a little bit of everything. WWB, Silver Bear, reloads and Blazer (among others). I tossed all of the .22lr but salvaged everything else. Guess what? I spent the next 6 months or so shooting it all up and only two rnds (Silver Bear 9mm) failed to fire. Pretty much everything from Remington shotgun shells to .40 cal Blazers went bang. I hope I don't ever repeat this test but I was very suprised that almost all of the different brands and calibers that I use can stand up to a decent dunking. (BTW...I was the only one shooting this stuff).
I would prefer brass cased ammo and I usually shoot a mixture of the Russian stuff and whatever is reasonable at Walmart. I'm buying ammo for three shooters and I'd rather have my family at the range (at least) once per month shooting steel cased ammo than I would have them shooting brass cased ammo once per quarter. To each his own.

 

[Old Dog]

Regurgitating bigfatdave's post in the hopes that some will actually read it and try to comprehend. Two good points he makes ...

What happens when the competition of cheap steelcase isn't there to keep the domestic ammo makers' prices down?

Competition is keeping prices low, both being on the shelf is a good thing, and most guns will run just fine with the steel-case cheap stuff, babying most guns is a waste of time and effort.

Hopefully, most here understand basic market principles (it's doubtful indeed that the Russians and Chinese ammo will put Remington and Winchester out of business) and also that a quality firearm should shoot steel-cased cartridges without problems ... Everyone here does know how to clean their firearms, right?

 

[MtnCreek]

The communists believe they are better off to produce (and field) crap in much greater numbers than our quality products (weapons). They then lie about the quality of thier crap. (FYI: All Communists Lie).

Steel cases are harder than brass; they cause chamber erosion.
Steel cases are not reloadable (at least not in any quality manner).
Tree bark is a cheap source of food, but I'll leave that for the communists.
Spending your money on communist products is shameful (IMO).
Please, Do Not Use Cheap Ammo for Defence.

Remington UMC, Federal and Winchester all make a quality plinking round. Your local gun shop may have quality reloads. By American!

 

[Beach Nut]

Yes, it is Tula ammunition, made in Russia. It is good target ammunition
in the revolver calibers. A friend of mine bought some for his Taurus PT92
in 9MM and had quite a few problems (underpowered loads, misfeeds, etc.)
His gun worked fine with two other brands of ammunition he brought so
we chalked that up to bad ammunition. I'd be wary of it in semiauto calibers.

 

[Ky Larry]

I shot some of this Russian steel cased ammo in a Bush Master I owned a few years ago. It shot fine. However,I stupidly made the mistake of shooting a round of Tula in my T/C Contender with the .223 barrel. Case jammed and I had a heck of a time getting the case out. This was probably caused by the tight chamber in my Contender. I wouldn't hesitate to use it for blasting ammo in an AR-type rifle. If your particular rifle doesn't like it, it will tell you.

 

[Spec ops Grunt]

The communists believe they are better off to produce (and field) crap in much greater numbers than our quality products (weapons). They then lie about the quality of thier crap. (FYI: All Communists Lie).

Steel cases are harder than brass; they cause chamber erosion.
Steel cases are not reloadable (at least not in any quality manner).
Tree bark is a cheap source of food, but I'll leave that for the communists.
Spending your money on communist products is shameful (IMO).
Please, Do Not Use Cheap Ammo for Defence.

Remington UMC, Federal and Winchester all make a quality plinking round. Your local gun shop may have quality reloads. By American!

You know only a small minority of Russians are communist, right?


They tend to be the older people.

 

[rfwobbly]

What happens when the competition of cheap steelcase isn't there to keep the domestic ammo makers' prices down? Competition is keeping prices low, both being on the shelf is a good thing, and most guns will run just fine with the steel-case cheap stuff, babying most guns is a waste of time and effort.

Not to belabor this, but I addressed the need for competition. That is NOT what the original post was dealing with.

The original statement was...

Those of us who would like to shoot more with our dollars and who don't buy into the steel cased hysteria appreciate the option that Walmart gives us.

If this statement means 'I'm going to shoot foreign ammo, in whatever form, because it's several cents cheaper', then I'm simply saying: A) that's short-sighted thinking, and B) if you are really serious about saving money then start reloading and save some REAL money. Otherwise the cost issue is simply a smokescreen.

I'm not pro-union by a long shot, but it irks me to no end when consumers tell me they 'must buy foreign' one minute and then complain about vanishing American jobs the next. All I'm saying is that only consumers can/ will bring back American jobs.

 

[barnetmill]

Quote:
new steel cased .22lr
This is new to me, who is making steel-case .22lr rounds?
__________________
If you need me, I'll be in the ANGRYDOME

Steel case .22 from IIRC from china and possibly russian used to be common here. It was with unplated lead projectiles using a greasy lubricant. The pressure was often not enough to seal the case a little gas would come back from my chinese JW15 rifles (Copy of cz452).

Centerfire steel case ammo for me has worked well in glocks, 1911, sigma 9VE pistols. Not recommended for keltec handguns. I have fired a few without trouble in the AR15 with military chamber and have fired chinese 7.62x51 in a polytech m14. Steel ammo also works well in the mosin nagant.

 

[barnetmill]

FRWOBBY "this statement means 'I'm going to shoot foreign ammo, in whatever form, because it's several cents cheaper', then I'm simply saying: A) that's short-sighted thinking, and B) if you are really serious about saving money then start reloading and save some REAL money. Otherwise the cost issue is simply a smokescreen."

For 7.62x39 steel case berdan wolf MC ammo delieved price is: $219- 1,000 rounds.
ONE CASE DELIVERED
That is ~22 cents a round. Please inform me how you can reload more cheaply than that. Include the price of boxer brass (include loss of brass), primers, powder, and projectiles.
By the way AK's love steel case ammo.

 

[possum]

i have shot quite a bit of it through both my ar and my glock 19. It is inexpensive but runs just fine for what i need/ use it for.

 

[Erik M]

After about 500 rounds I have discovered that no matter how much gun snobs hate on russian ammo my DoubleStar keeps blasting away with it just as if I was shooting federal or wwb ammo through it. Not a single misfeed with wolf or tula.

"in fact the whole 2A freedom, depends upon having boxer-primed brass"

I think it might involve a bit more than that.

 

[mustang_steve]

Any armsmaker that voids warranties over steel case ammo is IMO making an inferior firearm and I will not do business with them.

Steel case ammo has been around for decades, long enough that this should be part of the design considerations. Anything less is improper engineering.

 

[bigfatdave]

Steel case ammo has been around for decades, long enough that this should be part of the design considerations.

Now that's a good point.
With the exception if a few lightweight or delicate guns, who the heck has an excuse for making a gun that can't handle common ammunition that's been common since what? The thirties?

 

[Patriotme]

Regurgitating bigfatdave's post in the hopes that some will actually read it and try to comprehend. Two good points he makes ...



Hopefully, most here understand basic market principles (it's doubtful indeed that the Russians and Chinese ammo will put Remington and Winchester out of business) and also that a quality firearm should shoot steel-cased cartridges without problems ... Everyone here does know how to clean their firearms, right?

If Remington and Winchester cannot put out a product that is as accurate as Tula, Wolf and Brown Bear then there is a problem. I have a hard time buying Remington ammo that is twice as costly as Brown Bear and less accurate. I don't want to see any domestic manufacturer go out of business but at the same time I want my money's worth when I buy a product. I will spend more money (within reason) to get more bang for my buck but I'm not willing to throw money away on a mediocre product just because it says "Made In The USA."

 

[Spec ops Grunt]

If this statement means 'I'm going to shoot foreign ammo, in whatever form, because it's several cents cheaper', then I'm simply saying: A) that's short-sighted thinking, and B) if you are really serious about saving money then start reloading and save some REAL money. Otherwise the cost issue is simply a smokescreen.

I'm not pro-union by a long shot, but it irks me to no end when consumers tell me they 'must buy foreign' one minute and then complain about vanishing American jobs the next. All I'm saying is that only consumers can/ will bring back American jobs.

Capitalism isn't a zero-sum game.